The Falacy of PsuedoScience

reply to post by Resentedhalo08


PLEASE! name some of these pseudosciences! ... hello Resentedhalo08... lol

Don't sweat the small stuff man. Is Parapsychology a "pseudoscience"? After all, isn't it strange calling something "fake science"? Astrology? UFOs? see?

I wonder that what you might be talking about is how people "reason or think" how they formulate and especially how people communicate, write and express ideas etc... SCIENCE hard or otherwise doesn't have a corner on this market.

I think it'll take some more work and delving into this for you to even begin to suss your ideas out man... but hey.... there's a forum and people right here eh?

reply to post by Resentedhalo08


Here's a good starting point - explain, in mainstream scientific terms, how permanent magnets attract each other and magnetic materials.
And editor of Discover magazine tried to do that, and he ended up talking to a Nobel-winning physicist, who engaged in a 15 minute evasion, and ended by claiming that the editor wasn't really interested in science, just in baiting scientists. The answer the physicist gave boils down to "virtual photons". Lol.

hmmmmm magnets eh?

Searching in most any encyclopedia reveals explanations of gravity, magnetism, ah..... electricity, light .... Yet let's talk HARD SCIENCE and the scientific method. Physicists... any worth their salt, will explain this simple hard science FACT. They don't know what any of them are. See the light yet?

"I see." said the blind man.

As I have been asked what constitutes as PsuedoScience, here are a few examples that fall into the grey area where a lot of misinformation and ignorance often occurs, this is not to say that there may or may not be some truth in the said idea's, however these are the theories that I believe would benefit from a more methodical scientific approach to back up the ideas.


Niburu/Planet X

Probably one of the most popular PsuedoScience topics that is discussed here on ATS, often theories are passed around with little or no evidence to back them up. I am of the belief that there may well be a planetry body in the outer solar system in the kuiper belt, there is the much speculated planet Vulcan, which has been theorized to to some gravitational effects on the outer planets and the Voyager 1 and 2 probes, this however does not equate to the Niburu/Planet X theories where it orbits every 3600 years and wildly swings into the inner solar system causing havoc. There simply isn't the evidence to back up this claim.


Hollow Earth Theories

This is another theory that is popular here on ATS, while there may be large cavernous spaces within the Earth, much like a sponge (only larger), I highly doubt that the Earth is hollow as is often suggested, I do have some interest in the Agartha/Shambollah idea's but this is still an area that would greatly benefit from some solid facts.


Channeling

I mean this under the broadest of terms, as there are many types, but for now I will concentrate on channeling of aliens/energies such as those of George Adamski, he claimed that he channeled a Venetian called Orthon, this is a prime case of PsuedoScience as it essentially prays on people's hopes and dream's of alien life and contact. I am very much into Ufology and people like George Adamski is the reason that this feild of research has little credability in academia.

Ofcourse there is also, Mediumistic Channeling, this again is frought with PsuedoScience as this is another area of research that I have found myself in over the years. If anyone is familiar with my threads and the forums that I usually post in then they will know that I am Clairsentient and Clairaudient and can often be found in the Philosophy and Metaphysics Forums, Now I know many of you will claim that I am being somewhat hypocritical here with my idea's, but I tend to disagree, I am interested in such idea's but I do wish that there was more solid facts to back up such idea's, this is the main reason why I am so concerned with PsuedoScience and the ignorance that often comes with it, the whole area needs to be cleaned up and the ignorance needs to be weeded out, then prehaps such subjects can gain some credibility.


Richard Hoagland and interdimensional physics

Richard Hoagland is an out and out fraud, I'm sure many of you will agree with me and some may not, his idea's border on dillusion and he has absoloutly no evidence to back up what he has to say, he is a prime example of someone who peddles ignorant PsuedoScientific thought, I don't think I have to say much more about him.

Timewave Zero

This again is another prime example of PsuedoScience, Terrence McKenna created this theory and he says that it is a numerogical formula based on the interconnectedness of the universe. Now, from a Metaphysical standpoint I do recognise the nature of connectivity in the universe, however Timewave Zero has little evidence to back it up, for such an "all encompassing" theory it's very nature is it's downfall.


Expanding Earth Theory

This is more of a hypothesis than a theory in my opinion, it states that the earth is expanding and is a rival theory to plate techtonics, whilst plate tectonics has been proved and has sound scientific rationale behind it, Expanding Earth theory does not.


Psychic Surgery

In my opinion, this is one of the things that makes the Psychic phenomena laughable to a lot of people and brings down the credibility of the subject as a whole. It is said that, a practitioner can create a psychic incision in their patient and actually conduct the surgery without any anaesthesia or medical apparatus, now the whole operating without anaesthesia is of interest to me as that falls into the realms of psychology and suggestability, pain afterall is all in the head. However to say that it is possible to perform surgery in this way is in my opinion laughable and the practice of out and out fraudsters who prey on the vunerability of people.

You also forgot though to mention state issued 'conspiracy theories' such as 9-11, (the terrorists attacked us cuz they hated our *freedoms* LOL) and all of the psuedoscience and propaganda being put forth to try and keep people from really looking into the nature of such things. I find these misuses of 'science' and bully pulpits much more dangerous to the population over all than such things as planet x, aliens, or whatever the latest fad topic.

When 'the state' trots out 'experts' to hide it's crimes how many people will simply fail to question and just go along with whatever the guy in the white coat said whether or not it even makes logical rational sense. What we really need to do as researchers who seek with honest intent is to apply the SAME set of science based expectations and same expected logical rationals no matter WHO is trying to sell us their beliefs, whether they work for the state, the kept press, or just someone on a message board blog. How many really apply this fair and equal standard in their pursuits for 'truth'. I've seen way to many examples of just the opposite right here on ATS.

reply to post by Tecumte


The thing about 9/11 there does indeed appear to be proof that supports the conspiracy theories that go with them, lol...

The main aim of this thread is to highlight and question the fallacies of psuedoscience and of general theory, only when it is addressed can a we begin to weed out the nonsense and get to any truth that may or may not be there.

reply to post by Resentedhalo08


Who's 'conspiracy theories' are you referring to, the 'states' or those who take exception to them. That's the very thing I'm getting at. Some would just trust whatever was issued by the state or it's mouthpieces as gospel and then relegate any other info into the conspiracy theory catergory. Doing this heavily biases any objective look at the data and tries to make it the burden of those who don't just take the word of those in white coats. The same works in all areas of such 'psuedoscience'. The first and foremost principle to be recognized I would think is that those who have the most incentive to manipulate data should be held to the highest level of scrutiny rather than the lowest level.

reply to post by Tecumte


Well if your asking if I accept the "official" version of 9/11, I most certainly do not.

There is enough evidence that goes against the official version of 9/11, what the actual truth is regarding 9/11 we may never know, we are only ever going to have theories and counter theories in this instance.

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08Psychic Surgery

In my opinion, this is one of the things that makes the Psychic phenomena laughable to a lot of people and brings down the credibility of the subject as a whole. It is said that, a practitioner can create a psychic incision in their patient and actually conduct the surgery without any anaesthesia or medical apparatus, now the whole operating without anaesthesia is of interest to me as that falls into the realms of psychology and suggestability, pain afterall is all in the head. However to say that it is possible to perform surgery in this way is in my opinion laughable and the practice of out and out fraudsters who prey on the vunerability of people.

Someone should have told the authorities of Brazil before they let Arigo out of jail so he could do even more surgeries with a dirty kitchen knife. Or the relatives of the crowned heads of europe, who had sent him many thank you letters for family members cured.
And the scientists who have studied João de Deus (whom he invted to study his work), and declared that he actually is removing large pieces of human tissue, while the unanesthetized patient stands there without flinching.

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08....

By the way, can you tell me what energy is, not what it does, but what it is. Thanks.

Originally posted by grizzle2
Someone should have told the authorities of Brazil before they let Arigo out of jail so he could do even more surgeries with a dirty kitchen knife. Or the relatives of the crowned heads of europe, who had sent him many thank you letters for family members cured.
And the scientists who have studied João de Deus (whom he invted to study his work), and declared that he actually is removing large pieces of human tissue, while the unanesthetized patient stands there without flinching.

Personally I would question the validity of these so called "scientists",

Care to back this up with some sources?

reply to post by Resentedhalo08



Oh, of course, if the scientists disagree with you, they're quacks too.

What would be the point, you would just say the refs are questionable. And so on.

I'm really curious to hear your opinion on this magnet thing.

Originally posted by grizzle2
reply to post by Resentedhalo08

 

Oh, of course, if the scientists disagree with you, they're quacks too.

What would be the point, you would just say the refs are questionable. And so on.

I'm really curious to hear your opinion on this magnet thing.

Well it all comes down to what you define as a scientist, I will just quickly link the Wikipedia definition for clarification

Scientist

A scientist in a broad sense is one engaging in a systematic activity to acquire knowledge. In a more restricted sense, a scientist is an individual who uses the scientific method. The person may be an expert in one or more areas of science. This article focuses on the more restricted use of the word. Scientists perform research toward a more comprehensive understanding of nature, including physical, mathematical and social realms.

I never said anything about scientists disagreeing with me and then labelling them as quacks, those are your words not mine, Scientists disagree all the time and this is an integral part of scientific academia.

Their references would only be questionable if their research is questionable, the two go hand in hand, a scientists reputation is crafted on the work he does and the ideas/theories that he can scientifically prove to be true or untrue.

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08
reply to post by Tecumte

 

Well if your asking if I accept the "official" version of 9/11, I most certainly do not.

There is enough evidence that goes against the official version of 9/11, what the actual truth is regarding 9/11 we may never know, we are only ever going to have theories and counter theories in this instance.

That's great, I absolutely do not accept the offical version either, partially due to the fact I took the time before 9-11 to watch all of the pieces on the board line up to do battle for the oil pipeline routes and mineral riches in Afghanistan immediately prior to 9-11, and once these negotiaions fell through ,many of us felt srtongly very soon there would have to be some event to allow forces to get their way, as shortly happened. In other words as an example, and we may agree on this, whenever an event is looked at one has to try and find all data points of relevence, knowing the conditions and parameters beforehand of the pieces involved in the study, and only by seeing before, during , and after can one come to the most full understanding of what is being alledged, As a side note I happen to think the official gov issued 9-11 story could be proven to be fraudulant if it were ever to be fully examined in a court of UNBIASED law and ALL of the pieces of the story could be fully scrutinized in an open and objective way. But those who hold much of the evidence and have manipulated it in a self serving way will never allow that to happen fro obvious reason (IMO). Just to add, my undersatnding is that a female officer at the Pentagon on 9-11 who sustained injuries and feels the offical stroy is a lie is taking Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. to court on April 5th. While I have serious reservations this trial will ever be allowed to look at all of the data at least someone has the guts to stand up and cry foul this offical story doesn't make sense. Too, I hope she doesn't fly much and has someone watching her back, my OPINION is that these people will do what ever it takes to preserve the 'offical story' line.

There was a post on "chemtrails/contrails" on another thread here at ATS that claimed to be 'science based" that attempted to look at some 'fortuitous' and unusual jet trails and conclude the characteristics of 'contrails'. How anybody could not immediately spot the bogus design of this so called study is beyond me other than the idea that when something is trotted out by so called 'experts' people won't even take the time to look into how well or poorly the study really supports the conclusion. I do agree though while we all have the right to our speculations and observations and interpretations and can pose them as opinions or hypothesis, when one starts calling these 'facts' whether wearing a white coat or not they need to be thoroughly examined for holes first. I find this sorely lacking as apparently you do too from ALL sides..

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08

I'll let you do the work, if you want to.

I think of things like tarot card reading, ghost hunting/communication or even trying to build a perpetual motion machine.

I think the real fallacy lies in the fact that current scientific method breaks down for these. These things could be proven real if we just had the right method, asked the right questions used the right apparatus for measurement and so on.

In the past many psuedo science's were thought to never be provable and thus false but now I think our understanding in these areas are broadening and we are getting closer to a real science for them all the time.

I have often said Proving the existence of God and miracles is just a matter of finding the right science to measure these things. So God may turn out to be an ancient Alien race who created Man from some experiments with DNA and the miracles may be some by some quantum science we do not yet understand - even if true that would not make my God any less my god.

Consider people with Multiple Personality Disorders.

It is a provable scientific fact that some of these personalities have physical deformities or diseases that the other personalities do not have - one can actually measure the presence or lack of disease in the body with each one or the broken arm one personality has that suddenly the other personality doesn't have ! The arm would literally mend itself as the person switches personalities.

We have no idea why or how these things can happen yet we have documented scientific evidence of them.

I have some links and video on this strange phenomenon - I will post as soon as I can dig them up. This serves to illustrate something we know is happening yet don't have the science to understand.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix
I would suggest a read of Michael Talbot's book, "The Holographic Universe," if we want to understand the origins of our thought processes and how these manifest into "science." One of the most striking things about this thread is the absolute clinging to the left brain rational thought process. We need to re-integrate the right brain impressionistic and intuitive part of our mind with the more logical side to move forward. Many of Einstein's theories were derived from his night time and day time dreamings and musings. The continue insistence on severing and polarizing the two different functions of the brain is the problem here.

Anything is possible. You just need a couple of billion $$$ to carry out any type of special research. I reckon they could have invested more on fusion, or propulsion systems allowing you to reach close to light speeds - but we got the LHC in CERN instead and we're just bashing around particles.
Thats science for you. Very selective in what is researched and what is not.

Originally posted by CasiusIgnoranze
Anything is possible. You just need a couple of billion $$$ to carry out any type of special research. I reckon they could have invested more on fusion, or propulsion systems allowing you to reach close to light speeds - but we got the LHC in CERN instead and we're just bashing around particles.
Thats science for you. Very selective in what is researched and what is not.

CERN Studies antimatter.

NASA & Antimatter propulsion


ITER Fusion research and energy production

ITER - Fusion Power Plant construction.

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If there were flying cars in our driveways there would still be people complaining we don't have them yet, simply because they never looked outside...