Israel admits to abducting Palestinian engineer in Ukraine

Originally posted by BiGGz
reply to post by nightbringr

 

If you don't have anything relevant to post pertaining to the topic, please go elsewhere and start a argument there. We're not talking about Syria, Lebanon or Jordan. We're talking about a Palestinian man who was kidnapped abroad.

Do you have a opinion on the relevant matter at hand?

Perhaps you should reprimand TKDRL as well then for talking about unrelated things like Israel acquiring land.

Or is it only ok when someone is on your side?

reply to post by nightbringr


In that same post, he provided information/opinion that was relevant to the subject. You haven't done that.

What do you think about Israel kidnapping a Gaza citizen from abroad?

reply to post by BiGGz


I think its illegal and reprehensible.

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by BiGGz

 

I think its illegal and reprehensible.

Maybe we should report it to the United Nations then, and see what happens

Sorry, I'm laughing at the mockery that the United Nations has become.

reply to post by nightbringr


Now you should have known if you dont agree with the,masses opinions and I state again, opinions....then you will get complaints. Fortunatly you brought facts and I think you stated them quite well.

reply to post by LoverBoy


Well let me ask you, since you have the same problem with going off topic.

What do you think about Israel abducting a Gazan civilian from abroad?

reply to post by BiGGz


This isnt suprising. Havent you guys seen the footage of israeli soldiers shooting palastinian journalists? This sort of treatment isnt as uncommon as we al think.

Gaza engineer suffering under Israel custody, human rights group says

Palestinian Center for Human Rights says one of its lawyers was permitted to visit Dirar Abu Sisi, who is in Israeli custody; he told group he was forcibly removed from train compartment in Ukraine and flown to Israel handcuffed and hooded.

www.haaretz.com...

reply to post by BiGGz


After reading the article, i dont see anything new.

He is suffering "psychologically". I think thats a pretty broad statement that could be applied to anyone incarcerated against their will.

If Ukraine and Israel have a criminal extradition treaty, I would question whether this was or wasnt an illegal arrest. It would appear in that article that Ukraine was complicit in the arrest. The Ukrainian Prime Minister dodged questions on the subject. Why did she not speak out against Israel? Perhaps there is a very good reason he was arrested. He is an engineer, perhaps he is a Hamas bomb or missle maker.

Now i know you will scold me for going "off subject", but i certainly think its fair in this case. Did Hamas ever allow Gilad Shalit to see a lawyer? I wonder how he is doing "psychologically" after 5 years in illegal Hamas detention.

Its not as one sided as the anti-Israeli lobby will show it to be. Both sides are equally guilty.

Originally posted by nightbringr
If Ukraine and Israel have a criminal extradition treaty, I would question whether this was or wasnt an illegal arrest.

Ukraine police search for missing Palestinian

KIEV, March 10 (Reuters) - Ukrainian police said on Thursday they were investigating the disappearance of a Palestinian engineer who, his family says, was abducted on a train in Ukraine and spirited away to Israel where he is in jail. Dirar Abu Sisi, 42, disappeared last month "under unknown circumstances" and police are trying to establish where he is now, a Ukrainian Interior Ministry statement said.

www.jmcc.org...
Seems Ukrainian authorities were unaware of the arrest..

Originally posted by nightbringr
Now i know you will scold me for going "off subject", but i certainly think its fair in this case. Did Hamas ever allow Gilad Shalit to see a lawyer? I wonder how he is doing "psychologically" after 5 years in illegal Hamas detention.

I don't know how you see it as illegal...Gilad Shalit is a soldier, and a prisoner of war. As long as he is fighting the Palestinian people, he is a legitimate target. You can't call it illegal when Palestinian soldiers capture an Israeli soldier, and not say the same when Israeli soldiers capture a Palestinian soldier. Regardless, Israel has abducted and detained HUNDREDS of Palestinians (civilian/politician/soldiers alike) without sentencing.

reply to post by BiGGz


Thank you for providing the last article on the Ukranian police looking for this man. Sheds more light on the situation.

So, by your reasoning, Hamas and Israel are at war. I hope you dont see the Gaza incursions then as illegal. If Shalit was fair game, then so are any invasions of Hamas territory (Gaza), and bombings of Hamas installations in Gaza and so on are all equally as legal then. Do you not agree?

By your reasoning, i dont see why Israel doesnt have to right to storm Gaza time and time again. After all, they ARE at war.

reply to post by BiGGz


Thanks for posting this.

Israel really is in need of a good checking. This man is not a terrorist, it is simply Israel's lame attempt to further hinder any development in Gaza. Their reasoning was that he has "suspected ties to Hamas" well no #, Hamas is the governing body in Gaza and to run a power plant would require at least a minor involvement with the government.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by bsbray11
If a Palestinian did this to an Israeli, the Israelis would be weeping over their candles in an endless vigil while fighters dropped bombs over Palestinian residential areas and Israeli commandos invaded peoples' houses.

That's because Israeli's value their lives.

Arab parents will convince their children to strap bombs to their chests and send them off to a border crossing.

Exactly, which is why Palestine doesn't exist anymore, because they sent all their children away to blow themselves up.


Wait a minute.....



If I lived over there I would've probably already blown myself up, too.

Originally posted by nightbringr
So, by your reasoning, Hamas and Israel are at war. I hope you dont see the Gaza incursions then as illegal.

I do when civilians are killed.

Originally posted by nightbringr
If Shalit was fair game, then so are any invasions of Hamas territory (Gaza), and bombings of Hamas installations in Gaza and so on are all equally as legal then. Do you not agree?

Most of the bombing on 'Hamas installations' are everyday buildings (schools, mosques, offices) which are used by everyday Palestinians, ie women/children. So when dead civilians are added to the equation, it becomes illegal.

Originally posted by nightbringr
By your reasoning, i dont see why Israel doesnt have to right to storm Gaza time and time again. After all, they ARE at war.

The 4th Geneva Convention defined humanitarian protection for civilians living in a war zone (like Gaza). Gaza is SO densely populated (the most densely populated country in the world), because of the mass refugees that settled there after being kicked out of their land by Israel, it is incredibly hard for Israel to make such an incursion into Gaza without civilian deaths. Therefore, Israel is unable to make a move without being in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

But hey, lets stop acting like Israel doesn't make incursions into Gaza.
With the onset of Operation Cast Lead, 1,000 civilian Palestinians were killed by the IDF.
The '04 Israel-Gaza conflict seen 54 Palestinian civilians dead.
The '06 Israel-Gaza conflict seen 117 Palestinian civilians dead.
The '07-'08 Israel-Gaza conflict seen 92 Palestinian civilians dead.
Operation Autumn Clouds - 15 dead, 200 wounded.
Operation Days of Penitence - 42 dead.
Operation Rainbow - 12 dead.
Operation Hot Winter - 52 dead.

Seems like every time Israel makes one of their 'incursions', civilians die.

reply to post by BiGGz


*sigh*

I hoped we werent going to get into a pissing match over this, but i see you will never accept that perhaps both sides hold some blame.

So i present to you a list of Israeli citizens who have been attacked before 1967:

en.wikipedia.org...

If you read this article (which you wont), it shows that the terror campaign SPECIFICALLY targetted civilians.

This next article deals with more recent carnage targetting Israeli citizens:

www.adl.org...


I do not see your point.

The anti-Israel lobby will never, ever admit that the Arabs have done anything wrong. Take off your blinders, this is not all one sided.

As for your point of Gaza being so dense, it is. Why is this? Another article for your viewing. This clearly shows how Palestinians are discriminated against in their Arab brothers homes. Most neighbouring countries refuse to absorb these poor refugees, yet claim to have their best interests at heart. Hogwash. Syria and Jordan are the only ones how appear to give the Palestinians equal rights, while on the other side of the coin, Lebanon treats them as animals, baring them from over 71 job catagories.

en.wikipedia.org...

One choice paragraph from this article:


Over 400,000 Palestinian refugees live in Lebanon, who are deprived of certain basic rights. Lebanon barred Palestinian refugees from 73 job categories including professions such as medicine, law and engineering. They are not allowed to own property, and even need a special permit to leave their refugee camps. Unlike other foreigners in Lebanon, they are denied access to the Lebanese health care system. The Lebanese government refused to grant them work permits or permission to own land. The number of restrictions has been mounting since 1990.[36] In June 2005, however, the government of Lebanon removed some work restrictions for a few Lebanese-born Palestinians, enabling them to apply for work permits and work in the private sector.[37] In a 2007 study, Amnesty International denounced the "appalling social and economic condition" of Palestinians in Lebanon.[38]

Lebanon gave citizenship to about 50,000 Christian Palestinian refugees during the 1950s and 1960s. In the mid-1990s, about 60,000 refugees who were Shiite Muslim majority were granted citizenship. This caused a protest from Maronite authorities, leading to citizenship being given to all the Palestinian Christian refugees who were not already citizens.[39] There are about 350,000 non-citizen Palestinian refugees in Lebanon.

The Lebanese Parliament is divided on granting Palestinian rights. While many Lebanese parties call for improving the civil rights of Palestinian refugees, others raise concerns of naturalizing the mainly Muslim population and the disruption this might cause to Lebanon’s fragile sectarian balance.[40]

According to writer and researcher Mudar Zahran, a Jordanian of Palestinian heritage, the media chose to deliberately ignore the conditions of the Palestinians living in Lebanese refugee camps, and that the "tendency to blame Israel for everything" has provided Arab leaders an excuse to deliberately ignore the human rights of the Palestinian in their countries.[41]


Deliberately ignore the rights. The Arabs should be ashamed for discriminating so blatantly against their own kin.

reply to post by nightbringr


I really don't mean to sound like a smart ass, eventhough I know that's how it's going to read.

But is there an anti Israel lobby? I've never heard of such a group. They must not have a lot of funding.

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by nightbringr

 

I really don't mean to sound like a smart ass, eventhough I know that's how it's going to read.

But is there an anti Israel lobby? I've never heard of such a group. They must not have a lot of funding.

Oh its out there! By that i mean on ATS. Any little chance people have to sling mud at Israel and they do it.

Im all for keeping countries honest, and Israel has its problems, but most people here refuse to see anything the Arabs do against Israel as bad, and justify actions against Israel.

Im actually in the minority by not blaming them for every little thing including Mr. Sam Smith stubbing his toe on a tuesday morning.

So, suicide bomber = good
Israeli defense = bad

Originally posted by nightbringr

*sigh*

I hoped we werent going to get into a pissing match over this, but i see you will never accept that perhaps both sides hold some blame.

you're jumping to conclusions. I never said Hamas was scott free. Plus, I didn't ask to have this debate. I asked you not to go off-topic, but you keep insisting.

For now on, lets not talk unless we have something relevant to post about the Gazan abducted by the Mossad. Otherwise you can private message me.

reply to post by searching4truth


JIDF?

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Oh its out there! By that i mean on ATS. Any little chance people have to sling mud at Israel and they do it.

Im all for keeping countries honest, and Israel has its problems, but most people here refuse to see anything the Arabs do against Israel as bad, and justify actions against Israel.

Im actually in the minority by not blaming them for every little thing including Mr. Sam Smith stubbing his toe on a tuesday morning.

So, suicide bomber = good
Israeli defense = bad

edit on 22-3-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

Ok, well, in previous threads when and if I personally have referred to the Jewish lobby I imply AIPAC or similar group, I literally mean a group with funding that has a serious presence in D.C. that actually participate in the work of lobbying and petitioning congress people on issues that have to do with Israel.

The pro or anti Israel members on ats I do not count as a lobby, to my knowledge none of them are paid to increase coverage or the desires of people who oppose Israeli policy.

I don't know that you in the minority, I have come across a great amount of people on ats that will support and all of their actions til their last dying breath.