I Have a Very Stubborn Young Child...I Need Advice?

First off I would like to ask any fellow parents that read this to maybe add their experiances with your own children,if it pertains to this,and how you handled them...

My girlfriend and I have a 31/2 year old little girl. For a awhie now We have been having trouble with her and not listening to anything we tell or what we ask her to do. Its becoming to be a very tough situation with us. She is very stubborn. I know she gets this from her mother because her mother is the most stubborn,independant woman I have ever met.

She is a very bright and intelligent little girl. Sometime shes like talking to an adult. One of the biggest problems we have with her is the the word "NO". When it comes to something that we say to her whether its time for bed or finish your food or even sit down for a bit and play. It seems like thats all we get is a big fat NO. And the thing is she is smart enough at the young age to know whats right and whats wrong very clearly.We try to ask her these things in the nicest ways possible and we still get the same answer. Even when we try to be stern about it she pretty much laughs at us and proceeds to do what she wants.

Neither my girlfriend or myself really believe in spanking but sometimes we feel that there is no other way. I know that alot people judge spanking and in no way am I condoning it or saying that it is evil. When it does come down to spanking her its not like we do it often or hard enough that it effects her in any physical way. She usually laughs at us after the fact and just keeps going about her business. All though sometimes it seems to work because it seems to hurt her feelings more than anything else. I just dont want that to be the answer though. I love her very much and never like seeing her cry.

One of the things that I think the problem comes from is my girlfriends mother. YEP...Im saying tht the grandparent may have an effect on my childs behavior. We as parnts try to be strict but not to strict. We are trying to make sure when it comes time for school and other upcoming events in her life that she will be ready and well behaved. But whaen it comes to grandma she lets her get away with murder. Lets her do whatever she wants. And yes we have discussed this with her many different times with the same answer. "Shes going home with you. Shes out of my hands now" Good Luck". She takes her 3 days a week and every time she comes home shes just a little worse then bfore she left. I know we cant keep her from her grandmas and Im not saying this is the only problem.

So Im asking for any input,knowledge,experiances or anything that can help us with this matter that doesnt effect the well being of our daughter. See I see this to be a important matter to me and i apologize before hand if people think that this shouldnt be on here. AGAIN, all I am doing is asking for advice and it would greatly be appreciated...THANK YOU MUCH

Hey,

I too have a stubborn 3 1/2 year old...I don't think there is another kind

I have found that doing a time-out in my son's room and sticking to a 5 minute, no verbal contact, period helped the situation greatly after only a couple of days of DILIGENT ignoring for that full five minutes. Tell her that she will be ignored for those 5 min and don't give in, or you will just reinforce her getting her way. It's tough to hear the screaming in time out...but eventually it works...it really will. Good luck. I know it's tough...but you're right about the spanking....there is no need for it at all!!!

Swat her on the butt!!! One good swat to let your darling daughter know that her behavior is unacceptable. It is the only way, in my opinion, that children that young learn their limits. A couple of good swats and i bet youll see a difference in her behavior.

It worked for me and my wife. I have no qualms about giving a good swat when needed. My wife on the other hand does and would never touch our daughters like in that way. Then she used to complain to me why the kids never listened to her. Well, the didnt listen to her because they didnt have to. They could do whatever they wanted without fear of repercussion.

Don't swat to hurt her, just do it hard enough to stun and scared her. I wish you all the best!

I have a 3 1/2 year old boy who is the EXACT same way. Very stubborn (like me), and so persistant. I have tried everything with him but nothing works. Its so hard taking him places because he will not listen or stick by me, he always wants to run off and get into things. Its very frusturating. Wish I had some advice to give ya, good luck on finding something that works.

reply to post by gdaub23


Dont Do Anything! Social services will find some way of making you look like a terrible parent and take your kid into care so it can be used as another Paper soldier on the front lines of their governments pathetic wars

Well, if spanking the kid doesn't work, then try spanking the grandma.


Kidding, but you gotta take control now or the behaviour will continue into their life. Just imagine the hell you'll be in when she's 16. I'm not exactly sure how you can achieve this, but discipline, like other good habits, is real important to enforce at a young age because it will carry into adulthood. Be firm, and when she does well you can treat her to something small to help solidify good habits. But take it seriously and don't just shrug it off believing she'll just grow out of it, because the basic premise will resurface eventually in their life and may cause trouble. Be especially serious if the behaviour becomes destructive.

Oh, I have a great idea: maybe you can try enrolling her in some kind of music classes, like keyboard/piano. Occupying her mind is a great way smooth things over.

gotta go old school on them... kids should not be able to tell a grown parent "no" unless you are asking a question ... you should be able to tell your kids and they should listen... no questions asked. when they get older you guys can nit pick situations to let them decide who and what to build on and understand personal responsibilities and character... for now its the parents who should be taking control and telling your child why they should listen and what will happen if they dont... if they do not understand you should be able to within your parental rights make them understand... no need to beat your kids anyone... just a simple spanking will do here... and if that doesnt work take away some privilages for an hour or two... kids hate missing handy manny and callilou or whatever lol. i dont understand why parents dont use this more... I do feel however some parents go overboard and expect too much of kids. After all they are just kids. I take care of my daughter all the time and she pretty much listens. If she feels she missed out on some fun she may throw a little fit followed by the familiar crying... but in that instance it may be time for a nap. I get a kick outa seeing parents get told what to do by their own children...

Don't ever tell her to do something unless you are willing to follow through and MAKE her do it. If you tell her to go to bed, be prepared to physically carry her to bed and make her do it.

Don't blame her grandparents. Her parenting is up to you and your girlfriend. If it's in her best interest to not see so much of grandma, then that's what needs to happen. WHY is your child living 3 days per week with someone else? That's almost as much time as she spends with you. If you don't want the grandma's influence to affect your daughter, don't let her spend so much time with her!

The longer this goes on the worse it will get. If a 3 year old is running your household, it's time to take some drastic steps and start over, because something you're doing is wrong. I'm not going to advocate spanking. I don't think it's necessary. But you do have to THINK about what you're teaching her. For example, when you tell her to go to bed and she says no? What you do in that time teaches her the consequences of her saying no. Do you MAKE her go to bed or do you beg and plead? Do you ignore her or what? Is there something she treasures that you could take away? Something she wants to do that you could deny? I strongly believe in punishment, but not the kind that physically hurts. I don't have anything against a pop on the butt, but if it does no good (she's laughing at you??) then it's worthless.

You have to find her value in behaving. Make it worth her while to obey you. Make CONSEQUENCES for her actions. She'll soon learn that maybe grandma will take her crap, but she can't get away with that at home.

And... get used to seeing her cry. Please don't teach her that crying will get her way. There are already too many adult women running around who learned that lesson a little too well...

Oh, and NEVER threaten her with something that you're not going to follow through on! ALWAYS keep your promises. Good or bad! Follow through, be consistent and spend time talking with her mom about how you're going to handle this.

1st off you need to get grandma to mind you, this is your child and her actions will severely impact the attitude of your child, after all she spends nearly half her time with grandma. I'd start with putting granny in time-out. When physically punishing your child you have to realize that it's far more about fear than pain. If you hurt a child they will cry, scream, and sob; but if you scare them they will be quiet and will obey. You need to get some absolute respect from Granny no matter what it takes, and start being less predictable with the child. As one poster already pointed out, isolation and lack of stimuli for a short period of time tends to work really well, but as your parents always said, it's gonna hurt you more than the child. Oh yeah, I have a stubborn child who is absolutely spoiled by my parents-in-law too, but I don't let any of them undermine my authority, it is absolute!

My daughter was also a very stubborn and challenging child. "Time out" never worked for her. She would kick the chair over and move on. I would have to physically return her to her room over and over and she would blow the door off the hinges coming back out. It was as if she had no fear of us. I too..do not like to resort to spanking and never saw it as an effective tool. I read books..attended parenting classes. And learned that she was not so very different from a lot of other children.

You have to learn their currency..what matters to her? When the time comes for discipline then remove that currency and be consistent. A favorite toy..or television show. Something matters to her. Some children will be more challenging than others. My daughter was tough, I finally had to pull a Dr. Phil Commando move on her. When she was about 5. I took EVERYTHING out of her room. Packed it all away. She came back to a bed and her clothes. I took the pictures off the wall...all the Hello Kitty crap...Barbie dolls..toys..trinkets...stuffed animals...everything. Took me all day while she was at school. Packed it in the attic so it would not be easily retrievable. Little by little with good behaviour she was able to "earn" her things back. It took awhile.

It was drastic...but now she is twelve...straight A student..a model example of good behavior. Makes her bed and keeps her room immaculate..on her own steam. Her room is neater than mine!..lol. I never have to tell her to study or practice her clarinet..she does everything on her own. She loves to sew..can run a machine like no one's business..and has a brown belt in karate. She has a very clear understanding of consequences. And not to say that she doesn't get unbelievbly fresh at times..but keeping things consistent was always key...you have to follow through and not feel bad. She's gonna cry or your gonna cry.

Love,..discipline...consistency..patience..lots and lots of patience...gotta dig deep for this one...we practice patience..it isn't something that's automatically bestowed upon us. We earn it.

Most imortantly...I recognize that I have learned as much from her as she has from me. She gave birth to me as much as I did to her.

Good luck!

Originally posted by Mandog
You have to learn their currency..what matters to her? When the time comes for discipline then remove that currency and be consistent. A favorite toy..or television show. Something matters to her. Some children will be more challenging than others. My daughter was tough, I finally had to pull a Dr. Phil Commando move on her. When she was about 5. I took EVERYTHING out of her room. Packed it all away. She came back to a bed and her clothes. I took the pictures off the wall...all the Hello Kitty crap...Barbie dolls..toys..trinkets...stuffed animals...everything. Took me all day while she was at school. Packed it in the attic so it would not be easily retrievable. Little by little with good behaviour she was able to "earn" her things back. It took awhile.

This is excellent advice! I agree completely!

I don't think spanking is a good option because you are most times angry when you spank, they pushed you too far and you are teaching your child your own inability to control your temper while informing them they need to control their own. Hypocritical much? I think so. We need to be able to discipline out of love not anger or frustration. Tough love is all good, you've driven me nuts so now I'm gonna snap, not so much.

3 and a half year old's are often extremely stubborn as they are trying to assert their will, if given an inch, they will take a mile! No is their favorite word and it's not grandma's job to discipline, it's the parents but getting her on board with your plan of action is KEY if she is going to be in your daughter's life that much. I often see parents in the stores with children that age on the ground, in the throws of a temper tantrum, parent looking helpless and think, hello, grab kid, take out of store and inform she/he gets nothing due to their behavior and that the next time they won't be coming on the shopping trip. In most cases the trip isn't life or death food supplies so leaving promptly is the best course of action to teach.

My daughter only pulled that stunt once....in a grocery store and this is what I did and it worked. (Please note she may be telling a professional someday how her mother scarred her for life, hehe.) She started to freak because she wanted something and I said no. So I started yelling out at the topic of my lungs to everyone in the store, who wants to watch my daughter have a time out??? Who wants to see her be timed out?? She never did it again, the shock factor of her own mortification did the trick. Everyone was looking at her and she realized it wasnt' in a good way. Sure I probably looked nuts but it worked.

My advice regarding your daughter....if you take her stuff out of her room if she's refusing to mind you, and it still doesn't work....inform her you are going to have a yard sale of her favorite things and do it, if you don't follow thru, she knows she owns you and rules the roost. You can always replace items from the yard sale profits once she earns them but I guarentee watching her items go bye bye will make her realize there are consequences to her actions she won't like. You might be out a few bucks but the years of smooth sailing will make up for it, by far!

If none of the advice above works from any of the posters and you see any violent or increasingly violent behavior I would suggest a visit to a pedatrician to rule out any possible health conditions i.e. Aspergers...In some cases a child's behavior isn't 'bad' but a symptom of a medical condition that needs attention. It would be aweful to discipline a child for something they have no control over.

It's normal for a 3 and half year old to buck authority, it's normal to have fits, temper tantrums, but when you really literally cannot get her to conform to any rules or schedule at all, always rule out a medical cause before making a plan of action your child may not be capable of adhering to. I had a brother who was spanked repeatedly for years due to having undiagnosed and treated ADHD and dyslexia. As an adult he bares the scars of never being able to be 'good' when he really just needed help my parents were totally unaware of.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Mandog
You have to learn their currency..what matters to her? When the time comes for discipline then remove that currency and be consistent. A favorite toy..or television show. Something matters to her. Some children will be more challenging than others. My daughter was tough, I finally had to pull a Dr. Phil Commando move on her. When she was about 5. I took EVERYTHING out of her room. Packed it all away. She came back to a bed and her clothes. I took the pictures off the wall...all the Hello Kitty crap...Barbie dolls..toys..trinkets...stuffed animals...everything. Took me all day while she was at school. Packed it in the attic so it would not be easily retrievable. Little by little with good behaviour she was able to "earn" her things back. It took awhile.

This is excellent advice! I agree completely!

Yes, me too!

reply to post by gdaub23


I know what you are talking about, having raised two children that did not recognize any authority at all, and spoke like adults most of the time. I think what you have here is an Indigo Child. Now people in this forum will tell you there is no such thing, that you have delusions of grandeur, and you may need mental health professionals to help you with this. I have heard it all. If you truly wish to understand your daughter, educate yourself a little....

42 Signs That a Child (or Adult) May Be a Star Kid/ (Star Seed)

Indigo Children

WHAT ARE INDIGO AND CRYSTAL CHILDREN AND ADULTS?

Good luck, U2 me if you want more.

Thank you all for advice and input so far...I appreciate it very much...but one thing that people have misunderstood is that she stays the night at grandmas only one or maybe two nights at most and the other time is just a few hours. the bad thing about staying at grandmas is she lets her sleep in bed with her and that tranfers over to her not wanting to sleep in her bed at home...we havr mrtioned this to her many times before but she keeps letting it go on. maybe everyone is right and we should look at limiting the time spent with grandma

reply to post by gdaub23



In that case then, don't let her stay the night at grandma's house until she can behave in a manner that is more acceptable to you and her mum. My 3 sons were taught consequences from as early an age as possible. As someone else says, find what she likes and if your daughter does not toe the line then take it from her. Our 3 'lost' games consoles, computers, tv and videos, late night stay ups, trips out to see friends etc. It didn't take them too long to work out what type of behaviour caused these things to disappear. Now they are all young adults and behave as one who understands boundaries/rules and regulations etc would.

Hope you get this sorted soon.

I have a 2 and a half year old little girl and I found a reward system works well with her.

I have a large jar of very small sweets (all different shapes colours and sizes) and when she does something that I want her to do but she doesn't want to do she gets to chose a sweet. It works very well at the moment.....

Another reward I give her is stickers (she loves stickers) and face painting, if she does something good sometimes I'll paint flowers on her arms etc.... The rewards can vary but the principle is the same.

Basically what they are trying to do is exert some level of control over their lives so what you do is give them that control but in a way that gives more pleasant results than an argument or a fight.

I ignore most 'bad' behaviour unless it is really really bad and then its 'time out' in her room (1 min for every year of age). Most bad behaviour is only done to elicit a response from you and if you withhold the response then she'll soon stop the behaviour.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


What you advise sounds very similar to what my best friend & his wife did when their daughter was in the 2 to 4 range and "NO!" was her favorite word on any subject.

Sometimes it was even went like.... "Would you like a cookie?" "NO!!" "Ok" - cookie gets put away. "Whaaa!! Want Cookie!!!" "But you said no.."

"No" was basically her reflex word to everything.

"No" to dinner meant her dinner went in the fridge. An hour or so later when she said she was hungry she was given her dinner out of the fridge. It was very tough a few times to see her go to bed without dinner because she was so stubborn. But, it didn't hurt her and she soon figured out that it really was in her best interest to eat what was for dinner when it was dinner time.

But yeah - you hit it on the head. If they ever stopped following through on anything at all they basically had to start all over again. Also - there was a period where didn't get to spend too many unsupervised visits with her grandmom either due to the effect it had on her behavior.

Them wanting to exercise some control is a good thing - let them. But you pick when they do it. Like her mom would put out 4 or 5 shirts and say which one do you want to wear?

reply to post by Versa


Definitely agree! Don't forget to couple appropriate punishment with generous reward for good behavior! Even set up situations where she can be successful. When she shares or obeys you, reward her.

And tell grandma, "If you don't stop letting her sleep with you, she's not spending the night anymore". Full stop. Non-negotiable.

Good luck!

reply to post by gdaub23


My sons knew what they could get away with under the charge of various adults. They could get away with more with me than they could their dad. They could get away with more with grandma than they could with grandpa.

Their dad only popped them physically if they did something dangerous like running out in the street or smashing each other in a dangerous way. When he hit their butt, it stung and it was intended to hurt and get their attention. It was intended to make them leery of acting thoughtlessly in certain conditions. He always told them what could have happened...

As they grew older, they listened to him when he spoke like that because they connected serious dangerous with serious dad.

He also made fun of them when they acted like idiots - imitating them so they could see what they looked like. This is how they learned table manners as it was disgusting to see dad acting like a goon at the table. He did the same with observing the misbehavior of others at the table in front of them. Boys don't like to act in ways that makes people laugh at them. They learned to be good sports in this way.

He was psychologically involved with them as a man. They respected him and he respected them. We never raised a girl. But overall, we never picked too many fights all at one time. We made preplanned routines like - dinner is at 6:00 followed by team clean-up, you do homework with us (or interact with us) until 7:30, you are going brush your teeth/take a bath or whatever, then you are in yoru bed at 8:00. The routine is the same every day (except when it's not because of a special interruption). If you have a problem with her picking up, you make a rule WITH HER and consentrate on that one thing until it is routine for her. We had a rule, you put one toy away before you take out the next toy or you clean up one activity before you begin the next activity.

If you notice, this requires as much self discipline on your part as it does on her part. You have to practice what you preach. You have to carry out the routine. That is what parenting is about. You have to lay your SELF down for the good of your kid. Raising them is not a part time job. If the grandma is a bad influence, limit her time with the kid. No overnights. The kid can stop by for a couple of hours - with you. You should not be dumping her off at grandmas house anyway. She might feel unwanted when you do that too much.