Helena Blavatsky & the figure of Baphomet

Have a read of the Secret Doctrine and you'll know exactly what I mean.
I find it highly disturbing the way this Masonic Lite character broadly puts forward notions that display complete ignorance to the actual material in question whilst claiming to be an expert in all matters Masonic, yet willl in the same thread insist things like Blavatsky was in now way connected with Freemasonry, Nazis etc...
The Nazi's took a great deal of material from her works, they also had their own ritualistic parades and decorations which were essentially occult paganistic in origin and the whole country was effectively one big mind control cult.
You don't have to take my word for it, there are hundreds of books on the subject along with more than one or two documentaries.
Its even a popular theme in modern cinema blockbusters like Raiders or the Lost Ark and HellBoy.

Originally posted by MrNECROS

Its even a popular theme in modern cinema blockbusters like Raiders or the Lost Ark and HellBoy.

If you want to get your history from Raiders of the Lost Ark and Hellboy (which no doubt qualifies you as a historical expert), you're free to do so.
But some of us are more content to receive historical knowledge from actual historians.

Anyone interested in the history of the Nazi regime and its ideology are recommended to read Hitler's Mein Kampf (which is available for online reading), as well as "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William L. Shirer, which is considered the definitive work on the history of Nazi Germany.

Here is a link to an article about a connection between nazi ideology and mysticism. Theosophy plays a minor role here tho, and the coincidence of using a swatsticka in both groups is a very weak connection indeed. However I think people interested in this sort of thing will find the article useful

www.helsinki.fi...

"Before Hitler came: Thule Society and Germanen Orden Reginald H. Phelps LATE IN 1933, several months after the establishment of the National Socialist regime, a book appeared in M�nich with the exciting title Bevor Hitler kam: Urkundliches aus der Fruhzeit der nationalsozialistischen Bewegung von Rudolf von Sebottendorff. l It was dedicated to the memory of seven members of the Thule Society (Thule Gesellschaft) who were killed by the Reds as .'hostages" in M�nich on April 30, 1919, the day before the entrance into the city of White troops supporting the Bavarian government, then temporarily exiled in Bamberg. It combined details of its author's activities in Bavaria during the war and the revolution with an account of the Thule's history. Its principal thesis was summarized by Sebottendorff in the preface: "Thule members were the people to whom Hitler first turned, and who first allied themselves with Hitler! "The armament (R�stung) of the coming F�hrer consisted-besides the Thule itself-of the Deutscher Arbeiterverein, founded in the Thule by Brother Karl Harrer at M�nich, and the Deutsch- Sozialistische Partei, headed there by Hans Georg Grassinger, whose organ was the M�nchener Beobachter, later V�lkischer Beobachter. From these three sources Hitler created the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei."2 The book must have aroused lively interest, for a second edition appeared early in 1934.3 And well it might, considering the mass of information it contained about the myth-encrusted early days of the counterrevolution in M�nich (though not about Hitler personally). Its contents did not at all suit the official view, deriving from Mein Kampf that national socialism was essentially Hitlers own creation. On March I, 1934 the Bavarian political police sent a brief note to the publisher that the book was banned and confiscated because it was misusing Hitlers name for profit and contained inaccuracies derogatory to leading National Socialists"

The article is interesting, but contains several errors. I have previously acknowledged that several early members of the Nazi Party were involved in the Thule Society, but the article's claim that Hitler allied himself with Thule is not correct.

Hitler was never a member of the Thule Society; the highest ranking member of the Nazi Party that was a member of the Thule Society was Rudolf Hess, and he had joined Thule long after it was transformed into a right wing political association. Even though originally Thule was viewed as an occult organization, its teachings were not actually occult (as defined by occultists) but instead relied on Nordic and Germanic myth cycles, along with anti-Semitism. It was never connected with Blavatsky's teachings or the Theosophical Society; indeed, the Nazis banned the Theosophical Society and burned Blavatsky's books.

The Nazi Party was originally a moderate socialist party, but became radical in its anti-Semitism and anti-Bolshevism. This radicalism increased when Hitler joined the Party and assumed its leadership, causing many of its moderate members to resign. This indicates that the Party's ideology was instituted primarily by Adolf Hitler, who indoctrinated himself not through Blavatsky, but through his reading of German nationalistic, anti-liberal, anti-socialist, and anti-Semitic material while he lived in Vienna.

Actually, the Swastika is of Aryan origin. Actually, indo European origin.

The Aryans and thier language of Sanskrit are both Indo European in origin. The Aryans were but one tribe of the Indo European people who long ago inhabited the area of the Caucasious mountains and the Black Sea and Ukrainian steppes. When flooding in the Danubian basin occured thousands of years ago, they were forced to migrate. The Aryan tribes went in and invaded Iran, Afghanistan, and Northern India. The other Indo European tribes, the Latins, the greeks, the Slavs, the Celts, the Germanics, all went west into Asia Minor and Europe.

Sotechnically, the Europeans are distant cousins of the Aryans. The Germans themselves are not the Aryan race, the Aryan race, as a distinct entity,m disappeared long ago through intermarriage with local peoples, islamic and Mongol conquests. Sometimes, In Northern India, you see amongst the Highest Caste, the Brahmins, people who look very European and not typical Indian.

This is because the caste system, which was Sanskrit for color, was a system of segregation, segrgating the Caucasian Aryans into the hgiher castes from the lower Dravidian native castes. Eventually, this system broke down, and you have the current peoples of India today.

Thus, the Indians are distant cousins of the Europeans. The Europeans, who were spared the brunt of Muslim invasions and other foreigners, generally retained thier identity as Indo European.

Sanskrit is the mother language for all Indo European languages, such as Russian, Latin, German, French, English, Gaelic, ect.

Also, Buddha himself was believed to be an Aryan prince who grew weary of his rich, cozy life, and sought a deeper meaning. he renounced his wealth, went and meditated under a tree to find truth and enlightenment. He carried certain symbols of his people with him, hence the Swastika. Thus, tis link to Buddism.

my two cents tho .

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The article is interesting, but contains several errors [amoung others]
Hitler was never a member of the Thule Society

Oh yes, I don't doubt that there are problems with this article. It does seem rather strange tho that the Thulists would claim hitler as a member if he wasn't one tho. However, I think Thule wasn't a secret society, or that at least the membership logs have been retreived.

Then a little elf whispered
Actually, the Swastika is of Aryan origin

Well, the symbol is a very widespread one. The proto-indo-europeans may have used it. Of course, its entirely possible that its older than any IE speaking peoples too. I have actually heard that the shape is actually a sort of standard pattern easily picked up by the human eye, hence its universal appeal. Perhaps 'appeal' is the wrong word, but almost everyone has a strong reaction to it, even if its in an eastern religions context.

the aelfling also said
Sanskrit is the mother language for all Indo European languages

Sanskrit, while extremely old, is not the mother language for all other IE languages. There is a reconstructed language called 'Proto-Indo-European' that takes the place as the 'root' of the IE family of languages. Sanskrit is an ancient and venerable branch on that tree, but not the root or trunk.

and then
The other Indo European tribes

This is going to sound like nitpicking. At least it did to me when people would say it to me. But I think its necessary. There are no 'IE' tribes or 'people'. There isn't a 'IE' history with IE kings and battles and the like. IE is a linguistic group, and only has a linguistic reality. PIE is perhaps more of what one thinks of as conforming to an ethnicity or tribe or people, perhaps. I've actually had a similar discussion wrt "Germans", in that there are 'germans' (citizens of the socio-political entity called 'germany') and 'Germanic Speaking Peoples'. Perhaps it not a terribly tremendous disctintion tho.

on buddha
Buddha himself was believed to be an Aryan prince who grew weary of his rich, cozy life, and sought a deeper meaning

He also abandoned his wife and children. Not trying to bash 'im, I just wonder how some rich kid who's daddy paid for everything would be perceived if he left his wife and children to live in the woods.

that masonic guy (wait, isn't he the 'fake' mason?ah well)
Even though originally Thule was viewed as an occult organization, its teachings were not actually occult (as defined by occultists) but instead relied on Nordic and Germanic myth cycles, along with anti-Semitism

I think that they were also very much interested in what was going on in terms of WWI and what would happen afterwards. They remind me a little of the SA, preparing for a sort of underground paramilitary movement.

As far as I'm aware the Theosophical Society was not banned outright in Nazi Germany, but all clubs and societies had to make amendments in order to incorperate Nazi oaths of allegience, some like the Freemasons were relatively unchanged in there format although they took the name "The Fredrick The Great Society" (The name of the founder of modern Germany and German Freemasonry) to distinguish themselves from "irrregular" foreign lodges which were banned outright.
During the self destruct phase of the Third Richt Hitler turned upon his roots because they had failed him and hence there are a lot of events during the last 12 months that seem at odds with his earlier policies.
But the fact remains that his copies of Isis Unveiled and The Secret Doctrine were always with him, a copy of the later was recovered from his suicide bunker.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
As far as I'm aware the Theosophical Society was not banned outright in Nazi Germany, but all clubs and societies had to make amendments in order to incorperate Nazi oaths of allegience, some like the Freemasons were relatively unchanged in there format although they took the name "The Fredrick The Great Society" (The name of the founder of modern Germany and German Freemasonry) to distinguish themselves from "irrregular" foreign lodges which were banned outright.

There's your problem. You no doubt got this information from the Freemasonry Watch website (which makes this claim), instead of competent historical authority.

The Christian Order of Frederick the Great was not Freemasonry, and Masons certainly were not allowed to join it. It was a Nazi fraternity composed of anti-Masons. It had an initiation ritual which purportedly glorified ancient Nordic myths and legends.

This Order was originally promulgated by the Nazis early in their reign as an effort to stamp out Freemasonry. It was similar to the Knights of Columbus in the US, where the Roman Catholic clergy invented a new fraternal order in order to keep their faithful out of the Lodge. This was the reasoning in the Nazis' founding the Christian Order of Frederick the Great. Once Freemasonry was officially outlawed, there was no need to continue the campaign. Although in the early years, the Nazis attempted to coax Masons into leaving the Lodge in order to join the Frederick the Great Society, once they had established their dictatorship, they simply put them in concentration camps.

Secondly, Frederick the Great, was not the founder of Freemasonry in Germany. Frederick, who was king of Prussia, became a Mason long after Freemasonry had been well established in the German states. Also, contrary to the name of the Nazi anti-Masonic fraternity, Frederick was not a Christian, but was a Deist, and was a close friend of Voltaire, who spent several years as a member of Frederick's court. Frederick was also the first Prussian monarch to grant full equal rights to the Jewish and Muslim minorities, a fact which was censored by the Nazi propaganda machine who instead glorified Frederick's status as a heroic soldier.

Fiat Lvx.

when do you want to start telling the truth masonic light, your doing the equivalent of saying bush rules america, might work in 50 years as long as there isnt anyone about to put you in place, but bush just like hitler did not rule you want to look closer to home if you want to know what occult groups rule.

[edit on 11-8-2004 by ThePunisher]

Originally posted by ThePunisher
when do you want to start telling the truth masonic light, your doing the equivalent of saying bush rules america, might work in 50 years as long as there isnt anyone about to put you in place, but bush just like hitler did not rule you want to look closer to home if you want to know what occult groups rule.

Care to enlighten us on what the hell you're talking about? Heh, I'm no fan of Mr. Necros, but at least he addresses me in English!

everything is totally controlled by secret societies and there bosses the elite occult families, just as ww2 was all by design, you people are funny you know its no accident over 90%+ of your presidents are of just 2 royal bloodlines, just as bush and his cousin kerry are both freemasons and members of the elite secret society skull and bones, when do you want to start telling the truth?.

Originally posted by ThePunisher
everything is totally controlled by secret societies and there bosses the elite occult families, just as ww2 was all by design, you people are funny you know its no accident over 90%+ of your presidents are of just 2 royal bloodlines,

Hows that?

just as bush and his cousin kerry

Since kerrys dad was a jewish emigre I seriously doubt that there is much of a family connection going on there.

are both freemasons and members of the elite secret society skull and bones, when do you want to start telling the truth?.

How can you ask other people to tell the truth when you state, without proof, that they are both masons? True, they're both bonesmen, but they publish their rosters, supposedly anyway, thats why they aren't a 'secret' society.

Originally posted by ThePunisher
everything is totally controlled by secret societies and there bosses the elite occult families, just as ww2 was all by design, you people are funny you know its no accident over 90%+ of your presidents are of just 2 royal bloodlines, just as bush and his cousin kerry are both freemasons and members of the elite secret society skull and bones, when do you want to start telling the truth?.

When do you want to start telling the truth? We have previously been speaking about actual history on this thread, not absurd conspiracy theories invented by 40 year old McDonald's employees who run the conspiracy websites from their parents' basements.

Fact check: Neither Bush nor Kerry are Freemasons, nor are they related. There are no "presidential bloodlines", and, as hard as it may be to admit to yourself, I reiterate that Adolf Hitler was a dictator, and that he ruled Europe mercilessly, and with an iron fist.

If you cannot accept the facts, and prefer to rely upon fantasy and deceit, it's not my problem.

Fiat Lvx.

Now I've heard everything - The Fredrick The Great Society were a group of anti-masons, they just figured they would use the name of the founder of German Freemasonry.

Freemasons were not put in concentration camps - unless they were Jews.

When are you going to realise there are no anti-masons, it is an imaginary orginisation perperated by your leadership to convince you that you are the the poor persecuted beautiful bretheren, rather than a bunch of knucklegrazing two bit crooks folowing a dogma of lies and deception.

Its amazing how a discussion on Blavatsky ends up with the usual shift towards the same old same old.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Freemasons were not put in concentration camps - unless they were Jews.

Oh, really? Try looking here (slide 3), here (under Criticism and repression), here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here (an actual transcript from the Nuremburg Trials, no less), here, here (here's a quote: "All members of German lodges who had not left them until after January 30, 1933 (the date of the Nazi seizure of power), were not accepted in the Nazi party, and some were sent to concentration camps."), and here.

Need more?

*A little note... I used NO Masonic sources on the above list... the links are all from third-party sources, to avoid the inevitable hue and cry that I was merely spreading propoganda... a common tool of the Holocaust denyer.

[edit on 13-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Now I've heard everything - The Fredrick The Great Society were a group of anti-masons, they just figured they would use the name of the founder of German Freemasonry.
Freemasons were not put in concentration camps - unless they were Jews.

Your lies are beginning to catch up with you. Anyone who has ever studied the Third Reich, even half-heartedly and half asleep in a college class, knows better than that. Who are you trying to fool, us or yourself?

When are you going to realise there are no anti-masons, it is an imaginary orginisation perperated by your leadership to convince you that you are the the poor persecuted beautiful bretheren, rather than a bunch of knucklegrazing two bit crooks folowing a dogma of lies and deception.

Your ignorance would be amazing, if I thought for a second it was honest ignorance, which I don't, even for a minute. I know that you know better, and that you purposefully and wilfully spread disinformation.

Everyone here knows that there are anti-Masons, and they have organized under different names: the Holy Inquisition, the Anti-Masonic Party, the Nazi Party, the Communist Party, etc. The anti-Masons have had a blood-chilling effect on the history of the world, but have now been practically wiped out by enlightened thought. The only places they still exist are in third world fascist military dictatorships, Communist Asia, scattered remnants of extremist fundamentalist religious groups and isolated conspiracy theorists who rant and rave on the Internet because no one pays them any attention in real life.

Fiat Lvx.

Excellent post, Alex. The links you provided point out Necros' lies quite sufficiently.

Too many freaks, not enough circuses...

Fiat Lvx.

ww2 you mean that thing these joined spiders web pyramid network of secret groups created designed funded guided told when to start and when to finish etc it was all by design, (just like the current war against people ww3)

the order of the quest/the olympians/the illuminati/13 families/nwo/the council of 300/the black nobility(i.e. royalty)/zionism
skull and bones/freemasonary(the great WHITE brotherhood lodge uk/london i.e. "THE WHITEHOUSE")/rosicurians/the knights templar/


and i am only typing the basics!.

[edit on 13-8-2004 by ThePunisher]

[edit on 13-8-2004 by ThePunisher]

Originally posted by ThePunisher
ww2 you mean that thing these joined spiders web pyramid network of secret groups created designed funded guided told when to start and when to finish etc it was all by design, (just like the current war against people ww3)

the order of the quest/the olympians/the illuminati/13 families/nwo/the council of 300/the black nobility(i.e. royalty)/zionism
skull and bones/freemasonary(the great WHITE brotherhood lodge uk/london i.e. "THE WHITEHOUSE")/rosicurians/the knights templar/


and i am only typing the basics!.

[edit on 13-8-2004 by ThePunisher]

[edit on 13-8-2004 by ThePunisher]

Just because some things should be preserved, and studied...

Crypto Monkeys, not just for the indecipherable anymore...

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
*A little note... I used NO Masonic sources on the above list... the links are all from third-party sources, to avoid the inevitable hue and cry that I was merely spreading propoganda... a common tool of the Holocaust denyer.

You could have also used Mein Kampf itself, Alex.

In the middle of Volume 1 Chapter X1. Nation and Race (which is where Hitler reallly goes to town on the Jews) you will find this -

"Finally, the Jewish influence on economic affairs grows with terrifying speed through the stock exchange. He becomes the owner, or at least the controller, of the national labor force.
To strengthen his political position he tries to tear down the racial and civil barriers which for a time continue to restrain him at every step. To this end he fights with all the tenacity innate in him for religious tolerance - and in Freemasonry, which has succumbed to him completely, he has an excellent instrument with which to fight for his aims and put them across. The governing circles and the higher strata of the political and economic bourgeoisie are brought into his nets by the strings of Freemasonry,and never need to suspect what is happening."



[edit on 13-8-2004 by Leveller]