New Fortune Telling ordiance

link here

EASTPOINTE, Mich. (WXYZ) - There's a new fortune telling ordinance in Macomb County. The Eastpointe city council finalized the ordinance protecting citizens from unscrupulous psychics. Council members began studying the issue last year. A license costs $150 and can be purchased through the city clerk's office. They must be renewed annually.

All I have to say to this is what ever happened to the separation on church and state?

As used in this chapter, unless the context requires a different meaning: (a) “Fortunetelling” shall mean the telling of fortunes, forecasting of futures, or reading the past, by means of any occult, psychic power, faculty, force, clairvoyance, cartomancy, psychometry, phrenology, spirits, tea leaves, tarot cards, scrying, coins, sticks, dice, sand, coffee grounds, crystal gazing or other such reading, or through mediumship, seership, prophecy, augury, astrology, palmistry, necromancy, mindreading, telepathy or other craft, art, science, talisman, charm, potion, magnetism, magnetized article or substance, or by any such similar thing or act. It shall also include effecting spells, charms, or incantations, or placing, or removing curses or advising the taking or administering of what are commonly called love powders or potions in order for example, to get or recover property, stop bad luck, give good luck, put bad luck on a person or animal, stop or injure the business or health of a person or shorten a person’s life, obtain success in business, enterprise, speculation and games of chance, win the affection of a person, make one person marry or divorce another, induce a person to make or alter a will, tell where money or other property is hidden, make a person dispose of property in favor of another, or other such similar activity. Fortunetelling shall also include pretending to perform these actions.

Some of these fall under practices that Pagans do as apart of their festivals and celebrations. In my opinion this ordinance is violating their rights to practice their religion freely. It's sounds, to me, like this is a witch hunt. Not to mention that religious oppression was one of the reason our forefathers left England ....hence why "freedom of religion" is in our constitution.

Read The Pyschic Mafia and you will see why.

As far as the religion argument goes....

reply to post by boncho


You having fun here, Quaddafi?

Even after they killed your son? Oh my, what a downer!

This is just another way the government gets its tentacles into charging citezens for anything and everything. This is a violation of freedom of religion. Do they charge priests for exorcisms or preachers for home blessing? No of course not. But this is an alternative practice so they want to tax it and make it harder to practice because it is not mainstream religion. Sad there is no respect if it doesnt fall in line with the controlling powers believe.

reply to post by boncho


never heard of it but I'll give it a read to see where you are coming from.

Whether or not you believe in spells, charms, etc. it is still the individuals right to believe it is real. If some one wish to believe in Creationism ( monotheism or polytheism), Darwinism, or magic, it is up to them.

I wasn't saying magic, spells and potions are real or not, just how I see this ordinance is violation constitutional rights of those people who do.

So are they taxing prayer- or the fortune telling of revelations...

it qualifies...

they extend out to Christians and they took it..... with a smile...

or so as long as they accept donations and are a non-profit organization....

Does the church now have a monopoly on fortune telling?

an interesting barrier to entry for young business people..... does it apply to internet psychics?

reply to post by BAMstomper


Many New Age churches have all the rights of regular churches. If anything this will force all the freelancers into the fold. The thing is, if you want all the rights that comes with religion, you have to organize and declare yourself. The little shops in the townhouse basements with a neon hand in the window are not declaring themselves part of a religious organization.

Any of the other people you listed can all file for religious freedoms and be part of a church. They will have to declare themselves as such though.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by boncho

 

You having fun here, Quaddafi?

Even after they killed your son? Oh my, what a downer!

Not a big loss, he took after his Mother.

And he wouldn't have died if he had listened to his fortune teller.

I'm all for having ways to take the fakers out of this field, since I have worked in relevant areas most of my life and seen many fakers in many places.

But, I detest registration and fees which would lead to a register of practicing psychics on some computer somewhere in Government... I have my reasons for not liking that idea.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by BAMstomper

 

Many New Age churches have all the rights of regular churches. If anything this will force all the freelancers into the fold. The thing is, if you want all the rights that comes with religion, you have to organize and declare yourself. The little shops in the townhouse basements with a neon hand in the window are not declaring themselves part of a religious organization.

Any of the other people you listed can all file for religious freedoms and be part of a church. They will have to declare themselves as such though.

Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

hmmm...I don't see a thing that says you have to be a member of a church in order to practice your chosen religion.

and as of the "other people" I mentioned. I'll define.

monotheism: is the belief in the existence of one god

Polytheism is the belief of multiple deities also usually assembled into a pantheon of gods and goddesses, along with their own mythologies and rituals.

Darwinism: designates a distinctive form of evolutionary explanation for the history and diversity of life on earth.

I thought Psychic services were 'meant to be used for entertainment purposes only'.

reply to post by BAMstomper

hmmm...I don't see a thing that says you have to be a member of a church in order to practice your chosen religion.

You do if you want the government to recognize you, and give you all the benefits that normal 'non church' establishments have to suffer. Nothing in the OP stated that it was banning these people from practicing what they were doing, only having to file for permits.

monotheism: is the belief in the existence of one god

How does that relate to the OP? Do monotheists charge money?

Polytheism is the belief of multiple deities also usually assembled into a pantheon of gods and goddesses, along with their own mythologies and rituals.

Do polytheist priests charge money for their services?

Darwinism: designates a distinctive form of evolutionary explanation for the history and diversity of life on earth.

Science, not religion, nowhere did anyone say people can't believe in science.


No one is telling people they can't practive religious belief. I should have been clearer, when I said 'rights' of religious groups, I should have stated, 'privileges' of religious groups.

Originally posted by loveguy
I thought Psychic services were 'meant to be used for entertainment purposes only'.

Boomshakalaka

Second line.

Originally posted by loveguy
I thought Psychic services were 'meant to be used for entertainment purposes only'.

Yep.

This one really confuses me.
Do clowns have to register and get a license?

EDIT: i just realized that from this question, it could be construed that I think psychics and fortune tellers are similar to clowns. That is not the case.

"...seership, prophecy, augury..."

That middle word should have to apply equally to christian churches as well, especially evangelical ones. They're pretty big on prophecy.

So, if the local pastor doesn't have a fortune-telling license...go get 'im!

A poster earlier in the thread has it right,

free-lance.

If you want to get rid of fakers ..
why don't you levy a fee?
say..
for being in government.

That would protect the people from shysters.

I know a buddie's mum was accused of witchcraft for reading tea leaves
she was very good at it...
they told her to stop it's evil...
but when the church had a bizarre
they asked her to read tea leaves to raise money for the church...

Originally posted by loveguy
I thought Psychic services were 'meant to be used for entertainment purposes only'.

That's the semi-official line taken to avoid unhappy clientelle and protect oneself from legal action.

I think it is wrong. Maybe fakers should be required to use that line so everyone knows they are fakers and suitable for entertainment only.

Just wait until the FTC gets involved. That will be the end of fortune tellers all together.