ATS members are being played like a fiddle... Dance! ATS Dance!

I just had to say something.

I'm using the present unfolding ME situation simply as an example

We have been watching all the various aspects of the ongoing ME crises unfolding before our eyes followed by many threads being posted in either the Breaking Alternative News and or Middle East Issues forums. I cant shake the feeling that there may be some dubious forces [Not necessarily ATS members] who are trying to play us for fools. We scurry about dutifully posting threads and replies on the subject with our slant or post our opinions. Playing right into their hands.

I know many of the topics are highly bipartisan and politically charged internally here in the US as well as international opinions [Both Pro and Con] It seems that many stories and threads are thrown about with accusations and counter accusations, claims and counter claims etc. [More so than usual IMO].

My question is this...

Has anybody else noticed this? I'm not attempting to single anyone out. We all have a right to post our opinions and make our arguments. That goes without saying. Take the recent ME issues regarding Libya, Egypt and now Syria. Or [ insert your favorite non related issues here ] We seem to be inundated with threads of claims and counter claims. One week it's a Wests failure when they don't assist then when they do get involved it's a crime and all about the oil etc. Meanwhile people are dying and being massacred.

I had to step back and take a deep breath. We pride ourselves and boast Deny Ignorance meanwhile every few seconds we see a new thread or a link provided with this or that version of Propaganda both Pro and Con. We members [no matter which side] make our arguments and draw the proverbial line in the sand.



Isn't this exactly what those who are trying to manipulate us want?


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cf50a48fe379.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well, I cannot speak for anyone else, other than myself SLAYER69.

I am not a Republican American.

I am not a Democratic American.

I am an Independent American.

And I do not sway easily.

Instead I look at both sides of every conflict and steer toward the middle.

Where the truth is always at and usually the truth is the first martyr of warfare.

As well I look at and examine the intent behind everything.

I could care less about the Middle East other than it has been feuding for thousands of years.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2447475e78a1.jpg[/atsimg]

If your emotions are tied to patriotism I have one suggestion for the Middle East.

As well as many Americans.

Or any other coutry for that matter

Dance, puppet, dance.

I think this goes for anything coming out at the moment.I believe nothing and trust no one on this issue.
Biggest part of war is the proper gander war.The proper gander is what the world see's,what is really going on ends up coming out on wiki leaks!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well, it surely doesn't hurt the ratings!

Yes, the MSM wants this, the governments want this, the corporations want this, the manufacturers want this, the religions want this, the blogosphere wants this, and the stubborn rigid-minded individuals want this. It creates energy, commerce, buzz, and purpose.

Come on, who wants a world where we only work 15 hours a week, and eat well, and enjoy our friends, families, and neighbors? Who wants a world where nothing is taboo, and everything is open and pleasureable? Who wants a boring ol' world where everyone has plenty and nobody is in conflict and strife? Where's the fun in that?

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

I could care less about the Middle East other than it has been feuding for thousands of years.

I see your point.
Although as stated in the OP that was just an example.

I have to wonder. You do make a valid argument.

One week it's a Wests failure when they don't assist then when they do get involved it's a crime and all about the oil etc.

The above quotation, I actually used in another thread. It was said by Ron Paul, during his address to congress.

www.youtube.com...

Well, posting on a forum is a waste if your looking to change things. A million brilliant minds full of truth and wisdom are but raving mad homeless men if communicating on an internet forum (not in reality, but it is the mainstream view). Change occurs with action, not forum postings. The only thing a forum may be good for is organizing meetings or civil disobedience and we already know ATS wouldn't allow anything of the sort. I come to ATS to see the latest headlines, read insights that I would not have, and comment on topics that interest me.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I agree...

The question then becomes how many of our members realize

"We are playing the part"

reply to post by SLAYER69


Explanation: S&F!

Personal Disclosure: It comes down to means vs ends... and what the membership COLLECTIVELY focuses on.

Is it the means being used OR is it the ends being gained???

To what ends are tptb using these endless forms of means to achieve?

Focusing on the means leads us nowhere.

Focusing on the ends doesn't tell us how they are achieving those ends.

Focusing on the means shows us where we can counteract upon those actions and derail them.

Focusing on the ends shows us tptb inherent attitude towards us collectivelly.

Where is ATS's collective focus aimed and what do we COLLECTIVELY hope to achieve?

EXPOSURE! is the only thing we can achieve... because we are not allowed by T&C's to do anything else.

I hope that clears up this issue for as many members who can comprehend that. ATS won't change the world.

But it may inform someone who can act outside the T&C's and motivate them to change it.

If and when that does happen... it will be bloody and violent! Because the only way to deal with monsters [aka tptb] is to kill them.

reply to post by SLAYER69


The devil is in the details as they say... Or as I have heard someone else put it "the secret to every victory lies in the organization of the non-obvious"

I believe that when we approach a topic in large generalizations we are doing two things

1. Unwittingly devaluing subtle nuance which may hold the keys to understanding.
2. Muddying the waters as others who share our emotional charge quickly support or attack the large generalization just made, with another opposing yet equally large generalization. This results in at least 3-4 posts echoing or decrying the original post and leaves us no closer to understanding the conspiracy.

The only answer to this is to approach these issues WITHOUT our emotional lense. Feel whatever it is we feel, but by golly remember that our original feeling might very well be the INTENDED RESULT of those who wrote the article, or planned the operation in question.

Here here Slayer!

No

People of US,UK and France are being played like a fiddle , again !

It's so simple ....Gaddafi or Libya not attacked US,France ,UK !!!
US,France ,UK are bombing and attacking Libya and Gaddafi. Tell me who is guilty here

You use 'ME' 3 times. Why are you talking in code? What does it mean?
I don't see ATS being any different to be frank. Are you suggesting some of the arguments are fabrications? It's just same old same old. There are enough delusional people on sites like this - we don't need any help from sinister forces.
As for people dying, in time old tradition, most people have limited attention spans and unless it's them about to die, they will move on to something else.
Japan is yesterday - until you get a sniff of radiation in your back yard. That's the way people have always been, sadly.

Originally posted by iceblue20-12
I think this goes for anything coming out at the moment.I believe nothing and trust no one on this issue.
Biggest part of war is the proper gander war.The proper gander is what the world see's,what is really going on ends up coming out on wiki leaks!

OK then. So who is the IMPROPER gander?

Goosy Goosy Gander?

reply to post by SLAYER69
yes we are being played like a second string fiddle, just what they want, whom ever they are MSM TPTB or the left /right, no more sitting "a" on the sidelines nor on the fence. It is time to decide for your self. Stand fast, defend your your thoughts/ beliefs, and take head not to be deceived.
S&F for you.

reply to post by SLAYER69


YES!! Thank you!! It is my personal belief that many conspiracy theories are planted!! PLANTED!!

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

I could care less about the Middle East other than it has been feuding for thousands of years.

I see your point.
Although as stated in the OP that was just an example.

You raise a good point. Don't we have to "play the part" in order to win the game? I mean if we want to bring anybody around to our point of view, don't we have to debate that point of view? Isn't your thread just another piece in the game?

I happened upon your thread, and a thread that made me think of the Ringing Cedars, and the notion that we are born with all the knowledge in the world. That thought process, combined with your thread made me think of the Socratic Method of "remembering information" vs. "learning."

I wonder if someone like Socrates could still have a profound effect today? I wonder if I could employ his principles to fluster and confound posters on ATS or lead them into discovering truth for themselves without ever stating a fact of my own?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

I could care less about the Middle East other than it has been feuding for thousands of years.

I see your point.
Although as stated in the OP that was just an example.

Of course and I was answering about the Middle East specifically.

Quite frankly, I'm not listening to those bickering, feuding, and or infighting anymore.

On all sides.

Color me forever jaded and hard-hearted.

I quit listening to them a long time ago.

I listen instead to the countless victims of fraud, deception, and murder.

They tell a much different story than those spreading lies through the White House, Congress, Senate, the State Department, Mossad, MI-5 and MI-6, the United Nations, you name it, those who are the victims of deceit are the only ones worthy of being listenend to anymore as far as I am concerned, because while sure some of the afore mentioned organizations have something to say in the victims stead, it is usually tied to some bogus agenda I am tired of seeing through and hearing through the propaganda and lies because while I can certainly see through their nonsense I am quite frankly done listening to it.

After a while deciphering lies into truth makes one infuriated enough to say enough is enough.

I do not care anymore.

No one is worth listening to other than the victims.

reply to post by xavi1000


I appreciate the stance on the ME issue again it was just an example.

AND

Your reply was a great example of what I'm talking about.
If you catch my drift...

reply to post by SLAYER69


We ran a propaganda campaign in Egypt trying to get regime change. (Which I think was a right left battle in the US. Bush liked the way it was so he could torture. Obama hated it because it was a way for Bush to torture.)
egypt.usaid.gov...

democracy & governance snapshot

USAID programs have increased access to justice for more than 16,000 children and 8,700 families.
2000 media professionals have been trained through USAID programs.
USAID supported the training of more than 13,000 local election observers nationwide.
More than 100 USAID-supported joint community-local government initiatives have been created to solve local problems.

USAID is involved in voting "13,000 local election observers",media "2000 media professionals" and not to mention the OEV. "Operation Earnest Voice" ran by the DOD and State Department.
I think I have one connect the dots that will show how this software is used for destabilization of countries.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

According to the contract between US Central Command (Centcom) and California company Ntrepid, the software would let each user control 10 personas, each "replete with background, history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographically consistent." The software would also be able to let personas "appear to originate in nearly any part of the world" and interact through "conventional online services and social media platforms," while using a static IP address for each persona to maintain a consistent online identity.

OK So we have a company name. Ntrepid

www.linkedin.com...

Ntrepid Corporation Activity on LinkedIn

Ramzi Asmar is now Analyst at Ntrepid Corporation
was Research Fellow at Matthew B. Ridgway Center for International Security Studies
6 hours ago

We have a name. Ramzi Asmar

www.linkedin.com...

Ramzi Asmar
Title
--
Demographic info
Washington D.C. Metro Area | Government Relations
Education: University of Pittsburgh, University of Balamand, West Virginia University Summary: Conduct detailed All-Source Intelligence Analysis and paralleling the analysis with Socio-Cultural understanding of the Middle East. Linguistic s...

www.policymic.com...

How Social Media Has Become the New Weapon in the Middle East
By Heba Taha | Topics: Middle East Issues | Posted on: Tuesday January 25th 2011

At the bottom of the page.

Photo Credit: Ramzi Asmar

I suggest reading the article above."How Social Media Has Become the New Weapon in the Middle East"

www.centcom.mil...

Heres CENTCOM saying they work with the State Department in there Operation Earnest Voice chaos program of propaganda.

www.centcom.mil...

In the past year, CENTCOM has pursued several initiatives to improve our capabilities in the information domain, and we have coordinated these actions closely with the State Department’s Undersecretary for Public Diplomacy, Judith McHale.

In the broader CENTCOM AOR, Operation Earnest Voice (OEV) is the critical program of record that resources our efforts to synchronize our Information Operations activities, to counter extremist ideology and propaganda, and to ensure that credible voices in the region are heard. OEV provides CENTCOM with direct communication capabilities to reach regional audiences through traditional media as well as via websites and regional public affairs blogging. In each of these efforts, we follow the admonition we practiced in Iraq, that of trying to be “first with the truth.” Full and enduring funding of OEV and other DoD information operations efforts will, in coordination with State Department initiatives, enable us to do just that and, in so doing, to communicate critical messages and to counter the propaganda of our adversaries.

Activities in Cyberspace

Cyberspace has become an extension of the battlefield and we cannot allow it to be uncontested enemy territory. Indeed, in the years ahead, extremist activities in cyberspace will undoubtedly pose increasing threats to our military and our Nation as a whole. DOD and other elements of our government are, of course, working to come to grips with this emerging threat. Clearly, this is an area in which we need to develop additional policies, build capabilities, and ensure adequate resources. I suspect, in fact, that legislation will be required over time, as well.

Heres some info on the militaries State Department connection. "Judith McHale"

www.state.gov...

I allways thought that Discovery channel was government ran. Just look at the people from that channel who promoted the government view during the BP spill.

Ms. McHale is the former President and Chief Executive Officer of Discovery Communications. For two decades, Ms. McHale was a leader in building Discovery Communications, the parent company of the Discovery Channel, into a far-reaching and renowned global media enterprise with 1.4 billion subscribers in 170 countries.

Shes also connected with MTV, VH1 and Nickelodeon.

In the 1980s, Ms. McHale served as General Counsel for MTV Networks, overseeing legal affairs for MTV, Nickelodeon and VH-1. Drawing on the experience developed over many years living abroad, Ms. McHale became a principal architect of the company’s rapid international expansion.

200 schools and community centers throughout rural Africa, Latin America, and Eastern Europe.

edit on 24-3-2011 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by SLAYER69


I thoroughly enjoyed your OP and it makes a great deal of sense. I wonder how the situation might be corrected. Being a open forum things often get side tracked in a normal conversation and topics, regardless of what they originally where get confused. With the subject matter and ever changing input the situation gets even cloudier. Any ideas, anyone?