The Libyan war: Unconstitutional and illegitimate

reply to post by bluemirage5


Yes and we have to be careful when the people's revolution does commence. The globalists will probably try to hijack the revolution with their leaders undercover and steer it the way they want or destroy our unity.


Edit:

It seems those mind-controlled slaves of the establishment over at Youtube pulled the video I linked to on this thread. Said it was removed due to spam, scam, etc? Um no? Cover-up much? So here I am linking it again, posted by someone else.

As mentioned in another thread, General Wesley Clark mentioned "the list" on these countries being in our crosshairs under the war umbrella created in the cowardly congress following 9-11

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by PittsburghMike77
The President has to power to act unilaterally without Congressional approval - it's called the War Powers Act. Before you talk about impeachment, read the rules of the game.

I think if we talked impeachment, we would have to had impeached every POTUS since WW2, yes, WPA gives authority, and that is one of many avenues.

Most people want to impeach him simply because he doesn't have the correct letter before his name...they will gladly use every ignorant argument in order to make them feel better overall. I think the better discussion to be head is, does the president have too much leeway on dropping bombs? What is our function in NATO...in the UN...what is the constitution allow us to do when our national security is not threatened, but plenty of the world is...Must we dissolve our membership in NATO and the UN, or take a swiss role? There are many questions to be answered here as our society grows up...what to hold onto, what to take role as, and what to abandon..

The world will come into order under one giant government over time...the longer we ignore the dicussion of roles, the more they will simply be defacto enforced on us (or others) as their role through tradition verses decree. I think a healthy set of rules needs to be established and we drop the hogwash about constitutional authority, impeachment, etc...the more we are distracted, the longer we hold off on determining our future and allow foreign agencys to determine it for us.

We all need to be on the same page even with our government......no one has any idea what the reasoning is behind this No fly zone. Is it really so hard for our government to give us the truth? We all pay our taxes ...well most of us, but its time that we are given strait answers whether or not we can handle the truth. We all have our own opinions about how our government" dumbs us down" and "what you don't know wont hurt you" but in all reality as long as we are safe on our own soil everything is okay. Im not saying that we are over there for oil and thats it,.... we probably have several different reason. I for one, if they are keeping something off our soil then good.... thats what they are paid to do, but most of our younger generation needs answers and not lied to. Gives us one good reason beside the bull crap we been trying to digest over the past couple of days. I would bet on it.... that if you gave any reason at all we as Americans would be all in! With all the lying and dodging the truth we have all started to second guess ourselves. We have all become aware that we are the World Police.....im okay with that for it does provide jobs, and second who else would help in any other territories? We all know Russia and China are staying out of it......well truly i can't remember when they taken part in anything since Regan but I maybe wrong....and china we do here from them at least two to three times a day because everything we have is made there, but that's all you will see from them. Give us the truth and im pretty sure we can handle it, we just need a motive and i think we would not have to set here and listen to the news and propaganda that is misconstrued so bad that we cannot come to gather as Peace Keepers and see what we are doing is either wrong or right. I pretty sure we all handle being wrong for it,.... besides I mess up everyday and I have to live with the mistakes but it still doesn't give up my freedom. We fight for it and we will continue to fight for it. We cannot become soft for when you are wounded.. you seem to become the hunted.

reply to post by TriForce


You're absolutely correct. It has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with protecting civilians. Every time we invade another country more civilians die in a year than would have died in 10 years if we had just left them alone. This is about gaining a presence in another part of the world, just like Iraq and Afghanistan. It's all part of forced coercion into "our" way of thinking. Notice how the U.N. acted so quickly to approve the "No Fly" zone? Remember how Bush had to fight tooth and nail to get them to act regarding Iraq? I am curios as to why they were all on board so quickly this time.

reply to post by General.Lee


First of all and I know Kadaffi said it too but what the hell do you think would happen if there were a massive
armed uprising in or near Washington?
They (the American Citizens) would be labeled terrorists and the Military would come down HARD on them. Dont you think that neutral civilians would be caught up in the battle and killed?
The difference is that if the Military killed them, it would be collateral damage, if the "rebels" killed them, it would be a war crime.

The deception and hypocrisy just amazes me. I dont know what else to say.

Originally posted by General.Lee
reply to post by TriForce

 

You're absolutely correct. It has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with protecting civilians. Every time we invade another country more civilians die in a year than would have died in 10 years if we had just left them alone. This is about gaining a presence in another part of the world, just like Iraq and Afghanistan. It's all part of forced coercion into "our" way of thinking. Notice how the U.N. acted so quickly to approve the "No Fly" zone? Remember how Bush had to fight tooth and nail to get them to act regarding Iraq? I am curios as to why they were all on board so quickly this time.

Actually, Libya offers very little, if no strategic value to hold. Hell, we don't even get oil from them (Briton does though).
I think the reason is simple actually, K is a twit terrorist (the actual sense of the word..granted, his last known real action was 30 years ago, but still..a duck 30 years later is still a duck). He, like many -many- other dictators around the world richly deserve a bomb up their wazoo. the western nations seen the rebellion as a means to an end in not only getting rid of this twit without direct assassination, but also gain potential new consumers and continue the cascade of other middle eastern areas to become democratic (not all democracys are great in the US's mind though).

Basically, if the people want to throw out a anti-western figure, the west will help them..this is a national interest as having more friends abroad means having more opportunity for commerce, trading, and other arrangments.

There is no conspiracy here..doesn't mean it doesn't smell though...we will only help out nations trying to reach democracy if we personally are at odd's with their current dictator...enemy of our enemy kinda thing.
Its also why we were very quiet about Egypt...that guy liked us...so we stood back and simply asked everyone to remain non-violent..(even though Egypt is a very highly strategic value spot).

Democracy for some...but learn to love the west first.

As a westerner, I must admit my bias towards liking this plan...even though I know its hypocracy. Its also why I realize we shouldn't have gone to Iraq...yet my demand against it wasn't very strong.

We may want to pretend freedom and fairness is our desires for everyone...but thats not true. We are a nation of patriots and nationalists...and even though we may see moral hypocracy to cheer one group while denouncing another when both are fighting for the same thing, we do it anyhow because we think we as individuals are right and they are wrong (they being whomever doesn't like us).

This is a good thing though, don't be disheartened...without this trait, no country would survive long...some nationalism and patriotism must be maintained, else you would be rolling over for any rule imposed by other nations and a prime target for invasion (since the people won't fight back). there has not been a successful nation on earth survive that didn't use nationalism and national interests by the population...and once that declines, invasion by brutal jacktards happens

So, I say, cry havok, and release the dogs of war!

(will complain about it when its over...but for now...Go West...rah rah rah...and yes, I seriously bitched before the bombs dropped in iraq...but once they start dropping, its time to hold your hammer high so to speak...then crusify the general whom commanded it after its all over so we can take the moral high ground)

Originally posted by TriForce
reply to post by General.Lee

 

First of all and I know Kaffi said it too but what the hell do you think would happen if there were a massive
armed uprising in or near Washington?
They (the American Citizens) would be labeled terrorists and the Military would come down HARD on them. Dont you think that neutral civilians would be caught up in the battle and killed?
The difference is that if the Military killed them, it would be collateral damage, if the "rebels" killed them, it would be a war crime.

The deception and hypocrisy just amazes me. I dont know what else to say.

The difference is a single man whom cannot be voted out of office controlling the vast military wing verses someone whom if you disagree with him can be voted out a few years later...

The difference is profound and the very definition of different government styles.

Wait...so why is it called murder if you kill a single politician you disagree with, or if its done on a massive scale, its called a ku, and if its done wide scale and supported by the majority of people its called a revolution? because...thats how its defined..

You can distort all things if you want...dictators do that all the time to really stupid citizens...its how they can maintain power decade after decade.

Our bullets in a democracy (democratic republic) come in the form of a piece of paper, our gun is a ballot box..the concept is the same...remove the person the people do not like as a whole...the losers are the defeated ones..this is how this philosophy works...same thing, but paper instead of bullets/torch and pitchfork.

And there have been many revolutionarys in this advanced philosophy outside of washington...they are called the tea party and the glenn beck rally. They are called opposition, and were shot at by the ones in power, not by military, but by media..the war is raging now, just turn on network news and flip back and forth...the battlefield is the mind, etc etc etc...

Its what happened in 1776. We as a nation decided to move the warfare of politics and revolution into the mind verses the battlefield and facilitate a regularly scheduled skirmish to save on bullets and lives...its more civil, but the intention is the same...eliminate the opposition and gain power.

reply to post by SaturnFX


This conflict will amount to little

Originally posted by sith9157
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

This conflict will amount to little

Moving a pawn on a chess board from one spot to another typically amounts to little on a snapshot view anyhow, yet when you look at all the pieces moving over time you will note a strategy going on.

Rarely a single instance will show you the big picture...if you truely want to see whats going on, you need to map out the last 50 or so years of conflicts, installations, unnatural deaths, etc...see how the chess pieces have been moving around, then try to figure out the end point.

Actually, if you want a broad view, go back the past 1500 years and see how things have truely been moving...bit more chaotic, but there is an anglo-mission thats been in play for quite a long time.

So they can go to war under the most obscene, greedy, or murderous of circumstances - but once the first bomb drops we're supposed to "booger up" and give our unwavering support? That sounds like the perfect recipe for perpetual global war if we could just get other countries to do the same with their dissenters.

Originally posted by sith9157
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

This conflict will amount to little

Yeah just a few little billions of more dollars added to our trillion dollar national debt, that our little childrens, little grand children's, children will still be paying for.

Yeah just a few little more civilian casualties to add the the millions we have already racked up in spreading peaceful democracy and religion.

Funny the people who's worlds and lifes being turned upside down as a result might not agree it's so little.

One thing that remains little are the minds of the people who see virtue in such violent enterprises.

Why without those little people they could never happen.

When will the american people wake-up and understand that this Libyan war is part of the complex plan that started with Iraq may years ago. In the pentagon there are strategic plans thought out which will fit with the political plans made by some organisation like the CFR. It is no coincedence or accident that the unrest in Libya started from within, it is all orchestrated by the CIA or some NWO international secret service.

Libya and Kadafi are easy targets to help the NWO middle east agenda forward.Before you know it the US and allied forces are granted to station war-planes and troops in Libya for the next step....Ofcourse are this my thoughts about what is going on over there and do I not have proof to back any of this up.

Originally posted by General.Lee
Notice how the U.N. acted so quickly to approve the "No Fly" zone? Remember how Bush had to fight tooth and nail to get them to act regarding Iraq? I am curios as to why they were all on board so quickly this time.

Could it have something to do with the fact that there was broad international consensus on what had to be done in regards to the situation in Libya, and there wasn’t in regards to Iraq?

When the UN doesn’t act, or doesn’t act with the quickness people demand, it gets criticized, and when it acts quickly, it gets criticized.

The only to answer to this is to let the critics run the UN, I guess. I’m sure they would do a perfect job.

, I'd like to see what kinda job anyone on this site would do in politics and world issues it takes a little more effort than typing an opinion on your computer, Gadaffhi has been killing his own people! what we are doing needs to be done, maybe not killing civillians but that does happen, it's not like we are trying to go in there and kill innocents, I'm sorry but as soon as the No fly zone was inforced and the people of libya knew the U.S and other forces was on their way they should of got the hell out of dodge...as a side note I think war is very very wrong and I don't agree with it but I also don't think its ok for someone to kill his own people let alone anyone else and get away with it, If american forces started killing our own people(which alot of people on this site claims to be their agenda in the end with fema camps) I'd hope you would want someone to intervene and come to our aid. The military mind does not think of innocents they go in to get the job done its sad but true

Oh yeah and when did this become a war and not a conflict?...the O.P just trying to get readers to flag his thread because this is a conflict not a war. But hey! nobody wants to read about a conflict BUT A WAR now thats worthy of reading.nice choice of words to draw in the readers

reply to post by NewEmpire816


How is it not a war? The U.S. and France are bombing Gadhafi forces from the air? You think innocents won't die in the crossfire?

THIS IS MASS MURDER.

In other news, here's Ron Paul's (he might be another puppet but at least he's getting people thinking about the issues) take on the issue:












Source:
www.prisonplanet.com...

Originally posted by NewEmpire816
Oh yeah and when did this become a war and not a conflict?...the O.P just trying to get readers to flag his thread because this is a conflict not a war. But hey! nobody wants to read about a conflict BUT A WAR now thats worthy of reading.nice choice of words to draw in the readers

Tomahawks fired are from video game ? Crushed U.S jet fighter is video game call of duty ?

Originally posted by NewEmpire816
, I'd like to see what kinda job anyone on this site would do in politics and world issues it takes a little more effort than typing an opinion on your computer, Gadaffhi has been killing his own people!

Lots of dictators kill their own people..alot of the world is a pretty nasty place actually.
Genocide, mass killings, political prisoners, etc...it happens all the time.
Actually, the majority of nations on earth are still pretty barbaric...we in developed nations are totally and completely spoiled, and rightfully so. If we made a rule to help out the people suffering under a totalitarian dictatorship whom is literally slaughtering his own civilians, we would be fighting the world. It truely is that bad in many areas...

So, heres the thing...we got a choice...pick and choose our battles based on what effects us, help none out to include faithful allies, or go fight everyone whom kills their citizens for political control

help nobody is off the table...can you imagine what flak would occur if say, england was to get bombed and we decided to do nothing but just watch and tell em good luck...there would be a revolution. We have many friends and family over in various nations, not to mention tons of investments on the success of a nation...thats off the table, we must act...but when

If we fight everyone whom needs a good arse kicking, then we do no good..we just go bankrupt quickly (real bankrupcy, not recession bankrupcy) and end up fighting nobody, becoming very weak and empowering even worse actions

so, it must be pick and choose...ignore 10 nations with incomprehensible evil tyrants at the helm and blood flowing in the streets, and pick one that has a good mix of potential pro-western desires, a big spotlight on them, resources, and (or) the potential to have a chain reaction throughout the region.

Libya does not have any resources we are interested in for ourselves, however, they do have a big spotlight on them and the reaction may be worthwhile...that is the only valid reason to go in...yes, the guy needs to die, but that in itself does not give us reason to go in...

Actually, this whole thing makes little sense to me...dammit, aim the bombs at north korea already! Korean culture rocks, lets take out the north and unite the penisula under south rule...then enjoy technology and entertainment doubled from the region.