The 60 Cannons

For those of you that don't know what the cannons are...

What are the lost books of the Bible? They were texts and letters suppressed by early "Church Fathers". There was an important historical event, back in the 4th century. It is called the Council of Laodicea. It changed history two significant ways. At this council they determined what would and would not be considered canon. They decided what would and would not be included in the Bible or read at church.

Here are some of the texts left out at the Council of Laodicea... just to name a few...

Barnabas
I Clement
II Clement
Christ and Abgarus
The Apostles' Creed
I Hermas-Visions
II Hermas-Commands
III Hermas-Similitudes
Ephesians
I Infancy
II Infancy
Mary
Magnesians
Nicodemus
Paul and Seneca
Paul and Thecla
Philippians
Philadelphians
Polycarp
Romans
Trallians
Letters of Herod and Pilate
The First Book of Adam and Eve
The Second Book of Adam and Eve
The Secrets of Enoch
The Psalms of Solomon
The Odes of Solomon
The Fourth Book of Maccabees
The Story of Ahikar
The Testament of Reuben
Asher
Joseph
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Issachar
Zebulum
Dan
Naphtali
Gad
Benjamin

My question to all you religious people out there is this....

Have you read the Cannons of the bible? You say you know your religion and understand the meaning in the bible, but have you read the Cannons to find out why things were left out...

Have you seen the hypocrisy of the church...?

CANON XV.

No others shall sing in the Church, save only the canonical singers, who go up into the ambo and sing from a book.

CANON XVI.

THE Gospels are to be read on the Sabbath [i.e. Saturday], with the other Scriptures.

CANON XX.

IT is not right for a deacon to sit in the presence of a presbyter, unless he be bidden by the presbyter to sit down. Likewise the deacons shall have worship of the subdeacons and all the [inferior] clergy.

WHAT?!?! Worship who?

CANON XXIV.

No one of the priesthood, from presbyters to deacons, and so on in the ecclesiastical order to subdeacons, readers, singers, exorcists, door-keepers, or any of the class of the Ascetics, ought to enter a tavern.

These are only a few of them, remember theres 60....

Perhaps some of you should read this information, you may be supprized at what you find...

I knew this thread would fall off the map...

People love to ignore the truth when its presented to them it seems

reply to post by Akragon


Akragon,

Good post. S & F!

While I consider myself highly spiritual, I have genuinely grown to resent religion. Really ticks me off when the two are automatically grouped together. Therefore, my beliefs are within my heart and soul and not in the pages of a book. Though I admit to reading the Bible at times for the wisdom and peace certain passages provide me.

That being said, I thought I would add a real-life story that might add weight to your point.

I had a co-worker who was smart. Really smart; and really private! Over time I finally got him to open up about personal matters. This is when I found out he was in Catholic Seminary and had been assigned to some sort of major project involving the numerous "lost" books of the Bible. During this time he "connected the dots" and dropped out of seminary. Unfortunately, he would never say more than that. ("Vow of Silence"?)

Not much, but I always found that very interesting. Extremely bright fellow, dedicated to Catholicism, decides to become a priest, works on a project involving mostly unheard of Scriptures and suddenly drops out while refusing to say why.

I simply always thought that to be weird.

Peace.

Originally posted by Hessling
reply to post by Akragon

 

Akragon,

Good post. S & F!

While I consider myself highly spiritual, I have genuinely grown to resent religion. Really ticks me off when the two are automatically grouped together. Therefore, my beliefs are within my heart and soul and not in the pages of a book. Though I admit to reading the Bible at times for the wisdom and peace certain passages provide me.

That being said, I thought I would add a real-life story that might add weight to your point.

I had a co-worker who was smart. Really smart; and really private! Over time I finally got him to open up about personal matters. This is when I found out he was in Catholic Seminary and had been assigned to some sort of major project involving the numerous "lost" books of the Bible. During this time he "connected the dots" and dropped out of seminary. Unfortunately, he would never say more than that. ("Vow of Silence"?)

Not much, but I always found that very interesting. Extremely bright fellow, dedicated to Catholicism, decides to become a priest, works on a project involving mostly unheard of Scriptures and suddenly drops out while refusing to say why.

I simply always thought that to be weird.

Peace.

thank you my friend....

Have you read any of these texts? Or the cannons for that matter?

reply to post by Akragon


No, I have never read any, I've only read references to certain Books. Mostly while reading Holy Blood, Holy Grail which references the book of Mary (that is Mary Magdalene) quite often.

Two follow-ups...

1 - The idea that Kings, Princes and Clergymen decided centuries ago what was fit to read and what was not leaves me skeptical to say the least. Knowing they were men of power, what was there true goal?

2 - How my old co-worker treated this part of his life like he were a member of the CIA on an ultra-secret project made we wonder what did he come across that would clearly shake his religion to its foundation. I would give almost anything to find out the answer to that!

Cheers and here's to hoping a bit of traction on your post.

reply to post by Akragon


S & F for you!

I am a born and bread Christian who has been privy to only some of the contradictions in the Bible. I've learned of these contradictions upon READING IT FOR MYSELF.

Sadly enough, many Christians like myself, bought into the doctines without actually reading the texts. Thanks for this post; please, please, please give us some more updates or give me the link!

reply to post by SirClem


I will be happy to provide you with anything you would like....name it

Originally posted by Hessling
reply to post by Akragon

 

No, I have never read any, I've only read references to certain Books. Mostly while reading Holy Blood, Holy Grail which references the book of Mary (that is Mary Magdalene) quite often.

Two follow-ups...

1 - The idea that Kings, Princes and Clergymen decided centuries ago what was fit to read and what was not leaves me skeptical to say the least. Knowing they were men of power, what was there true goal?

2 - How my old co-worker treated this part of his life like he were a member of the CIA on an ultra-secret project made we wonder what did he come across that would clearly shake his religion to its foundation. I would give almost anything to find out the answer to that!

Cheers and here's to hoping a bit of traction on your post.

The answer is simple my friend, If you're DYING to find an answer to what he read....why don't you read the books he was studying....you'll find what you need i promise

reply to post by SirClem


SirClem,

Just googled the subject and the top hit was for this site...

www.thelostbooks.com...

Looks like the list is much longer than expected.

Originally posted by Hessling
reply to post by SirClem

 

SirClem,

Just googled the subject and the top hit was for this site...

www.thelostbooks.com...

Looks like the list is much longer than expected.

Much much much longer actually....

Try this link... reluctant-messenger.com...

reply to post by Akragon


just more contradictions that you're finding or the link to the cannons or both!

I'm sure you've heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh? Lots of similarities there with the story of the flood and Noah. Undeniable in fact that the stories came from the same event.

If I can find it, I'll post it later, but there was an awesome thread a while back saying that 'God commanded more murder than Satan' - or something to that effect. It went into great deal (quoting scriptures) where the poster laid out how many murders were ordered or condoned by God. The numbers were in the hundreds of millions if i'm not mistaken.

These simple truths like the few listed above won't stop 'true' believers though. 'You just gotta have faith' seems to be the cure-all to any dissent they receive (and was for me too as a believer). Those non-answers don't cut it for me personally anymore.

reply to post by Akragon


You're absolutely right.

Mind you, this guy spent countless hours researching these books. Then one day...BAM!!!!! He came across something that made him throw away years of dedication in the blink of an eye.

Since he was so very smart, as well as an expert in Theology, I simply cannot begin to spend the time required to stumble upon whatever it was he came across.

Cheers!

reply to post by SirClem


Yes i've read those stories...

Please just go to the reluctant messenger site....theres a link to "THE COMPLETE CANONS OF THE SYNOD OF LAODICEA IN PHRYGIA PACATIANA" on that site....but i'll give you the direct link here:

reluctant-messenger.com...

You'll find your contradictions, along with many new spiritual texts, and a lot of the ones left out as well

Enjoy

Originally posted by Hessling
reply to post by Akragon

 

You're absolutely right.

Mind you, this guy spent countless hours researching these books. Then one day...BAM!!!!! He came across something that made him throw away years of dedication in the blink of an eye.

Since he was so very smart, as well as an expert in Theology, I simply cannot begin to spend the time required to stumble upon whatever it was he came across.

Cheers!

Alright i'll give you a tip then....Read the Gospel of Thomas, and the gospel of phillip... Both appostles of christ

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by SirClem

 

Yes i've read those stories...

Please just go to the reluctant messenger site....theres a link to "THE COMPLETE CANONS OF THE SYNOD OF LAODICEA IN PHRYGIA PACATIANA" on that site....but i'll give you the direct link here:

reluctant-messenger.com...

You'll find your contradictions, along with many new spiritual texts, and a lot of the ones left out as well

Enjoy

Thanks! I've already got my night lined up now Great stuff, I hope others join the conversation.

reply to post by Akragon


Just pulled up the Gospel of Phillip online. Geez, can't these folks speak/write English?



Oh boy...gonna smoke a turd in Purgatory for that one.



So many contradictions. Guess that's why I always stick to one basic premise...The Golden Rule!

While I'm certain many would consider me a mediocre Christian, that's in their eyes. I keep my faith and always try to do right by others. I guess my goal in life is to cross to the other side, look St. Peter (or whomever) right in the eye and state, "Hey, I did my best toward my fellow human".

Thanks for the reply.

Originally posted by Hessling
reply to post by Akragon

 

Just pulled up the Gospel of Phillip online. Geez, can't these folks speak/write English?

Oh boy...gonna smoke a turd in Purgatory for that one.

So many contradictions. Guess that's why I always stick to one basic premise...The Golden Rule!

While I'm certain many would consider me a mediocre Christian, that's in their eyes. I keep my faith and always try to do right by others. I guess my goal in life is to cross to the other side, look St. Peter (or whomever) right in the eye and state, "Hey, I did my best toward my fellow human".

Thanks for the reply.

You have it right there, but you're complecating things which is unnecessary...let me help you understand

While I'm certain many would consider me a mediocre Christian, that's in their eyes

Thats just a label, if you chose to label yourself so be it, but let me ask you this... Why do you care what others think of you?

I guess my goal in life is to cross to the other side...

To focus on death is to stumble my friend. Death is unavoidable, and when you die you WILL return home regardless of your "sins" The only real question you must ask yourself is, have you learned your lessons, and will you have to come back? Remember, if you had learned your lessons last time around, you wouldn't be here

This is all you need...Your Golden rule from the one man that was truth incarnate...

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Truth...

After reading what is in these books, is it any wonder why they were not included in the Canon texts.
And for the record, not all christian religions agree on what is considered Canon.

Maybe you should understand the criteria used by those who studied and chose what Canon books were to be included in the bible.

There is a lot more to it but do a little more research before going on half cocked.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
SECOND EDITION
PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
III. THE HOLY SPIRIT, INTERPRETER OF SCRIPTURE

109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75

110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76

111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."77

The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.78

112 1. Be especially attentive "to the content and unity of the whole Scripture". Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God's plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79

The phrase "heart of Christ" can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.80

113 2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).

114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By "analogy of faith" we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.

Originally posted by palg1
After reading what is in these books, is it any wonder why they were not included in the Canon texts.
And for the record, not all christian religions agree on what is considered Canon.

Maybe you should understand the criteria used by those who studied and chose what Canon books were to be included in the bible.

There is a lot more to it but do a little more research before going on half cocked.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
SECOND EDITION
PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
III. THE HOLY SPIRIT, INTERPRETER OF SCRIPTURE

109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75

110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76

111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."77

The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.78

112 1. Be especially attentive "to the content and unity of the whole Scripture". Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God's plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79

The phrase "heart of Christ" can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.80

113 2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).

114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By "analogy of faith" we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.

I don't see your point...

Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records

I don't agree with the church and what it tries to teach its followers about the bible....

Maybe you should understand the criteria used by those who studied and chose what Canon books were to be included in the bible.

I do, perhaps you should read what was considered Cannon to most churches...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Hessling
reply to post by Akragon

 

Just pulled up the Gospel of Phillip online. Geez, can't these folks speak/write English?

Oh boy...gonna smoke a turd in Purgatory for that one.

So many contradictions. Guess that's why I always stick to one basic premise...The Golden Rule!

While I'm certain many would consider me a mediocre Christian, that's in their eyes. I keep my faith and always try to do right by others. I guess my goal in life is to cross to the other side, look St. Peter (or whomever) right in the eye and state, "Hey, I did my best toward my fellow human".

Thanks for the reply.

You have it right there, but you're complecating things which is unnecessary...let me help you understand

While I'm certain many would consider me a mediocre Christian, that's in their eyes

Thats just a label, if you chose to label yourself so be it, but let me ask you this... Why do you care what others think of you?

I guess my goal in life is to cross to the other side...

To focus on death is to stumble my friend.

Got to reply to this Akragon (hope I did the formatting correctly)...

I don't label myself, nor do I care what other people think. I cannot begin to count the times I have showed kindness to a person and they just took advantage of me and probably thought "what a schmuck!". I honestly do not care that they took advantage of the situation, nor that they may consider me to be "stupid". The reasons I did it are my own and what's more is I am not about to stop or change.

Secondly, I honestly do not focus on death. Makes me think of folks who want to see the entire Middle East go up in flames just to get Jesus to come out of the clouds at their bidding. (Yeah, like that's gonna happen!) No, I look forward to every day but during the day I like to spread a little kindness, especially when least expected.

Hope that clarifies my position a bit. I must genuinely apologize if my posts are not 100% clear. I've just spent four days watching the NCAA Tourney and destroying lots of brain cells in the process. Hey! You try composing an eloquent reply when you hear funereal music for millions of brain cells going on in your head.