Emergency Preparedness Plan

I've really enjoyed all your posts. Of course I see the reasoning behind SC and DE's attitude to survival prep. And I agree there's no point in trying to list everything on my list, either.

I really do recommend the FEMA and Red Cross websites. They've got good material.

In all honesty, even in the midst (?) of terrorism, I think the biggest threat to your safety after housefires and crime will probably be from the weather. Some who experienced the landfall of HUGO in homestead Florida can attest to the fact that sheets of plywood and hammers were selling for hundreds a piece at Home Depot after the storm.

The ICC threatened them with fines and a closure of business if they didn't provide low cost plywood, hammers, and generators, in the counties where people had been buried alive in the rubble.

Maybe all of us preparedness nuts would do well to stock up on plywood & hammers.

The second biggest problem will be insurance renegging on you. I had a friend who lost every single thing except a pair of flipflops, a pair of swimming trunks, and a tank top t-shirt. What he was wearing. Hugo washed his home out to sea, along with everything else he owned. His insurance company declared bankruptcy, and he never got a single penny in remittance. He literally started over with nothing but a hot meal in a gymnasium from aid workers. Luckily, a lot of construction jobs had just opened up in the neighborhood(!)

Since I don't really know what to expect, I try to do some preparation for a variety of scenarios, instead of just focusing on role-playing "Red Dawn" or "The Day After." ( But I do include those as well.)

I try to prepare for natural disaster, since it's the most common. Then terror attack, followed by war or insurgency. I think a fascist revolution is not too much of a serious threat, today. But I have some preps in place for that as well.

I really enjoy seeing how the rest of you think.

Well, I thought the lot of us should ressurect this thread. Can we come up with a final list?

DE

I always wondered why people have the urge to bounce from place to place if something like this actually happened. All the excess travel could leave you open to attack.

If it happened tomorrow, I always told myself that I would:

1.) Raid a car dealership, get something where I could pack a lot of supplies in and rugged (Ford F-150)

2.) Raid the nearest Wal-Mart, Target, >Enter name of big supermarket here< And just stock up on supplies and food.

3.) Find a office building and just unload there. Maybe get a few of my friends to live there and just hold it down.

After looking over this thread again, I have made this list. I intend to end up alone or with a group no larger than three, with no electricity or running water.. You must remember that these provisions are meant for a Canadian survivalist, who also would not have trouble finding 90 or so square miles of virgin pine forest to settle in. Unfortunately, this is a wish list.

Self Defence

1.Shutzhund trained German Shepherds- two to five of dogs of mixed sexes, plus feeding utensils for them.

2.Silver Trident

3. Benelli Nova Tactical - Also good for hunting in a pinch.

4. HK USP - 9mm and 45 ACP

5. AK-47 clone

6.Smith and Wesson 686P Revolver

7. My Hanwei Tiger Katana , just in case...

And of course plenty of ammo...

Hunting Supplies

I'm going to be mostly hunting and fishing for sustenance, because places like the Laurentians and Northern Ontario have sport in abundance.

1. Remington 597 SS

2. Compound Bow- Freedom from Pearson

3.BAR Safari, for big game, in 30-06

4.Freeman Exchange-A-Blade , by Gerber

5. Generic fishing rod, + fishing supplies older than I am

Tools/misc

1.Gerber Gator

2.Knife Kit

3.Gerber Multi-purpose saw

4. Generic rope, 500 feet

5. Claw Hammer

6. Sledge Hammer

7. 2-4 tarps

8. One yurt - Quick to set up with minimal preparation, yet infinitely more comfortable than a tent.

9. Proper wood Axe

10. Pots, Pans, and utensils- standard camp kit

11. Russian military winter surplus- It gets cold!

12. Pen and Paper

13. Matches, windproof, strike anywhere

14. Scarf and ski goggles

15. Sunglasses

16. Russian Surplus bags to put all this crap in

17.Sleeping bag

18. Blankets and quilts- for the dogs, padding, or (God forbid) friendly visitors.

19. Generic shovel

20. water barrel

[EDIT]: 21. Booze to clean wounds...and drink.

All this, you could fit into a pick-up or stripped down van, and have room to pack with bags of rice, boullion cubes and other food supplies.

Voila, tell me what you think.

DE

[edit on 28-10-2004 by DeusEx]

For me, the whole thing is a cost/benefit analysis exercise. For instance, you COULD go out and sell everything you own, and buy a bunch of survival paraphenalia. But then that would be sacrificing your present, based on one possible future.

See, I am also into improving my financial situation, and tying up my family's wealth in a lot of equipment we may or may not use seems pretty questionable. If you give me $60,000 or Starchild's original packing list, I will take the 60 G's!

I got a great disaster drill in the form of Y2K. I wanted to prepare for it in a MAJOR way, and Frau Dr. trusted the experts like the techies in my family who said 01/01/200 was not a real issue. But my point was this: "Even if a given possibility is remote, you must plan against it, if the outcomes would be disastrous." This is why we have fire insurance. there is a less than 1% chance of our home burning down; but if it did we would need to start over.

So, the compromise we reached was that I could buy specialized stuff for Y2K, but only out of my rainy day funds. Anything else I wanted would have to be stuff we'd use anyway. Occasionally she brings up the fact that I did all that work for it, and Y2K didn't end our civilization. And I respond with, "yeah, but we did use all the stuff I bought. We used all the firewood I chopped. We used all that toilet paper eventually; you love eating steaks from the gas grill, and the price of gasoline DID go up by 50 cents a gallon---but we drove off of my supply for the first 4 months of 2000.

My point is, not that I was wrong. But that even when I was wrong I still benefitted. I only bought guns I use. Same with my camping equipment. And She really liked the portable shower when the water got cut off because of a line break a couple of years ago. We sold some of the gold ingots (bought at $360 an oz.) when gold hit $415 recently.

One thing I found I think on the FEMA site, is that the govt. says you should have friends you can stay with in two different directions more than 100 miles from your home, and always keep at least half a tank of gas in your vehicles. We have this set up, in three different states now.

I think everyone should be prepared for violence, like the LA riots of '92. But I really don't think that the violence would go on for more than 5 days, particularly if you live in a fairly safe neighborhood. I would argue that the Watts section of LA has been in slow-motion race riot mode since the late 1960's.

In summary.

Two rabbit hunters were out hunting and accidentaly roused an angry bear, which was pursuing them. One hunter stopped to kick off his hiking boots and put on his running shoes. The other hunter said, "But you'll never outrun that bear!" To which the first replied, "I don't have to outrun the bear; I only need to outrun you."

Ok, after months I think it's about time to compile my EPP. I'm going to base my list around the words of John Titor

1.Do not eat or use products from any animal that is fed and eats parts of its own dead.
2.Do not kiss or have intimate relations with anyone you do not know.
3.Learn basic sanitation and water purification.
4.Be comfortable around firearms. Learn to shoot and clean a gun.
5.Get a good first aid kit and learn to use it.
6.Find 5 people within 100 miles that you trust with your life and stay in contact with them.
6.Get a copy of the US Constitution and read it.
7.Eat less.
8.Get a bicycle and two sets of spare tires. Ride it 10 miles a week.
9.Consider what you would bring with you if you had to leave your home in 10 min. and never return.

: ::Chapter 1:: :

Means of Transportation
Ford Super-Duty F-150 - Useful for driving over all the rubble and dead bodies left from whatever bomb or civil war occurred on earth. This is where I will store all of my supplies also.

Foldable Bike - Easy to store. Could come in handy when that Super-Duty runs out of gas or when it's full of bullet holes and I really need to get somewhere quick.

Green and Yellow Chuck Taylors - For when you absolutely need to run for survival. Hey, why not do it in style?

Weapons!
Two Twin Glocks with Laser pointers - I've always wanted to hold two guns with red lasers pointing out at each end. I guess the apocalypse would be the best time to do so.

Sawed Off Shotgun - For those times when you feel like you want to be an absolute Hardas... And why not? Also could come in handy if humans some how genetically turned into Zombies that roamed the earth in search of brains to satisfy their appetite.

M-1917 Machinegun - I would have this mounted right on the hood of my truck just to let everyone know that...yes, that is a 4-foot cannon on my vehicle and yes, if I could find the on button I would make your body wind-resistant.

Generic Sniper Rifle with scope - Don't want to feel left out.

I was just looking back over this thread and was surpised I never mentioned this:

www.fda.gov...&A.htm

www.nukepills.com...

Potassium iodide tablet are only useful against fallout from a radioactive iodine bomb. The strategy is to flood your thyroid system with iodine before your body abosorbs too much of the radioactive isotope.

The reason why this is a consideration is that the Soviet Union used iodine reactors in their radioactive decay research. A lot of their radioactive iodine stockpiles were looted in the soviet collapse, and appeared in the international black market.

I didn't use the company I linked to. I found them on sale at a nutritional foods outlet. Got a 2 week supply for the family for about 25 bucks. I don't need 'em personally; if you're older than 40, odds are even you'll die of old age before you contract cancer of the thyroid.

The tablets could concievably make you thyroxin-dependant for the rest of your life. But that's still better than throat cancer.

anyway, there ya go.

It must live...LIVE! Anyways, this is one of my favorite posts ever.

Does anyone have any additions to the lists provided? Personal lists?

DE

May i ask something? After posting another thread on your firearm laws over there in the US... www.abovetopsecret.com... ....i feel a bit stupid asking this but bearing in mind they seem to let anyone have anything there, are there not laws about having explosives too!? Ok i know not everyone follows every law by the book, but when it comes to the big ones, for example having explosives of that quality, i'd have thought you'd have wanted to keep it a bit quiet?

I'm guessing the answer is of course yes there are, in which case i am a little bemused that someone has listed thier personal arsenal on a public forum. I'm sure anyone with half a brain could find your personal details, including your home address via your details attatched to your ATS registration? In this day and age, i'd have thought when you start shouting about having that kind of explosives on a public forum, i'd also expect a big knock on my door pretty soon.

Starchild, i mean no offence when i ask this either, but is that a piccy of you in your avatar? If so, ignore my post above as it explains a lot!

CX.

[edit on 15/5/06 by CX]

I agree with DE, this is a cracking thread!

Since my earlier, humerous additions to this thread in page 2 I have actually had a slight change of heart. The world is a different place now in 2006 than in 2004 when this post started. I have now moved from London to a northern county of England where I have a few more resources at my disposal. Just the other day I was thinking of putting together a list of items to keep here at home as my 'EPP' plan has now changed.

When I lived in London my plan was always going to be started with a rushed evac with my wife. Now I am firmly ensconsed in the countryside my plan has changed. I'll now be waiting out the 'X' situation at home. This means my plan needs to change by some degree.

Plus sides are that I have much more room to stash the stash, a readily available source of food and water (wild birds, rabbit, hare, deer etc to eat, fresh water stream within 200 yards of my house for water) and now a few more pieces of hardware! Added to my trusty old Winchester 12g O/U and Cogswell & Harrison 12g S/S I now have a 3 shot Beretta 20g pump. No handguns as not allowed here in the UK any more.

Down sides are that I now have a place to defend, rather than going it alone to get hold of what I want, when I want it.

Benjj

Benjj, I'd takea good look at the list Herr Doktor posted. You and him appear to be in simillar straights - relavtively remote locations, fairly well situated. I'm still in the burbs, so I might still have to fight my way out.

Still, looking back to 2004, the world isn't looking any safer.

DE

You should be prepared for anything, no matter where you live, what you do for a living, or how much money you have. You should always acknowledge, and respect, the fact that at any moment, everything you know as your "daily life" has a very high possibility of going "poof"! And what will you do? Will you be ready? That is the question you should want to be able to say "yes" to. It is better to be prepared than unprepared, by far. If you go hiking or camping, you take medical equipment with you, right? Why? Because there is the "possibility" of something happening. This is exactly the same. Why not have the cache and be ready to make your stand like a man!!!

My Gawd, you people with all the guns, what will you do when you run out of ammo?
Then some of these lists are so long that you would never be able to get the stuff to a remote location.

Look at it realistically; too many people are of the mindset to arm themselves to the teeth and fight to take stuff from their neighbors, so the only safe place to be is in the middle of nowhere. If you think that your going to be able to get there by car, truck, or van, I would advise you to think about that again. Every other person in this country has the same idea of driving over other cars with their SUV’s. The roads are going to be a large parking lot, and the second someone panics or gets selfish, they are going to be big shooting allies.

If you know your going to have to bug out, then you need to be able to survive long term with only what you can carry, or carry on a motorcycle. If you’re very good at survival, you can get by with only a good water filter and a knife. If you know how to flint knap you can get by with only the water filter. If you trust that you are good enough to make a water filter on the fly then you can get by with nothing but your brain. See if your not carrying much of anything then they have no reason to attack you to take anything from you, but if your carrying all this fancy expensive equipment, then your making yourself a target. When it comes to a firefight, it’s simply a numbers game, and you’ll most likely lose.

A shotgun may not be a bad idea, but again, its going to run out of ammo at some point. The 22 is the best longevity rifle you can carry. You can put 2000 rounds into a very small area in the bottom of a knapsack. It is also often underestimated in its ability to do damage. Ask any medical person and they will tell you that 22 wounds are often the worst ones as the bullet lacks the energy to exit the body and bounces around in the soft tissue until it stops. There are a number of very small foldable 22 riffles available.

A tent is generally a bad idea. First, it sticks out like a sore thumb to anyone in the area. You really don’t want to be asleep in a tent when someone creeps up on your campsite as the walls of a tent do nothing more then blind you until they attack. Secondly, in many areas in this country there is wildlife that will happily rip into your tent and eat you. You're better off you sleep in a mosquito net covered hammock way up in a tree.

As to a knife, you want a good one, it should be very strong, and hold an edge well. This is not about looks, it’s about functionality. Much of what I see in the lists above is about looks, not about real survival. SOG makes some good knives that I would recommend; Gerber has a nice survival knife though I am not sure about its quality. Either way your looking to spend at least $100 for a decent knife, anything less and it most likely lacks the quality to last and will eventually snap in half. I have an SOG, and a couple of cheaper knifes that I use for light duty.

As to the rest of your gear, I would start by looking into what backpackers use. If you get the right stuff its light, and durable. Everything I use can fit into a 5000 cubic liter backpack, and in truth, half of this stuff is simply comfort items. I do not see any solar power items listed by anyone but the good DR. If you planning of carrying flashlights and such then you need rechargeable batteries, and a solar charger. Hand cranked items also work well as a backup.

Lets see, not much mention of rope above, parachute cord is about the best rope that you can use in a survival situation. It is very light and comes in spools of a couple hundred feet. This cord can usually support about 500lbs per inch. It has almost as many uses as duct tape.

For a water filter there is only one, hands down, the Katadyn Pocket Filter The filter element in this filter is good for 13,000 gallons of water before replacement. That is a gallon a day for 35 years, folks, you cannot beat that for the price. Tablets and bleach just do not have that kind of lasting power. However, I would still recommend filtering through a carbon filter and boiling to be on the safe side. MSR also makes some decent filters that don’t have quite as long of a filter life, but are based on the same type of filter element.

The best things you can carry though is knowledge. I would learn chemistry, botany, flint knapping, bowyer/fletchering, basic electronics, basic medicine, weaving, skinning/tanning, just about anything you can learn will help you in some aspect or another. Especially botany, you would be amazed what you can do with just plants. I recommend the book botany in a day as a good starting point.

As an example knowing plants well enough eliminates your need to have to carry fishing gear…

You can survive without the AK-47’s, your ancestors did it, you just need to learn how.



Edit to add
I guess I should add not to try anything from the link above, as its illegal unless you’re in a life/death survival situation.

[edit on 8/4/2006 by defcon5]

Quote: You can survive without the AK-47’s, your ancestors did it, you just need to learn how.

First of all, let me ask you this, buddy. If you have the resources readily available, why would you not utilize them? Why resort to primitive tactics, when modern age Special Forces tactics could be used? I would rather be overprepared than underprepared, anyday of the week. Why do you think they send in SF teams with enough ammo to take out a freaking small city, when they are only doing recon? Think it through...

Originally posted by StarChild
First of all, let me ask you this, buddy

Buddy?
what did I hit a nerve or something?
Well I guess first, are we talking about real world long term survival?
Or are we talking about short term go on a recon mission and return to a well supplied military base survival?
Or are we talking fantasy, I want to play “Mad Max”, ninja, or whatever survival?

Originally posted by StarChild
If you have the resources readily available, why would you not utilize them?

You ever backpack?
When it comes down to what you need for survival, especially long-term survival, a gun is very low on the list. First, due to its weight, secondly due to the fact you cannot carry an infinite amount of ammo. The best weapon is something that is light and has easy to replenish ammo, like Valhalls breakdown Recurve Bow (Which is ideal as it can fit in a pack, and you can Bowyer up your own ammo), a slingshot, a sling, an Atlatl, a knife, etc. You certainly do not want to be walking around with anything that will make you a target, in case you missed it in my above post.

Rule of Combat #12: Never be near anything expensive or noisy as it draws fire.
Rule of Combat #11: Never look conspicuous as the enemy may be low on ammo.

If there was a CBR attack and you went running the streets in the CBR suit, I don’t care how many guns you have because the terrified crowd has numbers and they are going to tear that suit off of you to try and save themselves.

Police Fact: A knife is considered a lethal weapon from 22 feet…

Why is that? Because that is how many feet a person can cross to get into hand-to-hand range before you can draw, and get off a shot from a gun. Now I know your thinking it does not apply as you have your gun drawn already, right? But in that scenario, you will not just have one guy running at you but maybe 10, maybe a whole mob if you are drawing attention to yourself. Even with an automatic rifle, one of them is going to get you. Especially since you’re so encumbered from carrying all that other crap around.

If you must carry a gun I would make it something that is small, inconspicuous and concealed, certainly not a small arsenal.

If you have nothing that they can take, you will blend right in with the crowd until your out of harms way, and no one is going to give you a second glance.

So I guess to answer your question:

1) Weight.
2) Inability to replace ammo and parts over the long haul.
3) Making a target of yourself.

Originally posted by StarChild
Why resort to primitive tactics, when modern age Special Forces tactics could be used?

Because long term, the expensive stuff will wear out, break, or run out of batteries, parts or ammo. What you going to do when you have to get food and you don’t know how to make a simple Bow and Arrow. I can already hear you thinking, “eh, no problem, I can do that now”. Well the truth is that to make a properly balanced bow from natural materials can take up to a year for a trained person. Even then, they lack reliability in the long hall and can break without warning; however, if you started out with a modern recurve you would have the use of that weapon while you created a couple more to stash.

Special forces tactics are made for short term missions into the field then a return to a base that is supplied by Aircraft/Ship/Truck.

Originally posted by StarChild
I would rather be overprepared than underprepared, anyday of the week

You are unprepared. The number one first order of business in survival, is not about fighting other people. Its WATER, and if you think that if there were a CBR attack, that a box of 100 iodine tablets is going to do crap for you, your mistaken. Iodine will not remove fallout, nor most chemicals from a water supply. Besides this 1 tablet only makes a 1 ltr canteen worth of crappy tasting water. You need over a gallon a day to survive. You do the math on how long that will last you?

How long your weapons fancy scopes going to run if you cannot get batteries for them? What if there is EMP, will the batteries loose their charge?

I can go on like this all day, but I would hope you can see that your list is more about looking snazzy, then real survival.

Originally posted by StarChild
Why do you think they send in SF teams with enough ammo to take out a freaking small city, when they are only doing recon?

Because after their mission in the field they are either helo-ed out to a re-supplied base of operation, or they are airdropped supplies as they need them. Neither of these are going to be available to you in a real survival situation. This is what tells me this is about a fantasy thing, not real survival. You think there is going to be much call for taking out a small city if some disaster happens? Even then they are not going up against the shear numbers of people that you will face if you stay in a city after a disaster, especially if you start drawing attention to yourself.

Originally posted by StarChild
Think it through...

I think I have…
I don’t think you have from a serious stand point. The way to go is to learn how to survive with nothing, learn to backpack and live on only what you need for an extended period of time. Then see how much chaff you can cut from that robo-soldier list of stuff.


[edit on 8/19/2006 by defcon5]

I'm going to have to sit between the two of you as far as this is concerned. While SC is vastly OVERARMED, Defcon is vastly UNDERARMED. Let me ask you this- if a crowd sees that bow you're lugging around, are they gonna want it? Yes. That big, tall backpack full of goodies? For sure. As far as defending my ass goes, I'll take a gun over a bow, thank you.

Yeah, it's heavy. Yeah, it's obvious. But a battle rifle is a fairly large deterent. And unless you're in the middle of nowhere, you're going to havve to make your way out of the city or burbs, in which case you will in all odds come up against some form of human unpleasantness.

The ideal would to have most of your sustainment gear (yurt, foodstuffs, seeds, bow, etc) cached somewhere about twenty day's hike from where you are. Maybe less, maybe more. remember- a lot of other people are going to be headed for ground, and out into the country like you are. You want to be far enough so that if a few folks with battle rifles comes hunting, they don't find you, cap you, and take your possessions.

Twenty days is my basis, simply because from where I lived to my grandparent's cottage two car-hours north of nowhere was about that, through disgustingly harsh terrain. It's a solid buffer zone. And expect to hike, because we all remember the parking lots leading out of Nawlins. What happens when no one comes to help those folks?

Alright, back to basics. My list is undergoing yet another revision. But the idea would to have a cache to head to, and only carry what it takes to get there- mostly in firepower. All the delicious food in the world won't help you if some piece of trash caps you for it.

Also, for bows...a lot of the wildlife where I'm heading isn't so quaint as to fall over and die from a shaft or five. One arrow won't even faze a moose (which can weigh upwards of half a metric ton...like a Japanese sedan. Would you trust an arrow to stop a Japanese sedan?). Getting close enough to put an arrow in a bear seems like stupidity to me. Elk, whitetail...maybe. But don't quit your day job.

Def, I have to ask...are you in a city or the burbs? If you are, how do you plan to make it out with only a sidearm?

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
I'm going to have to sit between the two of you as far as this is concerned. While SC is vastly OVERARMED, Defcon is vastly UNDERARMED.

In my defense I did say that a shotgun, preferably sawed off, a breakdown 22 rifle, or a pistol would not be a bad thing. The thing is to make it something that is light, concealable, reliable, durable, easy to maintain, and fairly common to find parts for.

Originally posted by DeusEx
if a crowd sees that bow you're lugging around, are they gonna want it

If you notice I was very precise in what type of bow I mentioned. Specifically a BreakDown Recurve Bow. There is a reason I chose this one, as it is not the best hunting bow in the world, and it lacks the power of a compound bow. A breakdown Recurve has removable limbs and can be packed INSIDE a backpack quite easily until you’re out of the city and want to attach it to your pack so you can grab it if you cross some game.

The reason that its better to use a Recurve bow then a Compound bow for survival, is that you can craft your own arrows out of wood. A Compound bow would shatter a wooden arrow from the flex of the arrow shaft at the time that it is launched. Also it is possible, due to the lower tension on a Recurve, to make a new string out of three of four strands of Indian hemp (Dogsbane), which would not be strong enough for the weight of a Compound bow.

Originally posted by DeusEx
That big, tall backpack full of goodies?

In any disaster in which people are leaving the area, there are going to be a lot of people on foot with some form of baggage. I would blend right in with a very normal looking hikers backpack. If need be a concealed small caliber pistol would suit any possible protection needs I have just fine especially if it’s the same caliber as a small hunting breakdown rifle and they can share ammo. If I chose not to use my actual hiking pack I would use a simple army style duffle bag that can be double strapped and carried just like an interior frame pack, Or I can put my good pack inside the duffel until lout of sight, either of these methods are not going to draw much attention and no one is going to want to rob me for what they perceive is a bag of clothing.

But just to be totally honest, if there is a group that decides that they want to take what I have, no matter if I have a bazooka on me or nothing at all they are going to out number me and take my stuff. The only two things that I even truly feel that I need are a water filter and a good knife, I can easily conceal those two small items on my person so that even if they took my bag I would still have them. I stand a far better chance of getting killed on the spot if I put up a big fight with serious firepower. The more I fight the more they are going to think I have something on me worth fighting to protect.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Yeah, it's heavy. Yeah, it's obvious. But a battle rifle is a fairly large deterent. And unless you're in the middle of nowhere

Unfortunately, in a mob mentality they will swarm you if they want your stuff. Some folks are going to be throwing rocks and whatever debris they can find at you to keep you from getting off a decent shot, while the rest are going to close in and mob you.

Originally posted by DeusEx
The ideal would to have most of your sustainment gear (yurt, foodstuffs, seeds, bow, etc) cached somewhere about twenty day's hike from where you are.

I have thought about this one myself. It is a comforting thought that there is safe stuff out there waiting for you to get to it. You also get a chance to pick out a decent area to try and survive in advance. Unfortunately, there are downsides to this plan as well. There is the chance that an animal or a person is going to get into your stash and it’s going to be damaged or gone when you get to it. As a matter of fact I recall seeing a thread here about someone that found a stash in the last year.

To make matters worse, depending on what the circumstances are, you will not know what type of condition that the area of your stash is in. If it’s a WMD disaster, then is it in the fallout pattern, if its weather is the area flooded, and so on. Has someone else beat you to the area and decided to move in ahead of you. What if the situation is such that you must continue to be on the move and cannot keep returning to the area. I can think of a thousand more reasons that its better to get good at being mobile and depending on as little as possible.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Def, I have to ask...are you in a city or the burbs? If you are, how do you plan to make it out with only a sidearm?

I am in the suburbs of a medium sized city, but I am closer to some more desolate areas then I used to be. Unfortunately there are very few highways in this area and they would immediately become useless to try and leave on, as has been proven in countless hurricane evacuations. So I would have to say that is situationally dependant.

If there was a full out war with a major superpower, I am right outside the predicted blast pattern of McDill AFB, and downwind from the projected fallout patterns. So I would most likely get a lethal dose pretty rapidly. If I was at home I would have to try and make my way north, if I were at work south would be the fastest way out of the pattern.

If it’s a virus thing, then working in medicine, I would stand a good chance of being in the first wave of people that got the illness. So that is a bad scenario for me as well.

However, in any other circumstance I have a more unique way to get either south or north of my position without encountering too many other people. Lets just say I can be IN the Gulf in a little under an hour…
Most likely no people, and I highly doubt any traffic…
If you catch my DRIFT...

However if for some reason I have to hoof it, I can easily do that as well, using the equipment I have collected for backpacking and camping. Gear that I actually can use in the interim, and has proven itself over time so far. Since I actually use this stuff regularly, I know what works and what I am still shopping around for better stuff on. There is no better way to prepare then to actually get out there and spend time in the field to refine your equipment and methods. If its absolutely necessary I am fairly confidant that I will have little trouble even without my gear, though its considerably less comfortable, and I am not as 100% up on everything as I would like to be yet.



[edit on 8/19/2006 by defcon5]

The mob mentality can best be avoided by being on the bounce, and you know it. Alert, quiet, and continuously moving. Why do you think that every list I posted had dogs? I mean, yeh, they're spread out over ATS, but I know that two to four large, mean, well-trained dogs would definitely discourage a lot of people, act as a mobile alarm system, and will be loyal to me beyond any shadow of a doubt, ever. Ever seen a police dog training? Scary stuff. Anyone who's been in front of a German Shepherd that's snarling and being aggressive will agree with me that it's scarier than all holy hell.

The point of the backpack jibe was this: If you look even remotely prepared, someone else WILL be easting your food by day's end!

Like I said, I plan on carrying enough rats to get me where I'm going, and any spare room will be iodine pills and ammo. I intend to be on the bounce, right away. Even if I buy the farm, I'm going to sell myself so dearly the man munching on my rats will die the next day from the wounds I've dealt him.

If it's a WMD issue, well, we're all screwed, aren't we? But we can live out our irradiated life in a quaint manner, without further suffering. FOr the record, I'm north of new york state, which it appears will be obliterated by any co-ordinated attack by another country. We're all screwed, each and every one, if nuclear war happens. Best of luck if it does, hopefully we'll all be out before we end up rad casualties.

As for caching...well, a pipe or chest or whatever buried in Northern Ontario or the Laurentians will be pretty hard to sniff up unless you know exactly what you're looking for, or so I hope.

DE

DEFCON5, A fold-up bow and arrow? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. The world is ending, # is going down, people are insane and will do whatever it takes to survive, you gotta high-tail it out in the boonies for god knows how long, and you are carrying a backpack, .22 cal, and a bow? Good luck on that one!!! You'll probably get your ass kicked, and have all your # taken before you even get out of the city.

That's why I hold the high ground, and have all my supplies on my land. I don't have to go anywhere, and if anyone comes and tries to mess with me, well, they're in for a BIG surprise, aren't they?
Let me think...
Sniper rifle VS bow and arrow. Hmmm...
Motion sensors and CCTV VS bumbling idiot trampling through the woods. Hmmm...
Not to mention the fact that my property is about 50 miles from the nearest trace of civilization, surrounded by cliffs and a river, and in order to reach it, you would have to either come in the entrance, or drop out of the sky by parachute or chopper, and that ain't happening, so the entrance is the only way in. And once you enter my property, you'd be lucky to leave with all your gear, unless you are some hot chic with her friends looking for a place to stay, then my door is always open. You can stay as long as you like.

Oh, by the way. What you said about hitting nerves? How about the cerebral cortex at 1000 meters? Think you can do that with a bow or .22? I don't think so...

Do yourself a favor, buy some land up Northwest when you move out of your parent's house. It'll pay off in the long run, believe me.

Originally posted by StarChild
DEFCON5,

A fold-up bow and arrow?

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

Lets see first off I said a break-down recurve bow, not a folding bow of any sort. Break-downs are quite common and pretty good bows for the most part.

Originally posted by StarChild
The world is ending, # is going down, people are insane and will do whatever it takes to survive, you gotta high-tail it out in the boonies for god knows how long, and you are carrying a backpack, .22 cal, and a bow?

Good luck on that one!!!

You'll probably get your ass kicked, and have all your # taken before you even get out of the city.

Well again, the idea is to not ATTRACT undue attention, which is the opposite philosophy that you seem to have. You are going to attract the attention of everyone in a 100 mile radios and use up all that fancy ammo within a short period of time.

Originally posted by StarChild
That's why I hold the high ground, and have all my supplies on my land. I don't have to go anywhere, and if anyone comes and tries to mess with me, well, they're in for a BIG surprise, aren't they?

Well that is great for you, but I prefer to be mobile, what if your little track of land ends up being in a fallout pattern and you have to ditch the area? What if your place ends up under water?

Originally posted by StarChild
Let me think...
Sniper rifle VS bow and arrow. Hmmm...

How about bow vs. gun that is out of ammo from having to fend off the first 100 people that tried to get your stuff….

Originally posted by StarChild
Oh, by the way. What you said about hitting nerves? How about the cerebral cortex at 1000 meters? Think you can do that with a bow or .22?

Someone that is 1000meters away from me is really not a threat to me to begin with. Besides they would have to locate me first you cannot shoot what is not drawing any attention to it self and passes by unnoticed.

Originally posted by StarChild
Do yourself a favor, buy some land up Northwest when you move out of your parent's house. It'll pay off in the long run, believe me.

Besides being an untrue remark, this is a totally inappropriate one. If anyone in this conversation is acting like a kiddy that is still living at home dreaming of some “Mad Max” scenario its not me. I am a professional person that has lived on his own for the last 15 years, and needs to work within the proximity of civilization to be able to continue his career. I would love to go live in the woods 24/7 like “Grizzly Adams”, but right at the moment that is just not a possibility due to career responsibilities.

The fact that you seem oblivious to responsibility and are telling me to just up and move into the middle of nowhere tells me a lot about you, as adults with responsibilities do not tend to think this way.

I also have no desire to go live in the north again as I have been there, and left that area. If you ever look at the predicted fallout patterns for the eventuality of a war, you have a lot bigger chance to have to bug out then most people. You see most of our bomber bases and silos are in the north so the missiles and bombers can fly the polar route to Russia, not to mention most command bunkers and industrial targets as well. Many of those area’s, especially the Dakotas, are marked to be saturation bombed to dig out the silos, and the fallout will travel eastward from there.

Edit to add
Oh, one more thing, in order to beat my bow with your gun, you would have to be alive. Since you have decided to spend a small fortune on guns and ammo, instead of the first order of survival, all I have to do is wait until you have either drunk fallout (which iodine does not filter out) or run out of iodine pills and I could just walk in a take your fancy weapons with no resistance. This once again tells me you know little about real survival.


[edit on 8/31/2006 by defcon5]