Arizona enacts ban on abortions based on gender, race

Arizona enacts ban on abortions based on gender, race

www.reuters.com

Under the new Arizona statute, doctors and other medical professionals would face felony charges if they could be shown to have performed abortions for the purposes of helping parents select their offspring on the basis of gender or race.

(visit the link for the full news article)

As someone who doesn't have a side on the abortion argument, I don't take issue with this at all... I guess i come into the argument at the point where gender of fetus is the reaon for an abortion... I dont have any issue with a woman choosing to end her pregancy because she is not ready for a child, but would find it unprofessional for a doctor to abort based on designer traits.

Though I would like it if someone could tell me of any scenario in which a woman would have a baby of a different race than her?

What's your thoughts on this ATS?

Good? Bad? Indifferent?

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I could not have a child from a different race e.g non - Caucasian
I don't know if abortion based on gender is acceptable though
I was under the impression that you could already select gender in regard to IVF - is that true? and if the egg was already fertilised would it not be a similar argument?

This is just retarded. Doctors will be penalized but not the woman? An abortion is a private matter, with the decision being made by the parent, unless it is a life-threatening emergency. The privacy between doctor and patient is protected by law, and now they are creating a law that blatantly goes against it?

What confuses me the most is that the physicians will be penalized while the person who made the decision is not.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka


As someone who doesn't have a side on the abortion argument, I don't take issue with this at all... I guess i come into the argument at the point where gender of fetus is the reaon for an abortion... I dont have any issue with a woman choosing to end her pregancy because she is not ready for a child, but would find it unprofessional for a doctor to abort based on designer traits.

Doctors don't want to abort anything for any reason other than life-threatening complications. Abortions are decisions made solely by the patients. A doctor can merely recommend for or against it.

Gotta love Arizona.

The world's ending and they're still hung up on abortion and illegal immigration.

What a bunch of silly bastards. May god have mercy on them when they finally wake up.

I don't understand how race would be a mystery to the mother (appart from in the case of rape- God forbid) surely they don't go to the doctors and get a shock when the doctor advises 'Miss, I'm afraid your child is Lithuanian'.

I can understand (but in no way support) how some people would choose to abort based on gender, I mean look at China.

I also sit on the fence on the abortion issue.

I think its sick that they would abort just because the gender was wrong, or the race was different. I understand abortion if the mother would be harmed, or if it was conceived by unwanted circumstances (rape, etc).

But a life is NOT an accessory. Its sick that poeple would abort for those reasons.

reply to post by The Sword


And way to call me a bastard. I find that offensive, and hope you were kidding.

Originally posted by The Sword
Gotta love Arizona.

The world's ending and they're still hung up on abortion and illegal immigration.

What a bunch of silly bastards. May god have mercy on them when they finally wake up.

So, what should they do? Pull their tinfoil hats on and dig nuclear proof bunkers?

Name a state in any nation that is preparing for the apocalypse.

Well.... Sometimes a family has 2 girls already, and want their last to be a boy and vice versa. I don't see a huge issue with it really. Or they only want one of each.

My only question is: is this really enough of an issue for them to pass a law about it? Like, are there really women out aborting babies left and right because they're the wrong sex/color? I thought by the time you could tell (with certainty) what sex the fetus is, it was too far along to abort anyway, and apparent race you can't really hazard a guess at til it's out of the womb? We all thought that my youngest brother looked black on the ultrasound, but the lil chubby monster is whiter than I am. We also thought the second youngest was a girl til he was born, because the doctors said he was a she. Like... I'm a bit baffled.

So uh... is this even an Actual issue, or just more moral conservative bs-ery blowing hot air up our skirts over a nonexistent nonthreat?

Originally posted by chancemusky
reply to post by The Sword

 

And way to call me a bastard. I find that offensive, and hope you were kidding.

Yeah, I'm offended, too. Texas needs to get back on the crazy train or everyone's gonna totally lose respect for our bastards and their shenanigans. There can be only one!!

Ummm...not sure what to think here, but something about this whole thing seems strange to me. They are not banning the actual act of abortion per se, but banning "abortion for certain reasons." But it doesn't seem in practice that this will have any real-world consequences beyond legal wrangling. After all, if a woman did want an abortion for one of those reasons, she could just go to the dr and get one without stating her reasons, right? So in practice I don't see how this law is really going to change anything. Even if somebody want to get an abortion for one of the "illegal reasons," they could just refrain from stating it out loud and who would ever be able to prove anything to the contrary?

Originally posted by DrChuck
This is just retarded. Doctors will be penalized but not the woman? An abortion is a private matter, with the decision being made by the parent, unless it is a life-threatening emergency. The privacy between doctor and patient is protected by law, and now they are creating a law that blatantly goes against it?

What confuses me the most is that the physicians will be penalized while the person who made the decision is not.

We pro-lifers abhor the idea of penalizing women, because we have found that most women who go for abortions are pushed into it. Furthermore, even those that do choose it are hurt by it, physically as well as psychologically. When they come to realize it, they break down. Abortion hurts women. That's punishment enough.

Abortion is only a private matter under judicial opinion. Opinions change.

Originally posted by DrChuck
Doctors don't want to abort anything for any reason other than life-threatening complications. Abortions are decisions made solely by the patients. A doctor can merely recommend for or against it.

Tell that to the many women who have been forced into abortion. Doctors tell women that they won't treat them for certain things, such as cancer, or even a psychological disorder, unless they get an abortion, because the treatment could hurt the baby. Double standard: the treatment may hurt the baby, but abortion will kill the baby. Many women are told by doctors that they must get abortions because prenatal tests show the baby to have some sort of disorder. There are stories of many women fighting these doctors, and most of the time, it turns out that the doctors were wrong, and the baby is perfectly healthy. Many maternity wards even turn these women away because of a prenatal diagnosis.

Originally posted by nithaiah
My only question is: is this really enough of an issue for them to pass a law about it? Like, are there really women out aborting babies left and right because they're the wrong sex/color? I thought by the time you could tell (with certainty) what sex the fetus is, it was too far along to abort anyway, and apparent race you can't really hazard a guess at til it's out of the womb?

This is an issue, especially when it's done by those who came from a male-centered country, such as China. While most women who come from over there don't want the abortions, the men do, and push the women to abort, because they still have the one child idea on their mind, and in their culture, a son is a blessing, and a daughter is a curse. Some (note I said some, not all) Mexican men are the same way: if the child is not a boy, they would rather kill her. There are white men who force their daughters to abort babies of other ethnicities, as well.

Abortion is legal throughout all nine months in the US, you just have to find an abortionist who is willing to do it, and a state that allows it.

What a stupid law. Whats wrong with aborting based on gender or race? The foetus already has no guaranteed right to live under the law, so why these stupid regulations? Either ban abortions, or allow them all for whatever reason. There is no middleground in this matter.

I also cannot see any way how this law would be enforced in practice.

reply to post by MoonChild02

Doctors tell women that they won't treat them for certain things, such as cancer, or even a psychological disorder, unless they get an abortion, because the treatment could hurt the baby. Double standard: the treatment may hurt the baby, but abortion will kill the baby.

Its better to kill the fetus before it develops into thinking and suffering being. Never existing (which is neutral) is better than having a life of suffering (which is bad). Decision which increases overall involuntary suffering compared to alternative is bad and morally wrong. Thus decision to not terminate the fetus which will very probably develop into suffering being in the future is immoral and bad.

Many women are told by doctors that they must get abortions because prenatal tests show the baby to have some sort of disorder. There are stories of many women fighting these doctors, and most of the time, it turns out that the doctors were wrong, and the baby is perfectly healthy.

Do you have any statistics showing that "most of the time, it turns out that the doctors were wrong"?

reply to post by chancemusky


No, I'm not kidding.

What is Arizona waiting for? Just shut up and secede already!

reply to post by MoonChild02


Are you saying that women can't decide on an abortion by themselves?

Typical pro-life argument though. Why don't pro-lifers care about the babies that grow up to be soldiers and die in pointless wars while these fools cheer them on?

Well, this is ridiculous, of course. A woman's body belongs to her and if she wants an abortion, for any reason, she shouldn't have to justify it. And there's no indication that people in AZ are aborting for these reasons anyway.

The second reason this is insanely stupid is that it's just a Republican governor appealing to the far right wing. You know, the ones who say they want smaller government? This is clearly just posturing. Plus, there is NO WAY to enforce this! So, a woman secretly wants a boy and the doc tells her it's a girl. All she has to do is keep it quiet. She can just say that she wants an abortion and not give a reason. Or just make one up.

"This law creates a highly unusual requirement that women state publicly their reason for choosing to terminate a pregnancy -- a private decision they already made with their physician, partner and family," said Bryan Howard, the group's chief executive.

The law contains no explicit provision requiring doctors to ask their patients their reasons for seeking an abortion, nor for patients to disclose such reasons.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell is alive and well in Arizona!

This is the stupidest law! Why can't people mind their own business? I used to love Arizona. I lived there for 15 years. I'm so glad I live in a more reasonable state.

Originally posted by MoonChild02
We pro-lifers abhor the idea of penalizing women

Not the pro-lifers I've talked with. You can find MANY people who would love to put women behind bars for having an abortion.

...because we have found that most women who go for abortions are pushed into it.

Do you have a source on those statistics?

Many women are told by doctors that they must get abortions because prenatal tests show the baby to have some sort of disorder. There are stories of many women fighting these doctors, and most of the time, it turns out that the doctors were wrong, and the baby is perfectly healthy.

You're making quite a few claims here... Anything to back them up?

This is an issue, especially when it's done by those who came from a male-centered country, such as China.

Lots of Chinese people having abortions in AZ. huh?