I for once wish that Russia and China would stand up against the U.N and NATO bullies

I don't mean a full blown conflict but I wish they would bloody the bullies nose for once, they're the only countries that can do it, they need to let them know that sovereign countries are not alone and that the bullies can't just go into any country they want and rape the resources and civilians

I'm sick of it

I can see where you are coming from, but would it be easier to let the Libyans just keep going in a tug of war against each other while destroying their country at the same time? What the UN and NATO are doing is no different to what would happen if they did not intervene. Come on, the guy is a headcase, he needs to be outed for what he has done over the past few weeks.

He has lied about terrorists in his country when they are his own who have turned against him. He has no remorse for killing his own people, and if you want a good example of how Libya should of been, Go next door and check out how the Egyptians are going now.

What makes you think Russia and China aren't in agreement (silent or otherwise)? They had the chance to block the vote and didn't. I think it rather important to ask the question/s why not and what are they getting out of this? Be assured, they are getting something they want. While we're at it, what about France? Getting some, too.

Originally posted by muse7
I don't mean a full blown conflict but I wish they would bloody the bullies nose for once, they're the only countries that can do it, they need to let them know that sovereign countries are not alone and that the bullies can't just go into any country they want and rape the resources and civilians

I'm sick of it

Well I am actually sick of all the bleeding heart "do gooders" who don't appreciate what they've got and talk the talk about being "Non Violent" etc and then use terms such as "bloody the bullies nose" and then back track with statements like "I don't mean a full blown conflict". By talking like that violence is exactly what you are advocating! You cannot have it both ways! Fair Dinkum!

With your statement "can't just go into any country they want and rape the resources and civilians" you are referring Libya well I call your bluff! Produce some real evidence that says beyond all doubt that this nothing more than a humanitarian pursuit to free the peoples of Libya from a relentless terrorist tyrant! Some real evidence from a credible source not just some gut feeling, opinion, or an article from some conspiracy website or dodgy press website like Debka! Real factual evidence with names, dates, places and official government documents supporting your claims!

The governments and groups providing this assistance to the Libyan peoples are saying it is a humanitarian effort. Until proven otherwise (I am not saying it cannot be proven .... it just has not been proven) .... fact!

So come on where is your concrete proof? or this is this just all personal opinion?

Russia and China standing up to the UN? Russia and China are part of the UN. Even more, they're part of the UN Security Council.

China would simply have to adjust their interest rates a few points either way to get the reaction they want from the US. Either Russia or China standing up to anybody could lead to a global conflict the likes of which we haven't seen since WWII, so, no thank you.

Originally posted by muse7
I don't mean a full blown conflict but I wish they would bloody the bullies nose for once, they're the only countries that can do it, they need to let them know that sovereign countries are not alone and that the bullies can't just go into any country they want and rape the resources and civilians

I'm sick of it

Please be aware that while i cannot condone what is happening, China and Russia both obstained from the vote zus declaring thier opposition. Watched it on France 24 live and also read about it here.

This is all France due to the intrests that lie within that country...everyboy else just falls in line for fear of being marked a social pariah to include the US. I think its funny the Arab League got more than they bargined for and are now choosing to back off as seen here.

China and even the new sweeter smelling modern Russia has much to loose if things go south, yet they are both easily capable of taking a stand if only for what is percieved as the right reason. They are hesitant at best until the line is drawn in the sand.

It all boils down to Be careful what you wish for.....you just may get it.

Bloody a few noses? Are you kidding me?
You are a Warmonger!

Bloody a few noses would mean military attacks... how would that be good? You want war to break out? You want people to die?


Get real... this isnt grade school... this is REAL life... were bloodying a few noses means blowing up a city or killing hundreds... if not thousands...

With your statement "can't just go into any country they want and rape the resources and civilians" you are referring Libya well I call your bluff! Produce some real evidence that says beyond all doubt that this nothing more than a humanitarian pursuit to free the peoples of Libya from a relentless terrorist tyrant! Some real evidence from a credible source not just some gut feeling, opinion, or an article from some conspiracy website or dodgy press website like Debka! Real factual evidence with names, dates, places and official government documents supporting your claims

reply to post by phatpackage


Well listen they just lied when they said oh all were gonna do is the no fly zone. And were gonna take out the anti aircrat installations and what not. And now they just bombed Gaddafi;s compound. Now if you wanna take him out then say that. All I am saying it is different from what the goals are that were stated. Just like other ventures the AMerican war machine is in. The reasons don;t seem to matter. (the ends justify the means terminology)

reply to post by American-philosopher


That is still not beyond all proof that this is nothing more than what they say it is. Not everything is a conspiracy! Show me the money!

reply to post by EvolEric


No kidding. I assume it is a kid and he doesn't understand how the Russians and Chinese rule.

Bloody the nose.... I assume that means taking out a ship or two?

Fat chance and I am ashamed that our younger generation is so deluded and oblivious to the world around them.

I guess none of you has ever been in the city that was being bombed... So, I will tell you. Where do you think the civilains are? Left to better place? Waiting for UN to free them and meanwhile having pizza and drinks in their bunkers?
All these bombs are killing children!!! women and innocent men now. Those people who have nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. If all the people in Libya are killed but 1, you kow who would it be? Right! Their President. He is the one who is having coffee in his bunker.
I was in the war zone. Wish I could forget it. I remember I was talking to the people sitting in a very old shelter that was saving us from the shrapnels and pieces of other c..p that was flying around. Many many similar shelters were turned into deep holes after being bombed. We had no chance if a bomb landed on our house or very close. I kept asking the same questions over and over: How can it be happening in the 20th century? How come the rest of the world let them do it? Where is UN? WHy there is noone to stop it and save us?"
Now I know why. Because all the people who are not there and not counting minutes and seconds till the next attack, praying it's miss his/ her hiding place... all these people talk about "helping" local people to get rid of the dictatorship. DO you really think they are saving these people's lives? You call it "saving" lives when these bombs are KILLING these poor people. Those who support bombing should go to Libya and then I would love to hear your fresh opinion. It's easy to talk your talk when you are save and in your warm room with soft slippers on your feet.
I am sorry, but I am so angry right now. I don't mean to insult anyone, just it's very painful topic for me.

i was watching press tv yesterday afternoon. they were in contact with a civilian from the east of libya by phone who has pleaded for food, water and medicines. they are desperate for aid and this was clearly heard in his voice.
i wonder, have the western coalition forces currently interested in imposing a no-fly zone considered the need for humanitarian aid on the ground or is their mandate simply to drop bombs and target ground assets?
f

Originally posted by phatpackage

With your statement "can't just go into any country they want and rape the resources and civilians" you are referring Libya well I call your bluff! Produce some real evidence that says beyond all doubt that this nothing more than a humanitarian pursuit to free the peoples of Libya from a relentless terrorist tyrant! Some real evidence from a credible source not just some gut feeling, opinion, or an article from some conspiracy website or dodgy press website like Debka! Real factual evidence with names, dates, places and official government documents supporting your claims!

So come on where is your concrete proof? or this is this just all personal opinion?

i've been sharing the following links on all the Libya related threads 'cause a lot of people have been drinking the kool-aid on this one

Obama asks Saudis to airlift weapons into Benghazi www.abovetopsecret.com...


Exclusive: Benghazi Explosion – Tactical Nuke Use By Gaddafi Suspected www.abovetopsecret.com...

Tactical BS more like it, it was the BS meter that actually exploded , later shown to be the bombing of a local arms depot/cache

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler The headline ought to read Tactical Nuke Use By Gaddafi Suspected by Donald Duck. The article seems to be making a case for that any explosion anywhere that either hurts or offends the sensibilities of Americans is a tactical nuke! The article also suggests the Oklahoma Bombing was a tactical nuclear device! Seems like yet another sensationalized accusation of the kind that gave us WMD in Iraq. Just a lot of unsubstantiated gibberish designed to enflame and anger people and get people here thinking about paying for another war for oil. How many times are the American people going to get fooled by the same old song and dance, wrap it in a flag, and have God bless it, and presto whamo American bombs start snuffing out 'collateral damage' everywhere.

Benghazi's importance to Libya and possibly the World:
also explains why Qaddafi has come down really harsh on these "rebels"

While many countries in the Middle East and North Africa bicker over water rights, Libya has tapped into an aquifer of 'fossil water' to change its topography – turning sand into soil. The 26-year, $20 billion project is nearly finished. …The Great Man-Made River, which is leader Muammar Qaddafi's ambitious answer to the country’s water problems, irrigates Libya’s large desert farms. The 2,333-mile network of pipes ferry water from four major underground aquifers in southern Libya to the northern population centers. Wells punctuate the water’s path, allowing farmers to utilize the water network in their fields. ... “Water is more precious for us than oil. ... Water here in Libya, it’s life.”

after all why would Qaddafi want to damage or destroy a 26-year, $20+ billion project that he considers his life's work?

Virtually unknown in the West: Libya's water resources. The real reason for toppling Quadaffi? www.abovetopsecret.com...


Libya: British plans to strip Gaddafi of oil revenue www.abovetopsecret.com...

Libya False Flag -part 1: Reuters Hoax EXPOSED www.abovetopsecret.com...
truthfrequencynews.com...
World Cheers as the CIA Plunges Libya Into Chaos www.informationclearinghouse.info...

How was Libya doing under the rule of Gadaffi? How bad did the people have it? Were they oppressed as we now commonly accept as fact? Let us look at the facts for a moment.

Before the chaos erupted, Libya had a lower incarceration rate than the Czech republic. It ranked 61st. Libya had the lowest infant mortality rate of all of Africa. Libya had the highest life expectancy of all of Africa. Less than 5% of the population was undernourished. In response to the rising food prices around the world, the government of Libya abolished ALL taxes on food.People in Libya were rich. Libya had the highest gross domestic product (GDP) at purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita of all of Africa. The government took care to ensure that everyone in the country shared in the wealth. Libya had the highest Human Development Index of any country on the continent. The wealth was distributed equally. In Libya, a lower percentage of people lived below the poverty line than in the Netherlands.

How does Libya get so rich? The answer is oil. The country has a lot of oil, and does not allow foreign corporations to steal the resources while the population starves, unlike countries like Nigeria, a country that is basically run by Shell.

Like any country, Libya suffers from a government with corrupt bureaucrats that try to gain a bigger portion of the pie at the cost of everyone else. In response to this, Kadaffi called for the oil revenue to be distributed directly to the people, because in his opinion, the government was failing the people. However, unlike the article claims, Kadaffi is not the president of Libya. In fact he holds no official position in the government. This is the big mistake that people make. They claim that Kadaffi rules over Libya when in fact he doesn't, his position is more or less ceremonial. He should be compared to a founding father.

The true leader of Libya is an indirectly elected prime-minister. The current prime-minister is
Baghdadi Mahmudi. Calling Khadaffi the leader of Libya is comparable to calling Akihito the leader of Japan. Contrary to what your media is sketching, opinions in Libya vary. Some people support Gadaffi but want Mahmudi out. Others want both out. Many just want to live their life in peace. However, effort is taken to sketch the appearance of a popular revolt against the supposed leader of Libya, Gadaffi, when in fact he is just the architect of Libya's current political system, a mixture of pan-Arabism, socialism, and Islamic government.

Are the protesters in Libya comparable to the protesters in Egypt and Tunisia? Not at all. The governments reaction is more violent, and obviously excessive violence is being used. However let us look for a moment at the actions of the protesters. The building of the the general people's congress, the parliament of Libya, was put on fire by angry protestors. This is comparable to protesters putting the United States Capitol on fire. Do you think that for even a moment the US government would sit idly by as protesters put the US capitol on fire?


Great Britain funded an Al Qaeda cell in Libya, in an attempt to assassinate Gadaffi. The main opposition group in Libya now is the National Front for the Salvation of Libya. This opposition group is being funded by Saudi Arabia, the CIA, and French Intelligence. This group unified itself with other opposition groups, to become the National Conference for the Libyan Opposition. It was this organization that called for the "Day of Rage" that plunged Libya into chaos on February 17 of this year.

It did this in Benghazi, a conservative city that has always been opposed to Gadaffi's rule. It should be noted that the National Front for the Salvation of Libya is well armed. In 1996 the group tried to unleash a revolution in the eastern part of Libya before. It used the Libyan National Army, the armed division of the NFSL to begin this failed uprising.

Why is the United States so opposed to Gadaffi? He is the main threat to US hegemony in Africa, because he attempts to unite the continent against the United States. This concept is called the United States of Africa. In fact, Gadaffi holds all sorts of ideas that are contrary to US interests. The man blames the United States government for the creation of HIV. He claims that Israel is behind the assasination of Martin Luther King and president John. F. Kennedy. He says that the 9/11 hijackers were trained in the US. He also urged Libyans to donate blood to Americans after 9/11. Khadaffi is also the last of a generation of moderate socialist pan-Arab revolutionaries that is still in power, after Nasser and Hussein have been eliminated, and Syria has aligned itself with Iran.The United States and Israel however have no interest in a strong Arab world. In fact it seems that elementary to the plan is bringing Libya to its knees through chaos and anarchy. In late 2010, the United Kingdom was still propping up the Libyan government through lucrative arms sales. Nothing is a better guarantee to destroy Libya than a bloody civil war. The tribal system that is still strong in Libya is useful to exploit to generate such a war since Libya has historically been divided into various tribal groups.

This is also why the Libyan government responds by importing mercenaries. Tribal allegiances go before allegiance to the government, especially in Benghazi, and thus the central government has no control over the eastern part of the country anymore. The alternative to mercenaries is a conflict between the various ethnic groups. Gadaffi has tried for 41 years to make the country more homogeneous, but opposition groups funded by outside forced will take little more than a few days to put the country back into the 19th century, before the region was conquered and unified by Europeans. The violence is indeed excessive, but everyone seems to forget that the situation is not the same as in Tunis and Egypt. Tribal ties play a far greater role, and thus the conflict will unfortunately be bloodier.

Kissinger plan to transform North Africa and Middle East into Turkmenistan forum.prisonplanet.com...
depopulation_linked_merck_pharma_announces_africa_plan www.infowars.com...

www.schillerinstitute.org...
wlym.com...

enjoy

reply to post by muse7


There's no need. Russia, when it was the Soviet Union, learned this lesson first hand, and China may have learned it from watching them and us.

We are now doing what the SU did, which is to spend ourselves into extinction via military adventurism. All they have to do is sit back and wait and soon the US will be considerably diminished.

In the meantime, they (Russia, China) may not care that much about what we do in the ME or elsewhere... it isn't them being bombed. So they can play the wait game.