Touchdown: B-2 stealth jets return after epic 11,500 mile journey to bomb Libyan aircraft shelters

Originally posted by Gixxer...couch commandos whom have no idea what the price of liberty and freedom is...

It seems to be a right-wing talking point that the most powerful nation on earth is somehow continuously beset by tinpot boogie men overseas who are intent on taking away our 'freedoms.' Yes, our freedoms are under seige, but it's our own government that is doing that.

Originally posted by Gixxer
...also for the record the innocent people were being killed before this started thats why were bombing them....idiots

So we're killing hordes of people to keep other people from being killed? Beam me up, Scotty, I'm living in Absurdistan.

So sick! I cant belive these were made in 1989. I would love to see what we have now!

I am a tad disappointed.

First off, I always thought that it makes little sense to destroy things people need to make them submit to your will. If our intention is to remove a leader... then why destroy the country? It's an old paradigm about causing them to lose support for the conflict... but no one really supports him outside of money and privilege.

I still suspect this is theater.

I distrust the three-headed hydra of the military industrial complex-supranational financial cartel-global energy cartel too much to trust the nonsensical crap their media pushes out. No one had a problem with Ghadaffi for decades.... NOW it's a tragic travesty that he is in power? Really? I didn't see anyone saying diddly about this guy until a month ago..... his people had shut down his country in defiance and were unarmed until his 'defectors' armed them! It just doesn't seem like an uprising anymore.... it seems like another opportunity to allocate military resources into the region.

Perhaps the cause is just... but 20 or 30 years from now we may be surprised at what they didn't tell us.... imagine if we could have killed him any time we wanted to..... then why the billions in costs, the thousands of lost lives, the pain and suffering of the people? What was that for?


And by the way .... ALL heroes are accidental. Anything else is just a show and false pride.

Originally posted by Jepic
reply to post by hp1229

 

Yep. No oil and in addition, we dont like the EU's Bad food, Small houses, roads, cars, hairy women and several other things Just kidding.

WOW!

I'm mind blown at your ignorance right now.

Bad food? Do you have any idea how much variety of food there is in europe, compared to what? McDonalds? KFC?

Small houses? What are you even talking about? Please go to the countryside in england or germany and you will see mansions bigger than most "houses" in the US.
Roads?

You will never see A CRACK in any highway or road here in Europe. I haven't seen a single highway in the US without the cracks .
Cars? Now that I do agree! Cars look cooler in the US, but they look more refined here.
Hairy women? Hairy women? Seriously? What the hell does that even mean. You realise all the white women from the US come from Europe right? If anything your native americans are the hairy ones.
And I'm not kidding...

Which part of just kidding you didnt understand ?

Yes i am aware of the culinary history of EU.
Do you live in a mansion? Mansions were built by civilized thieves who robbed the common man.
Really? No cracks wow that I have to see. So thats how the UK economy went down. They spent all the money making sure the roads are not cracked. Surely you do have several CRACK addicts i'm sure
Women might be european by heritage but American by birth and heart. Native american women might be hairy but certainly not pompous, wicked and cunning like european ones

I can go on and on and play along with your statements.

Jokes and BS apart, please learn to see the far side of this conflict's cause. I'm sure you wouldn't make the change to your government's policies nor will others on ATS. Only thing you can do is change yourself and hopefully pass the understanding to your children. ATS is nothing more than a place to share/vent your knowledge/frustration(s).

reply to post by Maxmars


I'm quickly becoming disappointed as well.

All of the US's leaders were silent on the whole issue and let the rebels get slowly backed into a corner and largely defeated. The French of all people were the most vocal and the first to react.

Then comes a UN resolution for a NFZ, but the NFZ immediately becomes an all out bombardment with mostly US assets, and it appears we have targeted Ghaddafi, his family, and his government assets. That doesn't sound anything like a NFZ? What are we doing?

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
Lol, just a few days ago almost everyone on ATS was loving this NFZ stuff

You got it. Goes to show that we certainly cannot change or tame our instincts for war no matter how civilized we think we are

I'm sure many of members deep down wished for a War. Many countries critize the war but they're all ready to reap the profits once the War has ended. Such is the case with People and Countries in General.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Maxmars

 

I'm quickly becoming disappointed as well.

All of the US's leaders were silent on the whole issue and let the rebels get slowly backed into a corner and largely defeated. The French of all people were the most vocal and the first to react.

Then comes a UN resolution for a NFZ, but the NFZ immediately becomes an all out bombardment with mostly US assets, and it appears we have targeted Ghaddafi, his family, and his government assets. That doesn't sound anything like a NFZ? What are we doing?

Well. Initially the message has to be sent with few attacks that the attack against the rebels will not be tolerated before the NFZ can be established. Ofcourse if you announce NFZ and sit idle, the killings of the Rebels will continue while announcing a cease fire. Atleast the Libyan forces now know about the warnings from UN.

Now lets wait and see what more(if anything) comes out at the negotiations table from Libya and UN. Ofcourse the French and UK will not be able to enforce or sustain the NFZ for more than few weeks due to logistics and the cost associated with such operations. Remember Libya was attacked in the 80's too during Reagan time. This time around it doesnt seem to be a Regime Change either. Perhaps they'll slap him around a bit with more policies and todo list for Libyan Leader.

reply to post by Whereweheaded

Any proof of men women, and children that are innocent have been murdered by our bombing runs? Since your so privy to information that the rest of us aren't, maybe you can enlighten us? Or, are you comments once again based of emotion, and not sound evidence. I think the latter of the 2 sounds about right.

I would not confuse morals with emotion my friend, though I admit that the morally bankrupt who see violence as a solution tend to draw a blank check when it comes to moral based discussions.

Yet the evidence has been in for years, in conflict after conclict in theatre of operations after theatre of operations that the civilian body count from our stand off and attack aerial weapons is high, in part because of faulty intelligence and a need to release a payload in target poor environments.

That's being kind to the Airforce and Navy pilots who fly these missions, while ground troops guilty of collecting trophies from civilian dead, rape, and murder aren't quite so innocent on this score, if you want to call innocence blindly following orders for a military force that is clearly being used by the corporations to secure resources as leverage for the shadow government over the governments of the world.

Yes it does tick quite a few moral people off, that war mongerers brainwashed by propaganda, God, King and Country glorify through some Achilles like hero worship complex war, death and destruction as some form of manly virtue, and nobility.

That's besides the point though.

We have been found guilty of invading multiple nations now under false and manufactured pretexts to justify the aggression and we have killed thousands of thousands of innocent people in the process and that's all well documented.

Want to pretend this is all based on some one having an emotional hissyfit? Go right ahead, but you know what's going on as well as I.

We are the new Nazis and while many imagine the reich will last forever it won't, and just like in Libya, just like in Nazi Germany it will be the civilians who end up paying the ultimate price for all the war mongering being carried out in our name.

History repeats itself again and again with very clear patterns and only the idiots and lunatics of the world pretend it doesn't.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Did you notice that if you scroll down to the POSTER with the info on Operation Odyssey Dawn they tell ALL about the Stealth B-2 bomber:

"Stealth technology makes them practically invisible to radar- it has electronic signature equal to a tennis ball."

So....why is it that "nothing on radar" is the pat answer to UFO's ??? hmmm???

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Whereweheaded

 

No doubt that it does wreak an emotional toll. I am not discounting their efforts or their emotional struggles. The wield an awesome power, and I'm sure it is difficult. BTW, I have been to flight school (civilian), and I do have friends that fly military craft.

I am just saying this action is not "heroic." It is a routine mission, they are never in danger, they never see the dying whimpers and gurgles of their targets, and they are not abandoning their families for months and years at a time. Compare their action to the action of the spec op guys down their painting targets for them, hasn't been home in a couple of years, and had to kill the guards with their bare hands to maintain stealth, and then hold steady while those 2000lb bombs dropped from the stratosphere to within a few hundred yards of their location, and then had to extract themselves back to safety in a war torn area, just to do it all over again next week!

Big difference between that guy, and the guy in the cockpit!

One of the problems many struggle with as they mimic and parrot the talking heads of the propaganda machine in some misplaced desire to sound intelligent or patriotic is that they have no idea what it’s really like to have a 500 pound bomb go off in the building next door to you.

The see the neat sanitized gun camera and satellite footage, the puff of smoke in the cross hairs and some bizarre sense of pride at the efficiency of the process, yet they miss the horrifying deafening thunder of the explosion, and watching their fixtures in their home’s sway and the earth shake as dust falls from their ceiling, they don’t smell the cordite in the air and the wafts of smoke mixed with the feces and the urine of the dead and burnt flesh, they don’t hear the nearby children scream in fear and terror, or the women wail in abject despair, or the angry shouts at the heavens from which the bombs fell as the facades of the buildings crash like so much rubble and debris to the sidewalks where children play and lovers stroll.

They certainly don’t wonder if the next one is going to be falling on them, no they sign on to the Internet and pound their chest in some Darwinian Neanderthal like display of masculine bravado, imagining that the people who’s neighborhoods and homes we destroyed are happily celebrating that their 3,000 year old bazaar will be replaced soon with a 7-Eleven full of prepackaged foods and cheap made in China junk, and that they will finally be able to watch a baseball game and appreciate the virtues of Apple Pie chalked full of preservatives and chemicals!

I would love to place these war mongering mental midgets in a neighborhood that’s being targeted for anti-aircraft weapons and tell them as one bomb after another shakes the ground and sucks the oxygen out of the air, not to worry, your little spot in the middle of hell isn’t on the target list, and we never miss.

I would like to buy some stock in Depenz first though.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Yeah I get all choked up and warm and fuzzy about our 'brave' 'heroes' who from thousands of feet in the air, using satelites to guide their bombs after travelling 10,000 miles from where they actually live, to bomb, destroy, murder and injure, men women and children who have never done a thing to hurt any of us.

Yep you can't get much more noble than that, blindly obeying orders, riding a mountain of sophisticated computer equipment, to unleash death and destruction on a target you can't even personally see, or know what is or who or what is in it.

But hey why worry because we all know that they knew right where those weapons of mass destruction where in Iraq and not one civilian has been killed in Afghanistan by our troops to date.

All thanks to our heroes, and their epic struggles to eliminate people until there is nothing left but ZERO.

Yeah military industrial complex!

Any proof of men women, and children that are innocent have been murdered by our bombing runs? Since your so privy to information that the rest of us aren't, maybe you can enlighten us? Or, are you comments once again based of emotion, and not sound evidence. I think the latter of the 2 sounds about right.

Try this breaking news on for size: www.dailymail.co.uk...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


OHHHHH YOU ARE GOOD! I LIKE YOU!

That is exactly right man.

What a childish thread .....cheering for some people who drops bomb on people who never hurt US.... shame and disgrace for you OP ....

Heroes? Not really but worthy of admiration for sure. You can't say a pilot who has the skill and ability to pilot one of the most expensive aircraft in the world is not a highly skilled intelligent person worthy of admiration regardless of if you agree with what they did or not.

This is a truly awesome display of power but it makes me wonder: With this 20 year old technology (probably older) being used wouldn't it stand to reason capabilities have increased and any war we are engaging in is simply a contrived show? We could theoretically be lighting up targets via satellite feeds from a minimal number of human operatives on the field and causing mass destruction with barely a boot on the ground.

We're not... why not? If you ask me its because American casualties help get American support and generate the required hatred. All these wars are serving a purpose beyond what we know.

www.telegraph.co.uk...
heroes?
the west is working with al cia duh

reply to post by anon72


The B-2 Bomber is worth every penny.
It's hard to believe they actually cost $2 Billion each.
Northrup probably used half of that money on something new that we haven't seen yet.
- Black Project -

Come on these guys are just following orders...now when you pose with dead civilians, that is a whole different issue.

I have only been a reader here before so this is my first post. I cannot understand why the Libyan people must endure being bombed by a foreign force they have enough problems without outside interference. Why was Mugabe not attacked for the killing in South Africa or the Israelis for bombing the Lebanon not to mention the Gaza Strip. Is it one law for might and none for right or is it more about the OIL. Get the troops out of Afganistan and stop the bombing and let the people sort it just like the free world had to do years ago.

WTF $2.1Bil for one stealth aircraft?

What is it made of? Diamonds?

Where is all this money coming from?

Originally posted by Jinglelord
Heroes? Not really but worthy of admiration for sure. You can't say a pilot who has the skill and ability to pilot one of the most expensive aircraft in the world is not a highly skilled intelligent person worthy of admiration regardless of if you agree with what they did or not.

Actually, there is nothing that prevents a highly skilled, intelligent person from being a total jerkwad. So while we might hold some degree of admiration for their level of technical proficiency, that does not mean these people are worthy of admiration.

Doesn't mean they aren't, either. There is no connection.

Reading through this thread I find it interesting to see the beginning rumbles of what happened in the late '60s and early '70s.

At the beginning of US involvement in Vietnam, US military personnel were considered en-masse "heroes", much as the military is today.

Then over time, as the complete moral bankruptcy of what the US was doing in Vietnam became more and more obvious, the military gradually came to be despised by many citizens in the US and around the world.

The reality is that the mere fact of being in the military (or police, or fire dept, or search and rescue, etc) does not make someone a hero. It is the actions of people, military or not, that make heroes, not where they happen to work.

So the military does not, for the most part, deserve the blanket title of Hero, nor do they, for the most part, deserve the blanket contempt that is starting to grow again.

The military is in a very tough position - it is not their job to set policy, but rather to carry it out. And the military has been horribly abused by various US administrations since Korea. But short of a mutiny, and lacking obviously illegal orders, it is very difficult for military personnel to resist this abuse.

What's going on today is just the latest chapter. It is the people behind the scenes pulling strings that deserve the condemnation, not the military. But they (the military) are visible. As intended.

Are these B2 crews very highly skilled and dedicated? No doubt. Are they really heroes? Much room for doubt.

But unless the US gets out of this habit of starting one war after another, based on lies (jury is still out on this point regarding the current mess, but Iraq was definitely based on lies, and Afghanistan quite possibly), I predict that history will repeat, and the US military will end up getting a bunch of blame they do not deserve.

Just as now they are getting a bunch of credit they do not deserve.