Why do "saturday night" pistols have such a horrible reputation?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Aliensdoexist

 

Accuracy has a lot more to do with barrel length than anything else but I am pretty sure you will get better accuracy from small pistol rounds than with large pistol rounds. At least that is what I read and heard!

While most .25acp "velvet" pistols are supposedly for deep undercover missions and good backup, some manufacturers sell up to 3 inch barrel versions such as the cobra phoenix. And guess what? It sells for $120 brand new. I can also get a used lorcin for $30 25acp and $50 for a used cobra .32acp For someone who is on a tight budget it makes little difference if its "one shot-one kill" or "two shots-one kill" Aiming is everything regardless of caliber.......

Well then go ahead and believe everything that you've read, because I can honestly tell you coming from a person that has shot guns on a regular basis for 30 years that what you've read about the effectiveness and accuracy of a .25acp and .32acp are wrong sounds like your deadset on what you believe and I cannot fix stupid so go out and buy one.

My girlfriend and I both carry the cz 82 as our carry guns it's chambered in 9mm makarov which many consider too small.

When using a weapon the most important thing is being proficient with the weapon. The reality is at 7 yards a 9mm may over penetrate slamming through into god knows what behind the person you are trying to put down. Small calibers are meant to fill a different niche than combat calibers designed to be fired from full size combat pistols.

In many states part of their concealed carry law specifically states that if other people can SEE YOUR WEAPON you are now illegally carrying and can be charged with brandishing or other offenses and LOSE YOUR CARRY PERMIT IMMEDIATELY! Sub caliber pistols are easier to carry LEGALLY. To many of us, no matter how stupid we think the laws are, we do everything we can to follow them because to lose our firearms rights would be a terrible blow to us. Not only that but the afore mentioned over penetration considerations plus the weight of a combat handgun slapping into your thigh shoulder or weighing down your waistband ALL DAY EVERY DAY can be irritating and fatiguing.

For me personally I have small handguns and large handguns, I do not think one is better than the other they are just intended for different purposes....

Also on a personal note: While I DO CHOOSE to carry concealed an undisclosed portion of the time. It is a point of personal pride that when I carry NO ONE and I mean NO ONE sees my weapon!

The point of concealed carry is for SELF PROTECTION not to INTIMIDATE not because GUNS ARE COOL....

I carry to protect myself, the ones I love, and anyone else who may need it in my immediate vicinity and FOR NO OTHER REASON!

The SECOND someone else sees your weapon it has become a LIABILITY especially in today's society where they may call the police on you (at which point they may face you down like an armed criminal which leaves great potential for you to get yourself killed before you can explain yourself... This situation can also lead to you losing your carry permit as well)

Or they may try to take the weapon from you... (in a situation like that especially if there is more than one of them you can lose your weapon, potentially get badly hurt in the confrontation, be forced to kill someone, have a loved one hurt in the confrontation, or a myriad of other scenarios all of which actually make the gun you carry to protect yourself cause you problems instead)

I am not trying to discourage anyone from owning a gun or carrying one. I just want people to understand that there is a DUTY involved in making the choice to carry a lethal weapon. You need to understand this and take the time to become something other than a DANGER TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS by studying proper procedures and the rules of safe gun use! These rules are NOT optional it's not like in the movies... if you have an "accidental discharge" you can KILL another human being and whether or not you end up in prison do you want that on your conscience?

Oh and in response to the poster that says you can get better accuracy out of small rounds than large ones...

NO... not even close! The things that factor into accuracy are rifling rate, barrel length, sectional density of the round, weight distribution, fit and finish of the weapon, velocity, quality of ammunition, quality of powder, how even powder burn was.

As a general rule of thumb though high velocity rounds of fairly high powder to bullet mass ratios out of longer barrels are the most accurate. This means a 9mm parabellum will GENERALLY be more accurate than a .25 acp .32 or .380 pretty much every day of the week. Personally I will not use .25 or .32 caliber weapons for the basic reason that the ammo is expensive compared to 9mm para and MUCH less accurate or effective. In my personal experience .380, .38 special, 9 x 18 makarov, and .22 long rifle or magnum are all great small rounds that are worth carrying and useful if you have to defend yourself.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Aliensdoexist

 

Accuracy has a lot more to do with barrel length than anything else but I am pretty sure you will get better accuracy from small pistol rounds than with large pistol rounds. At least that is what I read and heard!

I brought my brother in law to my weekly shoot at range today for his first time , my hand to God, as we are leaving the car to walk into the range he says "I should do pretty good, I've been playing call of duty alot"

You sound like you have about the same level of firearms training as he does.

Question: If we're outside on a windy day & You're on the pitchers mound and you throw a wiffle ball & then a baseball to the catcher... which one do you think you could throw more accurately? Probably the baseball right? Why? Because of Mass and Velocity (Take BC out of the equation, we're trying to K.I.S.S) The baseball would also be affected less by wind than the wiffle ball.

If what you're saying is true all sniper rifles would be 22-250's and .17 HMR's and LEO's would carry .22's. I would advise you to go to a range, speak with some of the people there that actually know what they're talking about, take NRA 1st steps pistol and put a few hundred rounds through the Q before you spread disinfo with things "you're pretty sure about" but have no working knowledge of.

reply to post by EyesWideShut



Its no use to talk sense into that guy, ive tried he still believes what he's read from somewhere else so let him think that he's getting some uber tactical .25 acp with sniper like range and accuracy out of a 1.5 inch barrel that shoots bad guy seeking ammunition and cost under $125.00.

He should also add some accessories to to his gun also, maybe Crimson Trace laser grip and with some tritium sights and a tac light so he could blind any attacker with his bling.

Originally posted by roguetechie
Oh and in response to the poster that says you can get better accuracy out of small rounds than large ones...

NO... not even close! The things that factor into accuracy are rifling rate, barrel length, sectional density of the round, weight distribution, fit and finish of the weapon, velocity, quality of ammunition, quality of powder, how even powder burn was.

I think the two most important factors for accuracy are (1)bullet length to width ratio-how slender a bullet is and (2)barrel length. Then you go to bullet weight in relation to gun powder and everything else.

Isn't it much easier to propel a smaller bullet than a bigger bullet due to the extra mass? True if its windy the smaller bullet will be easier influenced then a bigger bullet!

Originally posted by darrman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

i was to understand the term "saturday night special" referred to the Gun plant working- "off the books"- on a manufacturing run, and these guns were made WITHOUT serial numbers,, so there was no TRACKING..

mon-fri normal processing ,,but saturday night-- and the boys on the night shift made a few extras for their buddies .

Not very likely when you stop to think about it. Did Ruger stop making their high quality guns on week days and switch to different molds and maching for a few hours to make no-name guns? Doubtful.

Probably the term is one contrieved to replace the century-old term of a "two-dollar pistol." That became the saying, "Hotter than a two-dollar pistol on a Saturday night." Today, "Saturday night special" is street talk for the same sort of gun.

edit on 3/27/11 by darrman because: added 2 cents

reply to post by James1982


that's just what i was thinking, unless you split some ones melon or make a heart shot.
a small round is more than likely going to piss a big man off, now if you get some crack head,
or some one on pcp, or crystal meth, and all their juices flowing, you might as well be using spit balls.
small rounds don't have knock down power. when you shoot you want to knock them down.

thats one reason the military went to .45 and lager caliber rounds.

here a link that gives al little histroy about the adoption of the .45 auto.

www.morolandhistory.com/Related Articles/Legend of Colt 45.pdf

this is not the story i wanted, some where on this hard drive i have the army history of how and why they chose the calibers they did. i do remember that with the m16 even though it .223 / 5.56 its the amount of powder and the velocity that make it such a great round, and the tumble effect.

best weapon for home defense is a 12 gauge shot gun, just about any thing you load into to it, from brid shot, buck shot and slugs, fired inside the home at the close ranges, will leave a pretty big hole.
and if your gonna carry a pistol, most people don't want to be shot so scare factor helps, so i say use the biggest scarcest one you can handle. because if you have to shoot you want to put them down on their ass.

There are quite a few components to what makes an accurate round... Really too many to list here but generally speaking a large round that is longer than it is wide is ideal for accuracy and penetration... Look at the fact that the premier sniper rifle is a variant of the browning machine gun.

reply to post by Aliensdoexist


You're right bro, you can lead a man to info... but you can't make him think.

It's a Logic Fail
_________________________________________________________________

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

I brought my brother in law to my weekly shoot at range today for his first time , my hand to God, as we are leaving the car to walk into the range he says "I should do pretty good, I've been playing call of duty alot"

You sound like you have about the same level of firearms training as he does.

Hey retard, I own three shotguns

1)12 guage double barrel
2)12 guage semi-auto 5 shots-2 plugged
3)9 mm rim fire shotgun

So I am not exactly a "call of duty" novice. Take your bs expertise to someone else who really is clueless....

Yes I am not a pistol afficionado. I explained why I want a CHEAP pistol and yes I have watched videos, read articles, talked to people, etc If I can shoot my 12 guage out to 60 yards and kill anything with ONE SHOT 90% of the time then that means I am probably pretty good, no?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by roguetechie
Oh and in response to the poster that says you can get better accuracy out of small rounds than large ones...

NO... not even close! The things that factor into accuracy are rifling rate, barrel length, sectional density of the round, weight distribution, fit and finish of the weapon, velocity, quality of ammunition, quality of powder, how even powder burn was.

I think the two most important factors for accuracy are (1)bullet length to width ratio-how slender a bullet is and (2)barrel length. Then you go to bullet weight in relation to gun powder and everything else.

Isn't it much easier to propel a smaller bullet than a bigger bullet due to the extra mass? True if its windy the smaller bullet will be easier influenced then a bigger bullet!

Your ready to go into competion shooting now. Just pick a slender bullet of your choice with the right bullet length to width ratio and your good to go. If only snipers could have a slender bullet of their choice it would make thier missions much easier. Sorry I'm resorting to sarcasm as my last means of trying to reason with your very very very limited exposure to firearms outside of "Call of Duty".

and wasn't ronald reagan shot with a .22 and didn't even know it at first.
wasn't until he was in the limo and clamed down that they realized he was hit.

reply to post by Aliensdoexist


So your saying a slender bullet isn't more accurate than a stubby bullet, assuming everything else remains the same. Ok no problem...whatever. I have no problem with people disagreeing. I just don't like the "call of duty" nonsense. Thanks for the discussion!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

I brought my brother in law to my weekly shoot at range today for his first time , my hand to God, as we are leaving the car to walk into the range he says "I should do pretty good, I've been playing call of duty alot"

You sound like you have about the same level of firearms training as he does.

Hey retard, I own three shotguns

1)12 guage double barrel
2)12 guage semi-auto 5 shots-2 plugged
3)9 mm rim fire shotgun

So I am not exactly a "call of duty" novice. Take your bs expertise to someone else who really is clueless....

Yes I am not a pistol afficionado. I explained why I want a CHEAP pistol and yes I have watched videos, read articles, talked to people, etc If I can shoot my 12 guage out to 60 yards and kill anything with ONE SHOT 90% of the time then that means I am probably pretty good, no?

9mm Rim Fire Shotgun, holy bejesus you've just invented a new round. Please tell us all how you did it, and if you don't mind me asking what the hell is "2 Plugged". Please, for the love of god get off of your computer and go sign yourself up for a firearms saftey course, then take practical pistol course as well look on NRA's website for classes near you.

Here ya go:


Music: Elton John
Lyrics: Bernie Taupin
Piano and vocals: Elton John
Bass: Dee Murray
Electric guitars: Davey Johnstone
Drums: Nigel Olsson

It's getting late have you seen my mates
Ma tell me when the boys get here
It's seven o'clock and I want to rock
Want to get a belly full of beer
My old man's drunker than a barrel full of monkeys
And my old lady she don't care
My sister looks cute in her braces and boots
A handful of grease in her hair
chorus
Don't give us none of your aggravation
We had it with your discipline
Saturday night's alright for fighting
Get a little action in

Get about as oiled as a diesel train
Gonna set this dance alight
'Cause Saturday night's the night I like
Saturday night's alright, alright, alright
Well they're packed pretty tight in here tonight
I'm looking for a dolly who'll see me right
I may use a little muscle to get what I need
I may sink a little drink and shout out "She's with me!"
A couple of the sound that I really like
Are the sounds of a switchblade and a motorbike
I'm a juvenile product of the working class
Whose best friend floats in the bottom of a glass

reply to post by ZombieWoof



And personally, I prefer my Ruger sp101, close up 357 action for all of my intimate encounters...ok, most of...

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

I brought my brother in law to my weekly shoot at range today for his first time , my hand to God, as we are leaving the car to walk into the range he says "I should do pretty good, I've been playing call of duty alot"

You sound like you have about the same level of firearms training as he does.

Hey retard, I own three shotguns

1)12 guage double barrel
2)12 guage semi-auto 5 shots-2 plugged
3)9 mm rim fire shotgun

So I am not exactly a "call of duty" novice. Take your bs expertise to someone else who really is clueless....

Yes I am not a pistol afficionado. I explained why I want a CHEAP pistol and yes I have watched videos, read articles, talked to people, etc If I can shoot my 12 guage out to 60 yards and kill anything with ONE SHOT 90% of the time then that means I am probably pretty good, no?

It's a SHOTGUN!!!! You're SUPPOSED to be able to do that. Look, the only reason you got pissed with the Call of Duty comment is because it hit close to home. I didn't mean for it to actually hurt your feelings. I apologize. I'm not going to argue with you over the internet about your shooting skills because I don't know anything about you. All I know is that the info you were posting about pistols is High and to the Right. I don't like when people post disinfo (knowingly or unknowingly) about firearms because some chooch on here might read it, decide a .22 is a viable option in a self defense pistol & get themselves into trouble. It's not good to offer pistol caliber reccomendations when you yourself do not own a pistol.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Aliensdoexist

 

So your saying a slender bullet isn't more accurate than a stubby bullet, assuming everything else remains the same. Ok no problem...whatever. I have no problem with people disagreeing. I just don't like the "call of duty" nonsense. Thanks for the discussion!

Well lets see here is all that a marksmen has to take into consideration either in combat or competition. Range to the target, wind direction, wind velocity, altitude and elevation of the weapon and the target and ambient temperature, humidity, angle of fire, bullet drop and last but not least they have to compensate for coriolis effect. I'm sure there is more but this is all I can think of right now, gun accuracy is based on so many factors, its a very, very complex science mixed with complex mathmatical formulas. A slender bullet which is what you refer too and the technical term you should reword it too is "ballistic coefficient" or BC for short.

You are so correct Mr. Alien.


Ah seen some major bad asses blow their wad on nuttin just because they had no clue and the training was suspect.

Of course they got better, but ain't no virgin gonna make you crow!!!