Creator or Chance Accident - I will prove this to you!

reply to post by SuperiorEd

God does this for you. Take a look sometime and read nature for what it is. A reflection of God and you can read the information. How astounding!

Complete and utter nonsense...welcome to the 21st century, because what you post is like what a guy from the middle ages would have posted.

Stop preaching and start looking at objective evidence, reality is awesome, and you're being ignorant in closing your eyes and ears to reality. You don't even bother to back up any of your posts with objective evidence, they are therefore 100% useless and laughable

Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2).
He recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed.

AND OTHER GREAT MINDS OF SCIENCE...
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543) Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627) Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)

Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) Rene Descartes (1596-1650) Isaac Newton (1642-1727) Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday (1791-1867) Gregor Mendel (1822-1884) William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)

Max Planck (1858-1947) And Paul Davies One of The Greatest Minds of Today- (born April 22, 1946) is a British-born, internationally acclaimed physicist, writer and broadcaster, who holds the position of Professor of Natural Philosophy in the Australian Centre for Astrobiology at Macquarie University, Sydney. He has held previous academic appointments at the University of Cambridge, University of London, University of Newcastle upon Tyne and University of Adelaide. His research interests are in the fields of cosmology, quantum field theory, and astrobiology.

He is the author of over twenty books, including (The Mind of God)

reply to post by SuperiorEd

THE ONLY thing in our marvelous universe that can create order out of chaos (negentropy, or syntropy) is life and consciousness.

No. You have been shown several times, using different examples, that this is not true. You are wrong.

Do just a little physics research

Physics was my university degree subject. How much physics do you know?

Notice that the universe was once at a state of high order and low entropy. Entropy increases (disorder) in the universe. WHY????

Because the amount of energy available for doing work in the universe is constantly being used up. Because there are a lot more potential state configurations of disorder than there are possible ordered states, so disorder is more probable than order.

I've got to hand it to myself, this is the best proof yet!!

Yes, you'd better hand it to yourself because no-one else is going to hand it to you.

reply to post by Faith2011


I hope you see the difference between them stating their personal BELIEF which isn't backed up by objective evidence, and their scientific studies that are backed up by objective evidence. Also, not how most of the scientists you listed are from the 19th century apart from 2 of them...science is now able to explain a lot of the things Newton attributed to god for example.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

The entire universe is a copy above as below. The macrocosm is a copy of the microcosm. Your body is a universe of trillions of cells. Look up and you see the same. Look down and you see the fractal of what you see above. As a prelude to your next comment below and to answer the one above.

I look up and I see burning gaseous stars and small rocky bodies. I've yet to see red blood cells, or horses grazing on nebula.

Not all regresses are vicious. Do some research.

Research on what exactly? I've already looked into the whole universe is a simulation theory before, it's woefully unscientific. You simply can not prove that there exists something outside of a simulation.

No, we are the only species that creates more than we are by am improbable degree of difference, both mentally and physically.

Sadly, we are not the only species capable of counting, self awareness, tool making, shelter building, invention, culture, ingenuity, war, language or ritualistic behaviorism. We may take a lot of those things to the more advance extremes, but we are not the only ones who posses those qualities.

Simply put, we're just not that special.

Sorry. Physics is the theory of the governor.

So your computer only theoretically can possibly be working right now? Water can only theoretically drown you? Come on, and you wonder why Atheists attack theists, your arguments are just void of common sense and basic understanding.

Again, not all regresses are vicious. The simple definition you give of entropy does not nearly cover what is observed from non-living matter when considering entropy. When the cup of coffee makes itself and keeps itself warm, then you have an argument.

You have a lot to learn about entropy. A cup of coffee is a closed system, a biological entity is an open system. You take it from there and run along to learn something.

This thread and the fact were are forcing our consciousness to rise by debating the obvious.

I'm a determinist.

You do not understand because you are not thinking philosophically with your reason and logic when considering the implications of the science we hold as mere theory. God creates what is seen by what is not visible (Hebrews 11:3).

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. This is something brought from nothing that is visible.

Much like the light you see things by. It is not the light that is visible, it's the thing it reflects on. As I have said before, a mirror cannot see itself except in reflection. You are a mirror and so is matter. Think this through and you will see that possibility is infinite before the infinity of future events. This is a paradox since God draws the future into the past for us to see both directions. We see the future as it comes from the future, yet we already know it from the past. Did I still lose you?

What about the other various thousands of deities who claim the same? What if, hypothetically we meet an advanced alien species who has different religious views. Surely they would be more right than us because their consciousnesses allowed them to do even more amazing things than we could do!

Sorry, we are bio-mechanical and you are assuming this from a state of locked perspective and disadvantaged point of view.

I'll stop here so you can sift through what I have said so far. The rest of what followed is just commentary on what is above. As below, so above in this case and any other.

Right... Organic.

A dead seed rots in the ground. WHY????

Bacteria consume it.

reply to post by Faith2011


[quote]Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2).
He recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed.

I suppose perhaps Einstein was a very indecisive man, or perhaps... theists latch onto to any mention of God and readily assume that Einstein was a religious man.

Einstein has this to say to you...

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."



Einstein also said:

"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion. I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism. The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive."


Read more: wiki.answers.com...


So flipping sick of people trying to say Einstein was a religious god fearing man. He wasn't, get used to it people.

reply to post by sirnex


The point being Einstein believed in a Creator! He saw Purpose is a Result From The Perfect Order of Creation!

Yes, He claimed not to know God personally, But he was Honest enough to say their Was A Creation From A Creator/God)

"I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
Suffering leads to reward. Reward leads to suffering. There are no exceptions. Show me one and I'll point to something that came before the other. Buddha almost had it right. He tried to escape suffering through renunciation. He was wrong. The direction suffering takes is what is important.

I don't think anything is left to chance, because our own thoughts and choices create our reality every step we take.

I do think most people suffer, because they believe they must. Obviously Job felt he should suffer and be tested and when he suffered enough, he allowed himself to be rewarded again. Suffering is a CHOICE , as well as, happiness. We can either rise above the restrictions placed on us from birth or continue to go against the tide. I think eventually when a person realizes he doesn't have to struggle, he attains bliss and the earth is no longer a challenge.

I like your reference to 'upgrades' even though I think we are much more than a biological computer or nanobot, The computer is an extension of we ourselves and knowledge of a collective. As we grow and come to an understanding that we are all connected and everything is a reflection of ourselves, we know we don't have to struggle. It takes many experiences to get to that point and the ultimate upgrade is attaining that higher consciousness or christ consciousness. It's real!

If we are connected to everything, there is no separation from the Source. That's an illusion.

Originally posted by Faith2011
reply to post by sirnex

 

The point being Einstein believed in a Creator! He saw Purpose is a Result From The Perfect Order of Creation!

Yes, He claimed not to know God personally, But he was Honest enough to say their Was A Creation From A Creator/God)

"I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed.

You're argument from authority is a pretty bad attempt at convincing people...
Why argument from authority is laughable

It doesn't matter who said something, so whether it was Einstein or Hitler, it really doesn't matter...what matters is the content and wether or not it's backed up by objective evidence. When Newton and Einstein stated their PERSONAL BELIEF, they did NOT back it up with objective evidence. Which should make it abundantly clear why your argumentation is seriously flawed...

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Faith2011

 

The thing is, Newton's laws are still valid because we can objectively verify them. However, science completely debunked many of the bible's claims, like global flood.

I don't believe science has debunked a global flood. Geological strata and marine fossils prove there has been a global flood and this is just my opinion, but I believe there has been more than one flood. I think a person could find much information on this. What's interesting to me is Sargon the Great came from the water in a basket like Moses. I don't think we can all take the bible literally, because it was written by man and more than one jealous so called god, lol.

I also believe that nature is the a most perfect example of the "Source", if you would prefer that noun. I don't think there is a god sitting on a throne, but there is definitely more to 'us'.

reply to post by Onboard2

Geological strata and marine fossils prove there has been a global flood and this is just my opinion

Then your opinion's wrong

There were numerous LOCAL floods in earth's history...but if there ever was such a thing as a global flood, it would have left sedimental evidence behind, and there's NONE.

reply to post by Faith2011


Praise God, the enemy and his demons are defeated by Jesus Christ the lamb of God

col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, trumphing over them in it.

He took the keys of death hell and the grave away from satan.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Onboard2

 

Geological strata and marine fossils prove there has been a global flood and this is just my opinion

Then your opinion's wrong

There were numerous LOCAL floods in earth's history...but if there ever was such a thing as a global flood, it would have left sedimental evidence behind, and there's NONE.

Prove it! I have read differing evidence.

reply to post by MrXYZ


"Respecting the Deluge there can be but one opinion: geology fully confirms the scriptural history of the event. Whales, sharks, crocodiles, amphibians, mammoths, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, hyenas, tigers, deer, horses, bullpine families are found buried together in deluvian at a greater or lesser depth and in most instances, under circumstances indicating that they were buried by the same catastrophe which destroyed them, namely a sudden and violent deluge."

Evolutionist Richard Carrington, in The Story of Our Earth, a secular publication, admitted,

"Of the many kinds of animals inhabiting the earth at the time vast numbers were swept completely away. Not only individuals, but whole races were destroyed. Extermination overtook the animals of the land, sea and air with equal indifference. When the holocaust was over the whole aspect of life on earth had changed."180/155

leading scholars such as Dr. James Trofle of George Mason University have admitted that the dinosaurs were struck by catastrophe. He wrote,
"That they present this kind of pattern: suddenly their fossils disappear from the rocks. And when I say ‘suddenly’ I mean a time that could be as long as 100,000 years or as short as a weekend—we can’t tell the difference. At the same time the dinosaurs disappeared, all the other species we talked about, from ocean plankton to some flowering plants, disappeared as well. Paleontologists term this sort of event in which many species disappear at the same time as ‘mass extinction.’"

There have been mass extinctions both in the flood (2252 B.C.) and in the time of Peleg (2151 B.C.).181 This is recognized by leading scholars to one degree or another even though the time frame and the terminology will very.

Dr. John R. Hornet in Digging for Dinosaurs stated,

"Judging from the concentration of bones in various pits, there were 30 million fossil fragments in that area. At a conservative estimate, we had discovered the tomb of 10,000 dinosaurs. There was a flood. This was no ordinary spring flood from one of the streams in the area but a catastrophic inundation. . . That’s our best explanation. It seems to make the most sense, and on the basis of it we believe that this was a living, breathing group of dinosaurs destroyed in one catastrophic moment."182/131

Other than the Biblical Record, are there other reportings of the world wide flood? Yes! Dr. Johannes Tiem stated that,

"Among all traditions there is none so general so wide spread on earth of the fact that the deluge is granted because of the basis of all myths in particular in nature myths having a real basis in fact."
Listed by Dr. Richard Blick an abbreviation of the areas where flood legends have occurred: Asia, Africa, Europe, North America, South America, and the Pacific; the Armenians, the Syrians, the Babylonians, the Chaldians, the Hebrews, the Indo Arianes, the Japanese, the Kernels, the Mongols, the Persians, the Phoenicians, the Pythicans, the Tartans, and others who have this basic concept in their literature, there history and their legends. In Africa the Pergama, Carthagians, Egyptians, Hotontots, Subenys. In Europe the Druids, the Germans, the Greeks, the Gypsies, the Icelanders, the Lapplanders, the Lithuanians, the Nors, the Romans, the Slavs, the Bolgols, and the Welch all talk about a global flood. In North America the Algonquins, the Arapahos, the Aztecs, the Cherokees, the Crees, the Eskimos, the Galacous, the Kaulos, the Miens, the Mohicans, the Papagos, the Piwas, the Saggualives, the Texri, the Tlingits, the Toltecs. In South America the Curas, the Incas, the Miurs, the Tomas. In the Pacific the Batiks, the Fabians, the Hawaiians, the Melanesians, the Macanisians, the Moranisians, the New Hebrides and the South Polynesians Islands all refer to a global flood. The following are tangible, measurable, observable confirmations of a world wide flood:"[www.layevangelism.com...

www.earthage.org...

Catastrophic displacements of enormous plates of the earth’s crust provided the driving force for the global flood and produced the deep spaces for the oceans to drain into after the global flood.

The majority of our planet's sedimentary rock appears to have accumulated rapidly by means of a worldwide flood. Single layers were quickly formed that covered large parts of the globe.

Fault surfaces that contain zones characterized by microbreccias and pseudotachylite are evidences for rapid displacements.

www.icr.org...

reply to post by Faith2011

"Respecting the Deluge there can be but one opinion: geology fully confirms the scriptural history of the event. Whales, sharks, crocodiles, amphibians, mammoths, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, hyenas, tigers, deer, horses, bullpine families are found buried together in deluvian at a greater or lesser depth and in most instances, under circumstances indicating that they were buried by the same catastrophe which destroyed them, namely a sudden and violent deluge."

Again, how does that prove a global flood? If what you're saying is true, we'd find this all around the world and all those fossils would be dated the same age...which simply isn't a case. You can copy/paste from layevangelism.com all you want, but fact is, they're lying

"Of the many kinds of animals inhabiting the earth at the time vast numbers were swept completely away. Not only individuals, but whole races were destroyed. Extermination overtook the animals of the land, sea and air with equal indifference. When the holocaust was over the whole aspect of life on earth had changed."180/155

RC was an ASTRONOMER who lived in the 19th century...in no way did he have geological or paleontological knowledge that would back up his claims. Of course local floods happened, but again, a global flood would require this to leave behind remains all dated the same age...which hasn't happened. Mass extinctions happened of course, but there's ZERO evidence for a global flood

"That they present this kind of pattern: suddenly their fossils disappear from the rocks. And when I say ‘suddenly’ I mean a time that could be as long as 100,000 years or as short as a weekend—we can’t tell the difference. At the same time the dinosaurs disappeared, all the other species we talked about, from ocean plankton to some flowering plants, disappeared as well. Paleontologists term this sort of event in which many species disappear at the same time as ‘mass extinction.’"

Yes, mass extinctions happen, even today (the bees are dying out in the US for example)...but that doesn't prove a global flood.

"Judging from the concentration of bones in various pits, there were 30 million fossil fragments in that area. At a conservative estimate, we had discovered the tomb of 10,000 dinosaurs. There was a flood. This was no ordinary spring flood from one of the streams in the area but a catastrophic inundation. . . That’s our best explanation. It seems to make the most sense, and on the basis of it we believe that this was a living, breathing group of dinosaurs destroyed in one catastrophic moment."

Again, even if they found 10,000 dinosaurs, it would still only be a TINY percentage of the population. And they found them at a single spot...a global flood wouldn't have that result.

The last quote you posted is the biggest blunder I've come across today. Of course different cultures describe floods, they happen all over the world. But those cultures didn't even live during the same time, and they therefore were talking about LOCAL floods.

I'm not surprised you believe all that nonsense if you get your information from pseudo-scientific websites like layevangelism.com.

Originally posted by Onboard2
www.earthage.org...

Catastrophic displacements of enormous plates of the earth’s crust provided the driving force for the global flood and produced the deep spaces for the oceans to drain into after the global flood.

The majority of our planet's sedimentary rock appears to have accumulated rapidly by means of a worldwide flood. Single layers were quickly formed that covered large parts of the globe.

Fault surfaces that contain zones characterized by microbreccias and pseudotachylite are evidences for rapid displacements.

www.icr.org...

Again, that pseudo-scientific website is blatantly lying...

The rate at which sediment is deposited differs depending on the location. A channel in a tidal flat can see the deposition of a few metres of sediment in one day, while on the deep ocean floor each year only a few millimetres of sediment accumulate.

LINK

Look, you can copy paste from that site all you want, but all it accomplishes is that it makes us laugh. They're so blatantly wrong when it comes to basic scientific claims, it's stunning. And I can't believe people are falling for that crap in the 21st century when there's so much proper information available.

Evidence for a global flood has been discussed on here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"We are greater than anything around us in an environment that is in decay and constant transition."

Define greater, please. I was following the argument, then fell across this wrench.


Does it just mean more important in any and all measurements of value?

Originally posted by Onboard2
Evidence for a global flood has been discussed on here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Actually, the content of that thread isn't backed up by science. The ice age didn't just suddenly end with some catastrophe

If you wanna know what really happened: