Socialism. Why not?

Not sure where to put this thread.

I'm not someone who follows politics very closely or even the economy, but it doesn't take a politician or an economist to realize there are some flaws in our government and economy. So forgive me if I appear uninformed.

Obviously we are having issues in these areas, so is there not a solution?

Here's my opinion:
When we live in a world that revolves money and power, there is always going to be those that suffer because of it. Therefore, one can very logically assume that the way to end disharmony within the world and promote equality is to get rid of the ability to obtain power.

Really, that's it. Once you get rid of the power struggle, there is no more struggle, right? So how do we get rid of the ability to obtain power? How do we level the playing field?

As a child, growing up in this capitalist free-market democracy, we have been conditioned to believe that this political-economic way of life is the only acceptable one, and anything else would be detrimental to our comfort zones, so we have accepted these traditions that are now beginning to no longer serve us.

It is prevalent that these styles of government and economy are no longer serving us. Just turn on your T.V. and watch the news, or just surf around within this website, and you will see examples of people in power being dishonest for their own personal agenda, which is always to obtain power by gaining wealth. At the cost of what? Well, human lives for one thing, and also an unfair distribution of wealth that leaves people homeless, jobless, or living below reasonable standards. I hope you can see how these misfortunes are brought about because someone with power is chasing a dollar.

My solution:
Get rid of the dollar. And on more broader terms, get rid of currency. Imagine a world without currency. We still go to work because we know that things need to be done to live as luxuriously as we want to live. Everyone has a job because there is no layoffs due to budget cut backs. There are no budget cut backs because everything is free. Whatever companies need a surplus of, they get because everything they produce is getting used, and there are plenty of resources to provide at LEAST everyone's basic needs. When you walk into a store, you can go in and get whatever you want or in an imperfect socialist economy, at least everything you need. I mean if I could be eating good, and living in a house for free with running water, electricity, and the internet, I would be very content with my lifestyle, wouldn't you? With socialism, these things are guaranteed yours.

Socialism doesn't necessarily mean you have to give up your freedom. We could still democratically vote on socialist policies, and I'm sure there are plenty of resources in this world to more than accommodate at LEAST everyones basic needs and then some. You could still get a job in whatever you want to get a job in, and not only that, you will no longer be pressured into falling into a career just because it pays good. If anything you might even have more free will because you would finally be able to pick a job because you are good at it or because you like it. And why not have multiple trades so that you could offer service in any area that needs your services. I don't know about you, but personally, I like learning, and I would go to school forever if I knew I could have a roof over my head and all those basic needs. But that's just me.

Now that there is no dollar to be chased, there is no one chasing the dollar. Everyone lives equally, there are less wars, and our news channels won't have much else to bitch about and can focus on more productive ideas. Progress under socialism can be seen to move much faster that progress moved when there was economic inequality.

This is more of a rough draft, I'm gonna save this to word. Hopefully I can get some more insightful ideas from your posts and add them to this rough draft for a final draft. Hopefully you readers aren't too conditioned to believe that socialism is not your friend, and maybe we could collectively make a positive difference in our world.

While I very much agree with the main points in your post, I don't think that getting rid of a universal currency is a good idea. Well, the idea is nice, but the consequences of going back to bartering would be more negative than positive, I believe.

Good luck trying to find someone who is going to sell you a pair of jeans in exchange for 15 fish tacos.

Generally, while filled with some very good ideas, I think your post is a little too optimistic.
No unemployment? How about those with no ability to produce the goods that are needed? Say I am a sailor and nobody offers me anything I consider useful in exchange for the fish I've caught. Do I just accept a pair of shoes that don't fit me, so I at least get something out of it? Or do I try to keep the fish until better offers come along and run the risk of ruining and therefore wasting the entire catch?

Edit: Oh, now I see. I misunderstood about the dollar. Still, a little too optimistic. I don't think everyone will keep going to their job because they're "good people". Firemen, teachers, scientists and many others are likely to do it, but what about those who absolutely loathe their job? I'm sure most McDonald's employees, maintenance and cleaning workers, and accountants would rather enjoy their free time than dig through fryer grease, urine puddles and numbers.

reply to post by smithjustinb



"Socialism doesn't necessarily mean you have to give up your freedom"... That's what all the socialist's say before they take away your freedom... The best way to be is Conserve what you have acquired (conservative). Leave everybody else alone (conservative). Give to charity (Humanitarian). Build your community (Libertarian)

You really need to read F.A. Hayek's "The Fatal Conceit".


Edit:

The short answer is because it doesn't work, never has and never will. It was also responsible for the death of 100 million people in the 20th century.

reply to post by wasco2


OK.. Not sure what you're talking about... I'm reading "The Fatal Conceit" right now before the world blows up... I suggest you read Animal Farm by George Orwell...

reply to post by smithjustinb


Try living in a socialist country for a while. Heck, anywhere in the EU would do, don't need to visit Venesuela or Cuba. I'm not being snarky, youngster, but to gain a real perspective, you have to actually experience all the good/bad things that another type of government has to offer.
It's easy to "armchair quarterback" a new type of government. instead, take a year or two and live somewhere different.

You might be surprized and what you find.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Try living in a socialist country for a while. Heck, anywhere in the EU would do, don't need to visit Venesuela or Cuba. I'm not being snarky, youngster, but to gain a real perspective, you have to actually experience all the good/bad things that another type of government has to offer.
It's easy to "armchair quarterback" a new type of government. instead, take a year or two and live somewhere different.

You might be surprized and what you find.

I assume that you're implying that EU countries have implemented more socialist policies and ideas (if that's what you want to call them) which by all means is true. But what's wrong with that? Especially if you look at the continental Nordic States which are (compared to the US) much closer to socialism? The taxes are high, yes. But so are the standard of living, the quality of education and development in general. How is that a bad thing?

reply to post by Whipfather


It's not. I grew up in the UK I am bi-passport. But to gain a true perspective of different cultures one should actually live there and not speculate.

The U.S. has a good amount of socialism already, much of which people like, such as medicare, social security, public schools, a socialized military, etc.

reply to post by smithjustinb


If by socialism, you mean this, then you really need to rethink things.

Vee, the 1984-Style Slave

Originally posted by WhipfatherI assume that you're implying that EU countries have implemented more socialist policies and ideas (if that's what you want to call them) which by all means is true. But what's wrong with that? Especially if you look at the continental Nordic States which are (compared to the US) much closer to socialism? The taxes are high, yes. But so are the standard of living, the quality of education and development in general. How is that a bad thing?

The Nordic states could make anything work. But it's not as good as it used to be, yes? Immigration + the bankers' crimes are tipping things over.

Why? Because what are you going to do when you run out of "Other People's Money?" Print it? Wait a minute.... aren't we already starting to do that under "capitalism?" Where is the reset button.....? Oh, I get it. That is what they want to do....break the system so they can start over with a "new system" ...a "new order" for everybody.

I think when we live in a system that sees the top 1% owning 40% of the wealth in the world and 50% owning only 1% of the wealth, then there is a real problem. I dont know how these figures are going to change in the future, but I cant see the top 1% wanting to give up any of their wealth and in fact they are more likely to increase it.

We're headed there if we don't destroy ourselves first. It's not possible right now (and not really in the form you describe), but we have to prepare for it now anyway. It will become possible when the people have access to advanced technology which redefines (and largely renders obsolete, for that matter) the problems of resource consumption and distribution. When The Diamond Age is real -- and it will be, or something like it -- then we can be free to use and hone our natural, instinctive ability to work together, without the toxic influence of the unnecessary egomaniacs known as "leaders of men" today.

Many, many people at the moment have been duped into believing the human ability to cooperate doesn't exist. They will be along shortly to laugh at my naivete, which will in turn make me smile, because even on a conspiracy website people just don't read very much or very deeply about their own history. But the historical record is clear -- whenever there has been a large general strike, the people have successfully distributed food, medicine and other services without needing to hold any elections or turn to any authorities. That can be the future for all of us -- it really can -- it's just that most of us are still buying the lie that humans are greedy and horrible creatures who need to be controlled for their own good...for now.

reply to post by CosmicCitizen


Still....if they break the system and replace it with socialism then it, too, wont work. They need to change the monetary system - not the political system (except for reforms as to access of special interest groups). What we have isnt perfect but it is the least invidious system,

Originally posted by Th1nker
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

"Socialism doesn't necessarily mean you have to give up your freedom"... That's what all the socialist's say before they take away your freedom... The best way to be is Conserve what you have acquired (conservative). Leave everybody else alone (conservative). Give to charity (Humanitarian). Build your community (Libertarian)

Far, far from building any community, Libertarianism is a death cult in disguise which quite clearly, in its tenets, stands against all communities, societies, civilizations, families and clans. It states, indeed insists, that no one has any obligation to do anything for anybody else. To say the least, I disagree. Human advancement relies entirely on our ability to organize and cooperate, and if we remove the basic ethical compulsion to take care of each other rather than just ourselves, that falls apart.

And I think you are using the word "socialism" in an interesting, modern kind of way where it stands for "extreme government control". I agree that generally, people who want to take your freedom will very carefully explain why you'll be more free without it before they roll out the tanks. But surely you don't think you and your neighbors are going to be out there laying asphalt on the roads and delivering the mail? Privatize, you say? Ever wonder why UPS doesn't deliver all the mail? Because there is no money in it. Some services are essential and unprofitable and always will be.

America LOST the cold war - sex scandal and bribes make manipulation in a capitalist world all too easy; the greedy politicians took the bait and Communist Psy-Ops have been ruling ever since..

Your socialist Animal Farm future won't be too far away..

Originally posted by Th1nker
reply to post by wasco2

 

OK.. Not sure what you're talking about... I'm reading "The Fatal Conceit" right now before the world blows up... I suggest you read Animal Farm by George Orwell...

Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant OP needs to read "The Fatal Conceit". Wouldn't hurt him to read "Animal Farm" either.

reply to post by smithjustinb


You're talking about Star Trek. Which was really utopian communism. Everyone working for the betterment of mankind, or intelligent life. There's also utopian capitalism, which is seemingly where a lot of conservatives stand. The 'free-market' ideology that if a business does bad things then the business will fail.

Utopia's are impossibly attainable with the added human factor. There are 'saints' in this world that would do anything for their fellow man. There are also power hungry elitists who, once obtain power, do anything to keep it. Lenin's Russia was on its way to realizing Marx's true ideals, however, numerous assassination attempts coupled with old age and stress killed Lenin. Stalin, who was a minor player in the revolution but a bully politician assassinated his political adversaries (literally and figuratively) and pushed his way to the top through lies, murder and deciet. Ultimately giving communism a very, very bad name. Stalin's approach was followed by Mao and exacerbated the problems that communism can present.

A healthy democracy is what we, as a species, should always seek. However that provides its own problems in that ideologies can and do clash on a regular basis. American democracy is one of the few democracies in the world that only has two major parties, this has led to extremists voting for moderates and moderates voting for extremists.Ultimately this puts people off from voting and the democratic system suffers because of it. Political party association, at this point, for America, should be excluded from ballots. This time it's utopian democracy that we've been trying to obtain.

Personally, I'm a democratic socialist. I'm democratic because I believe that a republic is the best type of government for the people. The people should have their most accurate representatives on local and national levels. I'm a socialist because I know the species won't survive if we focus specifically on our own desires and individualities, but we must respect those ideals as well.

Socialism, in America, has earned a very bad reputation because of World War II and the Cold War. Americans, in general, have failed to look for improvement in ourselves and our system. Believing that we're somehow perfect because we've lasted as long as we have, all we need is our constitution and we'll be fine. They forget that the same constitution has 27 amendments. 27 things we needed to add to our perfection. Libraries full of laws and regulations that the constitution doesn't even touch on but is dire to our survival as a nation.

You're on the right track, keep looking.

reply to post by links234


I too am a democratic socialist. In fact, I actually joined a group on facebook yesterday called the democratic socialists of america. Its not an official membership, that costs $20. This is new for me, as I was unaware of the group ever existing nor had I heard of a democratic socialist. The group is very small which is unfortunate because I believe democratic socialism is the closest thing to being exactly what America needs right now, and the rest of the world. I am absolutely in favor of a one world government under democratic socialist policies. I wish we could join hands as a planet, and put aside our differences for the betterment of mankind. Its amazing how foolish people really are though. Clinging to their egos, and chasing dreams that lead nowhere. Change is coming I believe.