A Clear & Present Danger to ATS

Dear ATS,

There has been much discussion around the recent revelations involving the US Governments' activities to manipulate social media. Please view this link -

US SPY OPERATION IN SOCIAL NETWORKS

What mechanisms and activities is the Above Network putting in place to counter this viral attack on the nature of content contribution to our community?

Is this being ignored? As there is a growing realisation amongst many of us long-term ATS'ers that threads and posts here are becoming increasingly irrational, increasingly polarised, and increasingly at odds with logic, fact and reason.

This is a CLEAR and PRESENT danger to the cohesion, accuracy and probity of the ATS world.

The Revenant.

I agree in this fast paced constant breaking news environment that the HB Gary controversy is being largely ignorned.

My own related thread www.abovetopsecret.com... has probably gotten more exposure than any of the others posted on this, but the truth is that this is pretty much the 800 pound guerilla in the room that not too many people want to have to consider or talk about.

I saw you just posted a fresh breaking news story on it out of the UK and the thread was quickly closed and traffic was directed to a thread started over a month ago and died over a month ago.

I would suggest writing an opening piece based on your own unique opinions, conclusions and concerns and sticking it in General Conspiracies or New World Order.

I am pretty sure that this site, along with others, is constantly monitored and sometimes steered by certain individuals that may be in the employ of those that weald power.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I saw you just posted a fresh breaking news story on it out of the UK and the thread was quickly closed and traffic was directed to a thread started over a month ago and died over a month ago.

I would suggest writing an opening piece based on your own unique opinions, conclusions and concerns and sticking it in General Conspiracies or New World Order.

I agree with you, the fact that this story has yet again (unintentionally of course) been buried, suggests a lack of 'focus' on the 800 pound primate you mention.

I think that this does require a conspiratorial discussion thread to be made - so I shall indeed work on one.

However, I would like the Above Network to address this with the seriousness it deserves - hence why I have provided them the opportunity to respond to this threat in this thread.

The Revenant.

Personally, I'm honestly not all that concerned. The notion that ATS has been "monitored" goes back for years and years. It's nothing new, and accusations of "dis-info agent" have always been easy to toss around while being nearly impossible to prove. The revelations from the Anon attack on HB Gary do show a new level of desire in offering propaganda; however, even if one "dis-info agent" can now post as ten, they've got a fairly recent and overwhelming wave of new/young members treating ATS like 4chan to attempt to push through.

Familiarize yourself with common logical fallacies, and it becomes relatively easy to wade through the trash regardless of the source.

That said, some of the most interesting posts/threads I've read have come from members that were gov. employees/contractors. Once you discover these members, their postings often contain wonderful keywords and phrases that, when researched, often lead to fascinating information.

reply to post by The Revenant


I can't respond for ATS but I can honestly say that the HB Gary controversy puts a well run site like ATS in a difficult position, as it strives to maintain a high level of decorum and civility and open mindedness as part of it's Deny Ignorance Motto.

Publicly stating that sockpuppet armies may already be roaming the Internet ultimately opens the door to anyone not winning a debate throwing the sockpuppet card and engaging in the kind of Ad Hominem attacks ATS tries hard to prevent.

It's kind of a darned if you do, and darned if you don't. If you do, it's like declaring open season on posters with unpopular pro-goverment ideas, even though most of them are likely not sockpuppets or paid posters. The site degrades into a name calling fest. If you don't than members begin to question whether the site is turning a blind eye to it or involved.

It's pretty much a no win situation for ATS.

Thats how I see it at least.

This sort of by the backdoor propeganda delivery method that the American Stazi have come up with (why beat around the bush?) is just the sort of awful tool that should never be forged, nor should it be weilded. There are none in power, either those of whom we know, or those of whom we know nothing, who have been given a right by thier people, to perform these functions in this manner.
By taking this contract on, and by requesting and putting into use this sort of software, the US government invalidates all it has ever said on the subject of freedom of speech, and the right to free will and self determination. By attempting to steer public debate, IN ANY NATION away from anti US sentiment , or for that matter attempting to insert any mindset into a target, the US government have proven, beyond a shred of doubt that there is not, nor has there ever been a real difference between Soviet Russia, and the modern day United States of America.
The only real differences are, that in Russia you can get a damn fine drop of Vodka, and they dont bother hiding thier government conditioning even nearly as carefuly. Other than that, I think they sing from the same hymn sheet on more matters than folks are willing to believe.

Originally posted by The Revenant
What mechanisms and activities is the Above Network putting in place to counter this viral attack on the nature of content contribution to our community?

If you had read the article through to the end you would have noticed this paragraph:

He said none of the interventions was in English, as it would be unlawful to "address US audiences" with such technology, and any English-language use of social media by Centcom was always clearly attributed. The languages in which the interventions are conducted include Arabic, Farsi, Urdu and Pashto.

Source from OP

Seeing as English is the attributed language of THIS site, unless what was quoted above was an absolute lie, we must focus our efforts on tracing outside sources for this manipulation rather than here.

Personally, I think this kind of manipulation has been around for ages and it's something we just have to take into consideration when considering what we read on the internet.

ALWAYS ask yourself "why am I reading this" and "why now". Reports, opinions and stories often follow and influence hidden agendas....personal ones and mass orchestrated ones.

"They" may often be smart, but we are not ALL dumb.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Another excellent, and balanced post from you there Traveller.

I completely see, and agree with what you are saying. However I do think that to NOT do something about it in a proactive manner is to concede defeat. I don't pretend to know what to do, but I do think something needs to be done.

The Revenant.

reply to post by nerbot


I understand, but I do think that the US Government is flagrantly telling lies, and I think that anyone suggesting otherwise is suspect. That's just my opinion.

As for the language issue you pointed out, I think it's irrelevant and misdirection.

The Rev

reply to post by The Revenant


Dear The Revenant (like the name!),
So ok.. I read the story and I am flabbergasted. www.thefreedictionary.com...

I simply don't know what to say or comment on this. For it to be true, is quite undeniable, for them to publically admit to it is suicidal. I wonder how they are going to bypass the law of the land of the countries they are going to target.

I noticed the "languages" they had chosen and that part did not surprise me, all of them are languages used in countries which America has labelled it's "enemy".

Truly in shock on this one.

S&F

Regards,
T

reply to post by torqpoc


I agree with you - it is shocking, and extremely scary. How anyone in the modern age can think that 'propaganda' and 'viewpoint manipulation' in the modern age being morally acceptable is beyond me!

Rev.

I don't thnk anyone pays special attention to this site. ATS is a money generating site for the owners nothing more. I don't think anyone in the government sees it as anything else.

Originally posted by Darkk
I don't thnk anyone pays special attention to this site. ATS is a money generating site for the owners nothing more. I don't think anyone in the government sees it as anything else.

Oh really and just how do you think the owners of ATS brings this wonderful site to us, do you think it's free to run to site, thousands upon thousands pay attention to this site, if you feel it is so useless why are you here, after all you seem to be paying attention to it.

I for one have gotten news here over the years that you don't see in the mainstream until much later, sometimes months later.

If the powers that be are watching ATS it could be they want to find truth also.

Originally posted by Aquarius1

Originally posted by Darkk
I don't thnk anyone pays special attention to this site. ATS is a money generating site for the owners nothing more. I don't think anyone in the government sees it as anything else.

Oh really and just how do you think the owners of ATS brings this wonderful site to us, do you think it's free to run to site, thousands upon thousands pay attention to this site, if you feel it is so useless why are you here, after all you seem to be paying attention to it.

Like any business it did need some initial start up money but this site is not a mone hole labor of love. I never said it was useless i said this is another online business that just happens to be about conspiracy. It is just their business model that want a handfull of good contributors and a LOT of lurkers. The writters of this site are free the admin/mods are free so i guess server and office space are probably the biggest expenses.

I for one have gotten news here over the years that you don't see in the mainstream until much later, sometimes months later.

What are you talking about? The news here does come from mainstream sources a lot of the time.

If the powers that be are watching ATS it could be they want to find truth also.

Then there is nothing to worry about if "they" want us to know the truth then why would "they" be watching us?

reply to post by The Revenant




How does a dude with only 284 posts know what the hell is going on around here anyway?

Im curious to see if we get any sort of top down answer myself.

One would think on a site dedicate to denying ignorance, this WOULD be seen as a clear and present danger to ATS and yet we hear............................................crickets.


Curious.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


I am more than sure you are absolutely correct. I became aware of the manipulations and intentional obfuscations and derailings within about the first 10 min. I ever spent on a particularly highly charged 'social forum' that dealt with the Waco massacre many many years ago. Lot's of 'folks' there really didn't care for those discussions even though they were simply civil info sharing (at least by legitimate contributers).

I think one just has to just get used to it. as most of us know the 'kept press' has been that way for decades and now that many have stopped listening to the lies and obfuscations spewing from it and turned to more open forums, the trolls, sock puppets, and DI agents have logically followed. As expected though.

It is too bad many young minds and souls in the military etc. would turn on their own people though, and become some of the most misused tools out there but again they unfortunately (as many of them well know) ARE paid to be tools of a sort for whatever the mission, so again not too unexpected. This is not to slam them for their choices to TRY and protect America ( a noble desire) just to state many are misused I feel and many unknowingly until one day maybe they wake up to it all. (as many have seemed to afterward).

The good thing though is that in open forums like this though EVERYONE has a chance to offer their opinion and the sockpuppets often get blown out of the water because often they have to use lies, that in the end get buried by things more 'true'. So even though they can hide and try and derail, now that many know they are here and elsewhere, many are on alert and well prepared to carry on even in the midst of all of the 'noise' they generate.

reply to post by The Revenant


Let's think this through a little... With an average of 10,000 new posts a day, from every perspective you can imagine, what possible impact would this have on ATS?

ZERO IMO.

Let's say the nefarious operators had some hot propaganda they wanted to disseminate, they fire up this new software and start typing... After they get their wonderfully crafted post put together they hit "send" and thousands of sock puppet accounts post this meme to hundreds of sites, ATS included.

What do you think would happen? I have a several ideas about what would happen and none of them do the "cabal" any good at all.

Most likely outcome would be nobody here noticed, or, if it was so blatantly "pro" whatever they are pushing, the membership here would destroy it with facts. The other alternative is, if we saw several membership accounts posting the exact same thing we'd definitely know something was up and deal with it. Even if the software was able to create different posts for different accounts, the overriding message would have to be in your face enough to make sure it "gets through" to people and that, would most assuredly have the same effect as if all the posts were identical.

We've been hit before by fairly large groups attempting to use ATS as a propaganda machine for their various causes, agendas and even products. The membership always catches on and the staff always removes the offending material and disables the offending accounts posting it.

The reality is that software, no matter how advanced or distinguished, can never really replace a genuine human presenting his/her genuine beliefs. Heck, even the genuine humans who have tried this in the past have been busted, I have zero worry that sheer numbers of the same message, created by software "playing a human online", are going to have any real affect on the membership of ATS at all.

The possible attempts at spewing idiocy to "make us all look bad" don't worry me either, as many have pointed out, there's enough "crazy ideas" out there every day to make that a reality now without the bad actors lifting a finger, why would they bother?

The BEST weapon against something like this is to continue to post well thought out, well researched, fact based posts that ask the tough questions or uncover the hidden truths.

No amount of balderdash can overcome the TRUTH. It doesn't matter how many times you type a falsehood, how many sites you post it upon, it remains a falsehood, thinking people will see the truth in the rebuttal and that, will be the end of the great sock puppet machinery's usefulness.

Springer...

reply to post by The Revenant


A more overriding concernt for me is the effect this will have on some of the msm's newer chat sessions and forum discussions, where the host of a prime time media show will pose a question concerning recent or current events and ask the people to chime in on thier sites.
YAHOO! and MSNBC have had comment and discussion sections on every one of thier news articles for years, and recently CNN and FOX have been jumping on the same bandwagon but worse. I love how they like to select certain viewpoints that reflect a particular view to show "on air" and rarely do you hear opposing viewpoints...