Should we allow Taiwan to Purchase SSN's

no you said ground not total war now if you said that then i would of understood but frankly your US ground troops could not take the PLA by its self.
also we dont have a small military now germany THATS a small military.

hahahah,

shall we remind you of sth called the Korean War in which the PLA pushed McArthur and his boys all the way from the Yalu to the 38th parallel. Remember this is a division and army-level confrontation with the US having total and dominant air and logistic superiority. We all know where it ended. A draw from the US point of view and a win for the PLA since we advanced from the border to the 38th and you retreated from the border to the 38th. Back then, the technology gap was much bigger than it is today so all your argument that you can kick our arse is entirely speculation.

WRT to selling arms to Taiwan. I say go right ahead and sell them everything they need so that one day when we are united, it will all be ours. lol j/k Anyhow, so why isn't US selling Taiwan top-notch tech stuff??? I think the folks in Washington and New York don't think like you guys here do. lol

Ciao

Well Hawkssss we can't just go giving out our best stuff to anybody. Especially a country thats got a high chance of being succesfully invaded.

As for a land war China has numbers but we have better technology. But considering the technological gap isn't very large when comparing average soldiers China has us there. In the air true we did need a lot of help getting started but were doing pretty good on our own. In the seas Russia didn't seem as interested in a surface navy. They had an impressive sub fleet but I doesn't appear they really want much of a surface navy. But everything comes down to who makes the better desicions. So if there was a conflict it depends on who makes the best use of what they have.

Originally posted by Hawkssss
shall we remind you of sth called the Korean War in which the PLA pushed McArthur and his boys all the way from the Yalu to the 38th parallel. Remember this is a division and army-level confrontation with the US having total and dominant air and logistic superiority. We all know where it ended. Anyhow, so why isn't US selling Taiwan top-notch tech stuff??? I think the folks in Washington and New York don't think like you guys here do. lol

Hmmm interesting view of the Korean War. Kind of reads like it came out of a propaganda manual. Lets see yes the Allies were surprised, when Kim aided by the CHiComs (but without thier knowledge) launched a surprise attack. Got pretty far too, till we kicked thier ass all the way to the Yuan river. China in an attempt to bail out Kim launched a surprise attack accross the Yuan and caught the Allies off guard (Fool me once, shame on you fool me twice shame on me). Did pretty good too. For a while. Then Under Ridgeway, the CHiComs got thier asses kicked back to the 38th parallel. Numerical supreiroity of the CHiCOms did them very little good at times. Just ask the Surviors of The Chosin Reservoir Campaign who made the mistake of tangling with a much smaller group of US marines.

No the folks in Wash. havent come around, but the way China keeps sabre rattling its only a matter of time.

actually i remember that part of the war for some reason from a history channel wich says the marines and co were holding on by thier finger nails
and nothing more. only the naval bombarbment saved them.

Originally posted by devilwasp
actually i remember that part of the war for some reason from a history channel wich says the marines and co were holding on by thier finger nails
and nothing more. only the naval bombarbment saved them.

Granted it was not a cakewalk by any terms. Some companies took up to 80% casulties. But, It was just an example of how combined arms doctrine can work over suberior numbers. However, No one in thier right mind could think that even the US military could be able to invade the mainland. Defending Taiwan will not be easy by any stretch

we wont get there in time to defend it. china can take it over befroe will have time to get a liberation force together. theyll take it but we'll take it back.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
we wont get there in time to defend it. china can take it over befroe will have time to get a liberation force together. theyll take it but we'll take it back.

KrazyIvan, I don't know. As of now (that can change) they don't have the Phibs to do it. They could airdrop troops, but those would have to get past the AF and SAMS. Ill bet the Taiwanese will make them wish they never crossed the straight though.

Taiwan is not interested in purchasing SSNs. They do not have the resources, $$$, or training to support such a program. They will, however, in the near future (first hand knowledge), be purchasing brand new custom made SS submarines. These are diesel boats and for coastal protection are the best choice for Taiwanese Navy. How do I know this??? An O-6 who I worked with has transferred duty stations and his new assignment is the new Captain in charge of Maintenance for these new future submarines.

Actually we did not have total air superiority in the Korean War cuz there were Russians flying migs. hawks did you forget about the russian aces form WWII flying MIG-15's in the Korean war


[edit on 26-7-2004 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by devilwasp
if i was in taiwans shoes i wouldnt trust ANY country super power or not.
and for christ sake westpoint i meant it as an exsample of how you wouldnt like having another country gaurd you !

even though the US is the only reason taiwan was created(because we supported their civil war) and is the only country that has defended them for about 50 years?
about what you said to westpoint regarding being defended by another country, to me if our military was weak and say the uk defended us i'd be greatful to them for it.

Originally posted by devilwasp
why do you all hate china?
really?
i dont like the many americans that think the US is stil a superpower,frankly that died at the end of the cold war.
youv gone down in numbers and in drive to invent things, now all you are is a big country.
also you are not the most powerful nation on earth. switzerland on the other has the power to stop all moeny in the world pretty much.

i dont hate china...

the US is a superpower, we dont have 2.4 million (reserve and active) troops, 4,500 aircraft(plus a few hundred the navy has), 365 naval vessles, and a 10 trillion dollar gnp with a 400 billion dollor military budget and import(and exports) more resources than anyone on earth for nothing, we still invent things all the time or do you not pay attention to technology news?

we havent gone down in numbers, where do you get that? military wise we have but we still have the 2nd largest army and airforce- overall we are the largest military on the planet.

swiss banks may be rich and powerful but US banks are far more rich and powerful than swiss banks.

[edit on 25-7-2004 by namehere]

You guys always easily talk about other people's affairs. Unfortunately you are not God and has no right to determine other people's destine. Taiwan is a part of China and only way to go independance is over all Chinese dead body.

If you think your value is so true and universal, why not persuade British government to let North Irish go independance. US always use double standard and why only so strict on China ? Do you think we will buy this ?

China in an attempt to bail out Kim launched a surprise attack accross the Yuan and caught the Allies off guard

If you don't know the histroy knowledge, you'd better shut up. China just finish civil war in 1949, and country became virtually blank (Kungmintong blowed all the factories and brought all the gold reserve to Taiwan) and all the people are longing for peace. Besides China was using its full strength to prepare the war of liberating Taiwan. Do you think China at this situation will cause other troubles in Korea ? Nonsense.

Korean war is a trap made by Soviet. Stalin encouraged north to attack south without noticing China and for many years China's leaders are still feel angry about this, and because of this, we lost the best opportunity to solve Taiwan problem.

Korean War is a very good trap. Althrough China also became a communist country, but Stalin already see Soviet is impossible to control China. Cause Korean War to let China and US fight with each other can weak both side and block the possibility that US and China become friends.

Actually after sometime of Korean War, there was voice came out from America that America fell into Soviet trap. China is a poor, weak country just get out of civil war, by far no threat to US, what US fight China for ? But such kind of voice can not prevent US continue the war. US is super power, this determined US can not retreat from War without overwhelming victory. Korean war has fought 3 years, and many people think the later 2 years is not necessary, both sides are actually fighting for face.

Many people know that in 60s and 70s, China and Soviet relations are broken, we became enemies from brother and friends, later China even help US to contain Soviet. Do you guys really think there is no reason behind this ?

Originally posted by namehere

even though the US is the only reason taiwan was created(because we supported their civil war) and is the only country that has defended them for about 50 years?
about what you said to westpoint regarding being defended by another country, to me if our military was weak and say the uk defended us i'd be greatful to them for it.

still alliances can change in a minute, yeah u would be but personaly relying on some one else for help is far too risky for me even a close ally its 2 risky

Originally posted by namehere
i dont hate china...

the US is a superpower, we dont have 2.4 million (reserve and active) troops, 4,500 aircraft(plus a few hundred the navy has), 365 naval vessles, and a 10 trillion dollar gnp with a 400 billion dollor military budget and import(and exports) more resources than anyone on earth for nothing, we still invent things all the time or do you not pay attention to technology news?

when britain owned a quarter of the globe they had much larger forces but where not counted as a super power.
no your only classed as a super power because your big boy around the globe thats all. and for the fact you country is like ........massive thats why you can get all your money and people from.
yes yu do invent tech but most of the stuff you have "built" was stolen.

Originally posted by namehere
we havent gone down in numbers, where do you get that? military wise we have but we still have the 2nd largest army and airforce- overall we are the largest military on the planet.

you military spending and troops have gone down since the cold war.
you cant be the largest military on the planet cause the chinese have a much larger airforce and army than you and even adding in your navy wouldnt come close to beating them

Originally posted by namehere
swiss banks may be rich and powerful but US banks are far more rich and powerful than swiss banks.
[edit on 25-7-2004 by namehere]

HA the swiss bank account system is untraceble. they control most bank accounts for many countries dont think so highly of your US banks the swiss bank service has been around for a lot longer and knows what its doing.

Hey devil what is up with your post...anyway china is just using an old trick by saying we want peace blah blah blah...at the same time they are training troops to invade Taiwan. Its like what the Japanese did to the US they were saying we want peace then they go and launch a surprise attack.

Yeah I don't trust China either. Its obvious there going to invade Taiwan. I think whats going on is that all they want is Taiwan and thats it. Of course thats what Adolf Hitler said when he was taking territories just before he invaded Poland.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Yeah I don't trust China either. Its obvious there going to invade Taiwan. I think whats going on is that all they want is Taiwan and thats it. Of course thats what Adolf Hitler said when he was taking territories just before he invaded Poland.

They all seem to read from the same book. With NK is almost like Kim is doing a standup routine. China is more toned down, but scratch the surface and its the smae message. Its like debating ZCheng. If you look at his posts on the what 5-6 threads on this issue, his rhetoric never changes. These guy all read from the same book.

Yea, we can learn alot from old Adolf. China has other teritorial ambitions, but seems fixated on Taiwan first. Zcheng in a post mentioned Siberia as an expansion place in responce to one of my questions. Either he is reading too much Tom Clancy (The Bear and the Dragon) or that is the way the ChiCOms are thinking...

Well considering the border disputes between Russia and China Siberia might be a possible target. Also N. Korea looks high on Chinas list. Those two don't seem to be getting along anymore.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Well considering the border disputes between Russia and China Siberia might be a possible target. Also N. Korea looks high on Chinas list. Those two don't seem to be getting along anymore.

I still lean for Siberia. The natural resources alone make it very tempting. China has to inport quite a lot of oil and that would come in handy, not to mention diamonds, gold, uranium etc.

NK? Crazy dictator. Thats about it...

Well know China has plenty of good reasons to hit N. Korea. For one N. Korea could launch nukes at them at anytime. Next there are reasources there. And it makes South Korea so much easier to attack. But yeah Siberia is more likely. Though I doubt China is going to attack Russia. Even if they do Russias far from any push over.

Originally posted by xbin
If you don't know the histroy knowledge, you'd better shut up. China just finish civil war in 1949, and country became virtually blank Besides China was using its full strength to prepare the war of liberating Taiwan. Do you think China at this situation will cause other troubles in Korea ? Nonsense.

Dude, for starters, lose the hostile attitude "Youd better shut up" indeed. No doubt that the history books of China give the states rendition of events in Korea. DO they also leave out the fact that Mao molested little girls? How do they handle the 30 million plus that he killed during his reign? Sure the propaganda manuals claim different, but the facts are the facts. Gtting back to the war. China did invade to support Kim, drove the allies back, then they ended getting kicked back to the 38th parallel. One surprise was lost, your vaunted ground forces lost quite a it of ground that they had gained. So what part of that don't you understand?