Automakers feel worsening effects of Japan crisis

Originally posted by wayouttheredude
reply to post by Raist

 

This is the point of the article linked into the thread. It is the loss of jobs in the US that was being reported here. The fact is this globalist interdependency is flawed in the logical sense. A shock in one area in one industry on the other side of the planet can devastate us here. Much like the tsunami was far more devastating in Japan then on the US West coast the economic tsunami from the globalist interconnected outsourced system is effecting us here in the US. We need to return our manufacturing base home. We need to reward companies to open their manufacturing here. The US can not just keep printing money to buy foreign goods while exporting our jobs overseas. It is just foolish policy and the test of time is proving this fact.

Where exactly in this article does it state that this has caused job losses? This article does mention that GM had to temporarily shut down one of their plants, but the article also goes on to say "GM will pay the workers most of their normal take-home pay even though the plant isn't operating."

The article also goes on to say that currently Japanese auto dealers in the USA have a two month supply of cars and that 2/3 of all the Japanese vehicles sold in the USA are actually built here. Not to mention that Nissan and Toyota have already opened some of their plants in Japan.

O

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Chai_An
reply to post by wayouttheredude

 

If Toyota have a manufacturing plant in the US it should be using products manufactured here and it would be business as usual regardless to what is happening in Japan but that's not the case. So-call American auto makers have outsourced to the point they can't make a car without depending on some other country to provide the parts, ludicrous.

edit on 19-3-2011 by Chai_An because: after thought

Toyota does have plants here in the US. So does Honda and Subaru.
The reason that they have plants here, and say Ford is that they can operate in the US at a lower cost because unlike the American Manufactures, they do not have unions to pay for.
That is why it is cheaper for Ford, GMC, Chevy and so on move to Mexico.

Yes I know Toyota, Subaru, Honda have plants in the US, but those plants operations will be affected if the parts manufacturer in Japan is suffering in any degree. I understand what you're saying however my point was it makes good sense for a manufacturer irregardless to the industry to have part suppliers located within the country of their manufacturing plants so production is not slowed or stopped when economic, political, or environmental issues arise.

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by SmokeandShadow

 

Did you ever think growing food can produce jobs as well?

But of course if you do everything yourself you can create everything you want? So that computer you are using you made that right? You extruded the plastics and created each individual component and then put it all together? Same with your home you live in be it an apartment or house or whatever, you built that too right?


Sorry but unless you do it all yourself then yes it is about jobs. I work and produce things that are used all over the U.S. I then use the money I make to do things and get things I wish to have. I work on my cars myself because I enjoy doing so and I have the tools and God given sense to know how to do it. For those things I cannot do I pay others to do.

I have the sense to understand the need for others to do things. Yes, I care about jobs and people living life sorry. Not everyone is successful at growing food, not everyone is successful with working with their hands, and it is that success and lack thereof that creates jobs.


Raist

Again, you take the system we have as a given. People motivated by money will make an inferior product, period. People motivated to make a car that lasts upwards of a hundred years and get 100+ mpg will not be motivated by money and certainly will not be in bed with ANY big business. Food can be grown almost anywhere there is grass, so why do we opt to go to the grocery store or occasionally offer a homeless man a happy meal? It all makes me sick...

Originally posted by wayouttheredude
reply to post by SmokeandShadow

 

I am sure the mega-rich elite banksters and their ilk would love fur us to all just return to farming. They would then run the plantation then. That would be their green revolution coming true.

On the other hand we do need to start thinking about food security against the horrible errors of big ag farming tech. I for one am starting to build scalable aquaponic systems. It is a real growth industry.

I didn't say return to JUST farming, though, I do understand your concern. There is too much ingenuity to sit around plow you're backyard, but when you see people worried about jobs and car plants closing e.c.t, it irritates me to no end that, much like modern medicine, people don't stop to think about curing the actual disease instead of the symptom (and no, we are not the disease, we just need to get our act together). As for the bankers, what are they going to do if we turn away from them, drop money entirely and live as more than just good consumers.

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


You know that growing a year's worth of food for one person is a full time job in itself right?

As for cars lasting 100 years there are plenty of those around. All it takes is regular maintenance by the owner. You have to care for the car and that is a job in itself as well. Sure not as much as growing food but still a job. You have to take time out of days off to take care of a car.

The system we have is not a given it was built to allow for those who cannot grow a weed if they needed too. It also allows for those who live in cities and do not have the land for crops or live stock.

Cars can be converted over to run on propane, e85 (for those not produced to run off of it), or just about anything else that can be used as a fuel, so long as you have the means to do so.

You seem to have some strange hate for the system we live in yet have no problem still being a part of it. If you were that angered by this system you would not be posting here because you would not have a computer.

People who make inferior products will not see customers as word of mouth is most powerful. I have a beater Subaru that has over 140k miles on it. I am the 10th owner and it had some body damage when I got it. As long as I maintain it I will keep it. If it dies in some accident I will get another Subaru because this one runs like a dream despite the miles, age, and number of owners. My other car will also be kept for as long as I enjoy driving simply because it gives one of the most pleasant driving experiences I have ever known. The performance is unlike any I have ever had. Again if it were to die in an accident I would find another like it.

Cars last as long as they are maintained. The problem is that most people think cars are just some disposable commodity and do not give them the proper care. It takes regular fluid changes (more than just oil), it takes service like belt changes, and plug changes. The cars will last as long as they are cared for. In the winter months you need to clean the stuff off the bottoms and sides to prevent rusting. Again most fail to care for their cars. A car that is cared for will last well over 100 years. If that was not the case we would not have some of the first ever cars ever made still in running condition.

Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by SmokeandShadow

 

You know that growing a year's worth of food for one person is a full time job in itself right?

As for cars lasting 100 years there are plenty of those around. All it takes is regular maintenance by the owner. You have to care for the car and that is a job in itself as well. Sure not as much as growing food but still a job. You have to take time out of days off to take care of a car.

The system we have is not a given it was built to allow for those who cannot grow a weed if they needed too. It also allows for those who live in cities and do not have the land for crops or live stock.

Cars can be converted over to run on propane, e85 (for those not produced to run off of it), or just about anything else that can be used as a fuel, so long as you have the means to do so.

You seem to have some strange hate for the system we live in yet have no problem still being a part of it. If you were that angered by this system you would not be posting here because you would not have a computer.

People who make inferior products will not see customers as word of mouth is most powerful. I have a beater Subaru that has over 140k miles on it. I am the 10th owner and it had some body damage when I got it. As long as I maintain it I will keep it. If it dies in some accident I will get another Subaru because this one runs like a dream despite the miles, age, and number of owners. My other car will also be kept for as long as I enjoy driving simply because it gives one of the most pleasant driving experiences I have ever known. The performance is unlike any I have ever had. Again if it were to die in an accident I would find another like it.

Cars last as long as they are maintained. The problem is that most people think cars are just some disposable commodity and do not give them the proper care. It takes regular fluid changes (more than just oil), it takes service like belt changes, and plug changes. The cars will last as long as they are cared for. In the winter months you need to clean the stuff off the bottoms and sides to prevent rusting. Again most fail to care for their cars. A car that is cared for will last well over 100 years. If that was not the case we would not have some of the first ever cars ever made still in running condition.

Raist

Just because someone is concerned about the state of things does not mean they need to run to the hills and honestly, those that do will have no affect what so ever. So far, the only way I see myself even having a slight effect is playing the game enough to fund a conflict of interest with the state itself and assert my rights. I won't touch on that here...

I am not sure what car you drive, but there are an abundance of "throw away cars" (daewoo e.c.t) made every year that soon become rust collectors because of expensive parts that commonly wear out. You make a good point though in that "The problem is that most people think cars are just some disposable commodity". Really, you touch on perhaps the largest problem, that being our propensity to be wasteful and careless. The system is unjust, so I feel my hate is obviously justified. On a basic level though, people want to eat and live free...everything else is becomes a coliseum of deception and these diversions of jobs, money, leisure e.c.t are just that...diversions from our potential and ability to be free. I simply propose eschewing the system.

In reference to food and the difficulties of abundant supply, hemp is a weed...a weed...



edit: whoops, missed you're beater Subaru part.

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


My point about running for the hills and living that way, is that is the only way you will be able to feed yourself trying to have a life like that. You cannot grow enough feed meat and vegetable for a year's worth of food and have time to do anything else. The movies have completely romanticized the idea. It was not the relaxing, calming, and easy life it is made out to be.

If that is what you want you have to go life someplace with plenty of land and hope that nothing goes wrong. Because if it does you are in for a really bad year to come.


As for the cars thing again even the worst of them can be kept with regular maintenance. Some parts are more expensive and others can be had at salvage yards because of the ideas of them being disposable in the minds of most. I was raised not to waste things.

I have a Subaru (my beater car), A Mitsubishi Evolution (my fun car), and my wife's S10 (she liked it and I said okay). I can say without a doubt I will have less problems out of the two Japanese cars I have than the S10. The Subaru is a 2000, the Evo and S10 are 2003. I do not buy new, I cannot afford that. I can afford though to do regular maintenance in my garage. There are some things I do not have the tools or understanding to do so I will hire people for that (thus the need for jobs done by others).

Our society is one of the best in the idea of industrialism. We work and get paid we do what we can and pay others to do what we cannot. That is much better than trying to do it all by ones self. It is much easier to hire those with a skill you do not have and use your skill to earn the money to hire them.

Raist

Do you think that they will be sufficiently impressed by their losses to understand why it was a bad idea to
send so much of our manufacturing off shore?
We USED TO make everything we needed Right Here in the USA!!!!!

reply to post by OhZone


The U.S. has never been fully independent of other countries. There were times we had few imports but not that much. It is more helpful to have industry throughout the globe.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


Imports used to be considered unususal and exotic. They had their own Mystique.

What for instance did we "Need" to get from elsewhere?

reply to post by OhZone


Well that could include many of the things you assumed you "needed" in your home.

Do you have a TV, computer, car, or many other things?

What for instance did we make that we needed? If we needed it and it could be made it can also be found in other places possibly even better than we are doing it. An example of that is the Japanese cars I have.

We imported a lot of things throughout time people felt they "needed". Tea for instance was a major import and the cause of a nice little revolt. Even at the start of the U.S. we got things from our neighbors that were not made in the U.S. Native Americans and Mexicans provided things to those in the early U.S.

In order for our society to grown and advance we had to start getting other materials from other countries. For instance there are uses for diamonds that are needed and I am not talking about jewelry, name a diamond producing mine in the U.S. for me. Different metals are the same; some are far more abundant in other places and are used in medical equipment or other things such as the shuttles that go into space.

Some lumbers that last longer than native found comes from other countries as well. Very helpful if you "need" a house or structure to last. Ideas are much needed and many of the things you enjoy that are American made is due only to the fact that an idea that came from another country was brought into the U.S.

This whole idea that America has been, is or can be fully independent is a fallacy. It is a dream invented to keep people blindly patriotic and trustingly submissive to their government.

Raist

reply to post by OhZone


Let me provide another example for you.

My Mitsubishi is a car that I am modifying to make it a little faster. People on the other forum that I go to for my car questions ask many why they are not using Japanese parts from companies there. I use American made products for that car because they are cheaper, and just as reliable for the need I have from them. If I find a car that will do what I want cheaper than an American car I buy it, which is why I bought the Japanese car.

The place that gives the best service gets the customers, those that do not get government bailouts.

Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by SmokeandShadow

 

My point about running for the hills and living that way, is that is the only way you will be able to feed yourself trying to have a life like that. You cannot grow enough feed meat and vegetable for a year's worth of food and have time to do anything else. The movies have completely romanticized the idea. It was not the relaxing, calming, and easy life it is made out to be.

If that is what you want you have to go life someplace with plenty of land and hope that nothing goes wrong. Because if it does you are in for a really bad year to come.


As for the cars thing again even the worst of them can be kept with regular maintenance. Some parts are more expensive and others can be had at salvage yards because of the ideas of them being disposable in the minds of most. I was raised not to waste things.

I have a Subaru (my beater car), A Mitsubishi Evolution (my fun car), and my wife's S10 (she liked it and I said okay). I can say without a doubt I will have less problems out of the two Japanese cars I have than the S10. The Subaru is a 2000, the Evo and S10 are 2003. I do not buy new, I cannot afford that. I can afford though to do regular maintenance in my garage. There are some things I do not have the tools or understanding to do so I will hire people for that (thus the need for jobs done by others).

Our society is one of the best in the idea of industrialism. We work and get paid we do what we can and pay others to do what we cannot. That is much better than trying to do it all by ones self. It is much easier to hire those with a skill you do not have and use your skill to earn the money to hire them.

Raist

But you are justifying a slave wage, correct? Even if it is a "good" wage, it is still paid labor and thus, begs reliance on that labor regardless of the resources that are available. I am not proposing communism, but there can be abundance with no romanticism involved in a world of self governing people if enough people wanted it. I don't care if I can buy a nice TV or new car, I want to see our ingenuity sustain basic needs and then the rest is a human pursuit of exploration and life. I am not sure why you assume that my rage against the system means living in the agrarian age...that would be terrible in fact.

The same amazing industrialism you speak of has brought about nothing that a noble pursuit could not and everything it would not...

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


Who said anything about slave wages? I think there should be a fair wage.

The only reason things are uneven now as far as wage and cost go is greed. People could live just fine if costs would stop going up. At the same time unions have increased many wages costs far higher than they need to be only because of greed. I do not work for a union and make a good wage but costs are a pain because of the greed of others. How much do we really need to be paid? How much is too much? At the same time minimum wage is not enough to live off of for a family but it was never designed for that anyway.

Minimum wage is meant to get started or keep the basics of living until you can get something better. Mostly high school and college kids sort of work. An adult should have an ability to get something above the minimum wage offered. I would never ask someone to work minimum wage and expect them to do anything more than provide the very basic necessities for themselves. I do not expect someone working minimum wage to have cable or anything like that, how some get it is beyond me. At the same time cable is not a necessity either.

The system I am talking about is completely fair. People get paid for doing something and if they need something they cannot do they pay others to do. How is that slave labor?

If I need transmission work and cannot do it myself I pay a mechanic to do it for me. At the same time my company pays me to run a machine that only a few others can. I am not sure how many in this country can efficiently run the machine but certainly there are few and divide them up between several companies and that makes it less per company. That skill is not present in everyone as I have seen some come to work and try but fail miserably to run that machine. I have a skill that allows me to run it, just as I can do different things to my car. I get paid for using my skill I pay others to use their skill. That is the best system you have, instead of bartering items or labor we barter money. Basically the same thing only our labor is for another most of the time than the one we are getting a service from.

Not only do I get paid but I get insurance as well which I find useful when I need medical attention.

Raist

reply to post by OhZone


Glad to see someone in this thread understands exactly what I am talking about. Star for you my friend. When I think of the statements of the globalist when they say that America needs to be able to compete in the global market place I want to smack them in the mouth. When I here them say this tripe I remember this little video and it reminds me just what they mean about competition in a global market.



When you watch this video think for a moment that the globalist intend for us to compete with labor cost in every nation. This is not going to lift other nations up as much as it is going to trample our way of life in the US and bring down wages so that we are all serfs working for the globalist.

What we need is no free trade with any nation that does not have an equal minimum wage as the US. Otherwise we will export our labor overseas and we will continue to lose our industrial base. The time for the United States to export only our debt is over.

reply to post by ziggy1706


The Federal Reserve is everywhere in this so-call global economy, not just the US. So essentially what you said about taking from everyone even the poorest is already a reality.

Where do the amemrican car companies sell the most cars these days?
not in the us I'll wager
they don't make the cars in the US

Consider this:
If the bankers have their way
The US will be successful again only when it is the new China..
which won't happen untill the US has finished being the new Indians
note the death tolls in the originals and the cost in land and resources...

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by SmokeandShadow

 

The system I am talking about is completely fair. People get paid for doing something and if they need something they cannot do they pay others to do. How is that slave labor?

OK, but the system you talk about is not real. A capitalist industry, on paper, seems fair, but we can clearly see that profit becomes the new king and "fair" becomes a discarded ledger in the office wastebasket. Even if it were a perfectly honest system, It isn't "fair" because you are only able to eat and have a roof when you can provide something in return. It is not that people have an inherent "right to have" things, it is a problem because we have the means to feed, shelter, and provide education, but the current system along with the perpetual spell people are under prevents that reality.

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


Well, to be fair the system you speak of is not real either.

No matter the system eventually it breeds greed and there will only be a few that will rule as the rest are forced into labor. It is human nature and cannot be changed. Sure not everyone feels a need for more but plenty do, just as many feel that they can use force to make others do their bidding. Any system is a system that involves bullying just as we see in schools. Those who have a power will wield it over others to get more.


As for my wants and need I have full filled them beyond what I could have ever hoped for. I have a wife and child that I love (they get on my nerves, but I love them), I have a home, and I have a car I really love to drive. In my eyes I am rich even though my home is no more than 1000 square feet and my car was used.

Again though with any system it is only a matter of time before someone decides they deserve more than another. Humans cannot inherently treat others as equals, because in our hearts we are all evil. I do not want riches (mans idea of riches) because there is a chance it would change me into something I would not want to be. I want to be happy and left alone for the most part.

Raist

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


actually, a pure capitalistic system could possibly be very fair....
but we don't have that.
the gov't has taken it upon itself to throw our money in all different directions....
promote clean energy, pay the bills for the poor, hotels, promoting the farming of the more unhealthy foods, cash for clunkers, the list is too long to list, but I am sure you know what I mean....
all this money, going whereever, and it seems everywhere, well, it influences peoples purchase descisions, provides money to buy things that the people wouldn't have otherwise, increases demand in some areas, decreases it others, places some businesses a big disadvantages while given the advantage to another.
this is a capitalistic system and there isn't that much running without gov't influence....