Scientists create animals that are part-human

Lets define the school, we're being tested on a daily basis, and no one knows when the exam for individuals or the whole class, generation, is suddenly over, pencils down.

A deep thinker can begin to figure this out.

Consciousness/Soul/Light, as opposed to the other kind of energy, mc2, condensed energy waves that form this hologram around us. We're the drivers of the vehicle.

Progression or regression is the test. Infinity is the medium we exist in, and it can't be measured, so there is No Time, no up/down, higher/lower, bigger/smaller except as ideas, perceptions. Time relates to orbits in the school. The infinites exist within and without all objects and they equal endless space, and the mass of endless space in an atom, in a grain of sand and in a star is all equal, they're equally endless in volume. You could fit a whole infintie universe inside an atom if you knew how, and were a Higher up!

A grain of sand and star can be halved unto infinity, though you no longer see them, they exist.

Consciousness regressing is like that as well.

What is the signs of progressing consciousness: Feelings and Empathy for all beings and all things, and especially for other human beings. Questioning the world around you and searching for answers. Withdrawing support from those things you know are wrong. Making choices. Service To Others.

Its not OK to assume and trust the establishment that they're operating with ethics.

Conscious awareness tells us otherwise: war, starvation, homelessness, cancer adn illnesses, Big Drug Companies Profit! Their abuse of other countries liberties and their lies concerning all space programs, their perpetual corruption and abuses. This planet is a hellzone to all but a tiny privileged elite, and to all nature.

Trust the wolves? Really?

Originally posted by n0tsan3
Meet someone with a degenerative brain disease and then tell me that experiments on animals is wrong. I think experimenting on lower life forms for the sake of a medical break through is well worth it. Maybe I'm just a degenerate but I think this is fine.

I understand where you're coming from and respectfully say
I am one of those people with a degenerative brain disease and I find it wrong in my heart, to create any animal for the sole purpose of killing it to "possibly" save another living species. If that sheep fetus would positively save my life I still would not take its life to save mine.

I will carry the burden I was mean't to carry. It has made me a better person to others and myself. I wouldn't change that for the world. This is the path I am suppose to take.

p.s. I'm not a vegan or a peta supporter. I just feel how I feel on this topic.

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed
reply to post by Turtlecheif

 

How many animal lives is it worth sacrificing to save (and by save I am sure you mean prolong, you can't save someone from death) just one human? Would you give the go ahead to the killing of 10,000 animals to save your own, or just accept your inevitable death?

If we are truly moral creatures, we should work toward improving the quality of life of ALL creatures, not just humans. There can be no end to suffering in the world, but we can work to minimize unnecessary cruelty.

Depends on what animals,maybe not 10,000(kind of a ridiculous number for you to choose to get a point across???) if it came down to survival of our species then yeah, And injecting sheep with Stem cells is hardly cruel, This is part of science and it's not like science has never used animals before,would you rather they test on human subjects first? Animals reproduce all the time I dont see sheep going extinct from this and from the pic doesn't look like they are suffering much.

Why must folks keep insisting this is progress? Earth is already a house of horrors, why create further sideshows? The kind of progress we really need all has to do with satisfying the basic human needs which have been neglected. If we started caring for ourselves we wouldn't need to be harvesting organs out of goats. Humans got by for hundreds of thousands of years, perhaps even millions, without any of this intensely strange stuff. How is this not taboo when testing shampoos on rabbits is frowned upon? Also, if you're into the whole creationist thing, tampering with the designer's design is a direct insult.

Originally posted by spacekc929
The hugest hypocrisy in this thread is that none of the people who are railing against the experimentation because of its 'cruelty' are vegans; none of the people on this thread would refuse the antibiotics for diseases which have been formulated and tested on animals; anyone here who has ever worn contacts or needed eye drops has had their products tested on animals first so that it would not burn up our own eyes. None of you are part of the ASPCA, donating to actually save cats and dogs and other animals from real abuse and fighting rings - I bet you are not even thinking about things like dog fighting rings right now.

The fact of the matter is, if you are going to rail against something (animal cruelty) then you had better not participate in it yourself by using the very products which are created through animal testing, and you had darn well better not eat the animals and the products of the animals which are created through cruel means. They keep chickens in cages where they cannot even move, they dip them in boiling water to remove their feathers BEFORE they are dead. They hook female cows up to machines and force them to produce as much milk as possible and force them to have as many children as possible, regardless of the effect on her. And yet you will still eat a hamburger or have a bowl of cereal, won't you? She's just a cow; she's not a cute little lamb or an adorable little mouse.

I'm not saying animal testing is alright. I am saying that when something benefits us, we are all for it, like when we're hungry for a hamburger, but when we cannot see an immediate benefit, such as in the case of organ donation, we immediately harp about the animal abuse and animal's 'feelings'. As if their feelings don't matter when we're eating a Steak or Chicken Nuggets or Scrambled Eggs, but their feelings matter so much when there might be a scientific advancement made at their expense. Take a look at your own lives and stop your abusive behavior towards animals before railing against others for it.

I eat meat, yummy, yummy meat. MMMMM...

But I still think this is stepping over the line. It evokes a disxurbing feeling to me. I don't think creating chimeras is ethical at all; it seems to cross an invisible ethical boundary with me. Play with plant genes, go ahead; create hybrid plants, go ahead; but splicing animal genes together? I don't think so buddy.

Originally posted by Bachrk

Originally posted by n0tsan3
Meet someone with a degenerative brain disease and then tell me that experiments on animals is wrong. I think experimenting on lower life forms for the sake of a medical break through is well worth it. Maybe I'm just a degenerate but I think this is fine.

I understand where you're coming from and respectfully say
I am one of those people with a degenerative brain disease and I find it wrong in my heart, to create any animal for the sole purpose of killing it to "possibly" save another living species. If that sheep fetus would positively save my life I still would not take its life to save mine.

I will carry the burden I was mean't to carry. It has made me a better person to others and myself. I wouldn't change that for the world. This is the path I am suppose to take.

p.s. I'm not a vegan or a peta supporter. I just feel how I feel on this topic.

I'm very sorry to hear about your condition, but dont you think it's wrong to just sit back and accept your condition and not want to fight for your life?, it seems like your a FATE person which kinda stinks because the Idea of not having control of the choices you make and your life in general well...stinks! To me thats kinda like commiting a slow suicide

This is disturbing. Continue playing god. "Mice on a larger scale" Some people think the same about people. When will it ever stop? The next thing you know prisoners or mentally ill people will be in labs.

Look it's either test on Animals or Humans!! pick one. It has to be done to further research for the good of mankind or eventually all life, Mankind is still learning everyday, We are not a highly advanced race who has it all figured out. We are still learning more and more everyday,so right now in this day and age yes we do need animals to experiment on to further our knowledge of a variety of things, If anyone has an Idea on how to come up with new medicines,surgery procedures,cures for diseases without experimenting first, i'd love to hear it.. At this point in time it has to be done it has nothing to do with being cruel people or being cruel to Animals it for the sake of advancment of our race

reply to post by Screwed


Your argument is just semantic drivel.

Our species is Homo Sapiens, we are not reptiles. Deal with it.

Originally posted by NewEmpire816

Originally posted by Bachrk

Originally posted by n0tsan3
Meet someone with a degenerative brain disease and then tell me that experiments on animals is wrong. I think experimenting on lower life forms for the sake of a medical break through is well worth it. Maybe I'm just a degenerate but I think this is fine.

I understand where you're coming from and respectfully say
I am one of those people with a degenerative brain disease and I find it wrong in my heart, to create any animal for the sole purpose of killing it to "possibly" save another living species. If that sheep fetus would positively save my life I still would not take its life to save mine.

I will carry the burden I was mean't to carry. It has made me a better person to others and myself. I wouldn't change that for the world. This is the path I am suppose to take.

p.s. I'm not a vegan or a peta supporter. I just feel how I feel on this topic.

I'm very sorry to hear about your condition, but dont you think it's wrong to just sit back and accept your condition and not want to fight for your life?, it seems like your a FATE person which kinda stinks because the Idea of not having control of the choices you make and your life in general well...stinks! To me thats kinda like commiting a slow suicide

Now I'm not one to give up. I did go through a stem cell transplant procedure at Northwestern in Chicago a few years back. They removed some of my own stem cells, cleaned them or whatever and put them back in me to try and reverse my sickness. It didn't work. It was a long, tough, process both physically and mentally but I'm too stubborn to give up. Self preservation is in us all, I won't lay down and die. I won't give up but still my heart tells me this is wrong.

Originally posted by soaringhawk
This is disturbing. Continue playing god. "Mice on a larger scale" Some people think the same about people. When will it ever stop? The next thing you know or will be in labs.

God I hope not! Thats nothing new they've already done that, i just read on MSN about a week or two ago how the Medical Association have confessed to experimenting on prisoners/mentally ill people, heck hitler was doing it! that idea is not new and has happened already, I think Animals are a far better choice

Originally posted by NewEmpire816

Originally posted by Bachrk

Originally posted by n0tsan3
Meet someone with a degenerative brain disease and then tell me that experiments on animals is wrong. I think experimenting on lower life forms for the sake of a medical break through is well worth it. Maybe I'm just a degenerate but I think this is fine.

I understand where you're coming from and respectfully say
I am one of those people with a degenerative brain disease and I find it wrong in my heart, to create any animal for the sole purpose of killing it to "possibly" save another living species. If that sheep fetus would positively save my life I still would not take its life to save mine.

I will carry the burden I was mean't to carry. It has made me a better person to others and myself. I wouldn't change that for the world. This is the path I am suppose to take.

p.s. I'm not a vegan or a peta supporter. I just feel how I feel on this topic.

I'm very sorry to hear about your condition, but dont you think it's wrong to just sit back and accept your condition and not want to fight for your life?, it seems like your a FATE person which kinda stinks because the Idea of not having control of the choices you make and your life in general well...stinks! To me thats kinda like commiting a slow suicide

Bachrk, You have more intelligence than what most people we see everyday have.

Originally posted by wiredamerican
reply to post by OptimisticPessimist

 

We are truly doomed as a (benevolent) species unless we can get away from these common and vile abuses of the living creatures of this once beautiful planet

One step at a time, one step at a time. Right now with human scientific research we need other animals to simulate our experiments. It is the best way we know how to do it so far.

With time, we will figure out how to do this with just a super computer or two, just give it a couple more years. That is all that is asked.

All animal experiments are not done in vein, but in hope. We hope to learn enough through this biological testing phase right now, in order to learn to learn our answers to our questions we raise in our simulation science experiments in non biological harming tests.

Just a couple more years is all it will take. I promise.

Imagine if we could cross-engineer an animal/human to be able to swim into the depths of the ocean. That opens up all sorts of exploration possibilities. Or say, have sonic capabilities for underground exploration. Or, to breathe another atmosphere, withstand extreme temps, on and on it goes. The potentials are amazing. You can't get to those points in development simply by doing nothing.

If I recall my history well enough, not too distant in the past society had an issue with human autopsies. This is how we learn. Sadly, we are not perfect biologically or mentally. We could design that. Why not?

On a different note, however, killing creature simply because they exhibit human traits is horrible. Again, let them live. Especially if they are sentient.

Originally posted by Bachrk

Originally posted by NewEmpire816

Originally posted by Bachrk

Originally posted by n0tsan3
Meet someone with a degenerative brain disease and then tell me that experiments on animals is wrong. I think experimenting on lower life forms for the sake of a medical break through is well worth it. Maybe I'm just a degenerate but I think this is fine.

I understand where you're coming from and respectfully say
I am one of those people with a degenerative brain disease and I find it wrong in my heart, to create any animal for the sole purpose of killing it to "possibly" save another living species. If that sheep fetus would positively save my life I still would not take its life to save mine.

I will carry the burden I was mean't to carry. It has made me a better person to others and myself. I wouldn't change that for the world. This is the path I am suppose to take.

p.s. I'm not a vegan or a peta supporter. I just feel how I feel on this topic.

I'm very sorry to hear about your condition, but dont you think it's wrong to just sit back and accept your condition and not want to fight for your life?, it seems like your a FATE person which kinda stinks because the Idea of not having control of the choices you make and your life in general well...stinks! To me thats kinda like commiting a slow suicide

Now I'm not one to give up. I did go through a stem cell transplant procedure at Northwestern in Chicago a few years back. They removed some of my own stem cells, cleaned them or whatever and put them back in me to try and reverse my sickness. It didn't work. It was a long, tough, process both physically and mentally but I'm too stubborn to give up. Self preservation is in us all, I won't lay down and die. I won't give up but still my heart tells me this is wrong.

edit on 24-3-2011 by Bachrk because: spelling

I'm very sorry to hear that and meant no disrespect,I'm glad you gave it a shot or atleast are not giving up hope, For not having any condition i do not understand what you have went through and couldn't even imagine, you have brought tears to my eyes with your post ( I feel like a jerk) I love you man dont give up and I hope you make a full recovery just keep pushing.

reply to post by spacekc929

The hugest hypocrisy in this thread is that none of the people who are railing against the experimentation because of its 'cruelty' are vegans; none of the people on this thread would refuse the antibiotics for diseases which have been formulated and tested on animals; anyone here who has ever worn contacts or needed eye drops has had their products tested on animals first so that it would not burn up our own eyes. None of you are part of the ASPCA, donating to actually save cats and dogs and other animals from real abuse and fighting rings - I bet you are not even thinking about things like dog fighting rings right now.

How dare you make such assumptions?

How the hell do you know that none of the people on this thread are vegans? And how the hell do you know no-one donates to animal charities?
You 'know' this, how? Because we don't state that we are vegans or donate to charities in our posts?

I am not part of the ASPCA or the RSPCA, but I donate regularly to animal charities every month and have done for years.

And I'll tell you something else too, just so I can put you right - I have been VERY active in preventing animal cruelty, rescuing pets and animals from cruel treatment by their owners, and in some cases it has led to court appearances where these cruel, sadistic people have been prosecuted, convicted and banned for up to 10 years from keeping an animal of any kind as a result of what I have reported. If it was up to me they'd all rot in jail for a long time.

If I hear so much of a whisper about an animal being mistreated, I will and have actively made it my business to do something about it - anyone who knows me knows that is guaranteed!!!

So don't come on here telling everyone that you 'know' when you so obviously know less than nothing about the people posting on this thread.

Thank you.

ETA: And no. I don't use cosmetics, and I do not take meds that are not herbal.

Originally posted by NewEmpire816

Originally posted by Bachrk

Originally posted by NewEmpire816

Originally posted by Bachrk

Originally posted by n0tsan3
Meet someone with a degenerative brain disease and then tell me that experiments on animals is wrong. I think experimenting on lower life forms for the sake of a medical break through is well worth it. Maybe I'm just a degenerate but I think this is fine.

I understand where you're coming from and respectfully say
I am one of those people with a degenerative brain disease and I find it wrong in my heart, to create any animal for the sole purpose of killing it to "possibly" save another living species. If that sheep fetus would positively save my life I still would not take its life to save mine.

I will carry the burden I was mean't to carry. It has made me a better person to others and myself. I wouldn't change that for the world. This is the path I am suppose to take.

p.s. I'm not a vegan or a peta supporter. I just feel how I feel on this topic.

I'm very sorry to hear about your condition, but dont you think it's wrong to just sit back and accept your condition and not want to fight for your life?, it seems like your a FATE person which kinda stinks because the Idea of not having control of the choices you make and your life in general well...stinks! To me thats kinda like commiting a slow suicide

Now I'm not one to give up. I did go through a stem cell transplant procedure at Northwestern in Chicago a few years back. They removed some of my own stem cells, cleaned them or whatever and put them back in me to try and reverse my sickness. It didn't work. It was a long, tough, process both physically and mentally but I'm too stubborn to give up. Self preservation is in us all, I won't lay down and die. I won't give up but still my heart tells me this is wrong.

edit on 24-3-2011 by Bachrk because: spelling

I'm very sorry to hear that and meant no disrespect,I'm glad you gave it a shot or atleast are not giving up hope, For not having any condition i do not understand what you have went through and couldn't even imagine, you have brought tears to my eyes with your post ( I feel like a jerk) I love you man dont give up and I hope you make a full recovery just keep pushing.

You're not a jerk at all and I appreciate your kind words more than you'll ever know.

reply to post by OptimisticPessimist


I would assume then if one of your children needed a life saving procedure that was gleaned through this type of R and D, you would refuse it due to your ethical concerns?

I still value the human life over that of the sheep. Cold, perhaps, but i know if i needed to save my childs life i would not hesitate.

Folks, we are not talking about a little gene splicing here. This is not slicing some jellyfish DNA into a zebrafish to make it glow.

These are mice with FULLY HUMAN BRAINS. That makes them human. You cannot make a human brain out of mouse braincells, nor can you make a mouse brain out of human brain cells. These are humans trapped in the body of a mouse, with deformed brains, but still and I stress this, fully human! Furthermore...they are children.

What will you think when these sick experiments are done on animals large enough for the brain to fully develop? Are you comfortable with a fully human brain trapped in the body of a great ape? Oh that's right, not gonna happen. If it acts too human, they will murder it.

Dr. Mengele never did anything this evil.

Originally posted by jeantherapy
Why must folks keep insisting this is progress? Earth is already a house of horrors, why create further sideshows? The kind of progress we really need all has to do with satisfying the basic human needs which have been neglected. If we started caring for ourselves we wouldn't need to be harvesting organs out of goats. Humans got by for hundreds of thousands of years, perhaps even millions, without any of this intensely strange stuff. How is this not taboo when testing shampoos on rabbits is frowned upon? Also, if you're into the whole creationist thing, tampering with the designer's design is a direct insult.

No not everyone got bye, Thousands or most likely millions of people also died from the smallest things for thousands or millions of years, little things such as toothaches,broken bones, injuries,what now is a common cold, even a small gash in your leg could get infected and you could die a thousand years ago, can you imagine dying from a simple cold???what a rip off! The experiments we have done since have saved lives when it comes to someone getting any of the above mentioned or worse, not everybody got bye, your forgetting the thousands even millions of people who's died from such small things that if it wasnt for Science and experimenting we'd still be falling victim to today

The thought of messing with other sentient animals makes me feel ill.

If an alien race came down and forced injections in us that caused cancer [guaranteed] and left us all to die in a cage so they can harvest the DNA of the people who managed to survive, we'd not have a leg to stand on and complain really with the things we do to armies of lab rats and stuff. As soon as it involves humans being hurt-- oh no, can't have that!