Chemtrail Debunkers....

*sigh* maybe someone else posted this but I stopped reading the whole thread.

Persistent contrails (chemtrails) ar NOT a new phenomena!!!!!

Persisting and Spreading Contrails

Secondly, I never hear any of the chemtrailers talk about shiptrails. Why is that?

Shiptrails (sorry, it's in dutch, it's for the pics)

Shiptrails 2

Same dynamics as contrails.

Considering the amount of chemicals allegedly used, shouldn't there be a shortage of these chemicals by now?

Last but not least: My father works at the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute for almost 40 years (first as a meteorologist and now as a weather model software engineer). Are you chemtrailers telling me my father is unable to identify something unnatural? That he is lying about it and is part of the NWO? I mean....

I have had this discussion on dutch boards, I'm very sorry but chemtrails are complete bunk!

To add:

Pictures of Aviation Smog, from 1995 until June 25th, 2010

(partially english, sorry for that)

Some people see a proplem with contrails but with much more nuance!

reply to post by warlok


Your opinion that chemtrails are bunk is bunk. You are bunk for posting a bunk post in this thread. Tell me that this info is bunk. Some past weather modification experiments

NAWC Research.pdf

NORTH AMERICAN WEATHER CONSULTANTS
RESEARCH ORIENTED WEATHER MODIFICATION PROGRAMS AND STUDIES
Partial Listing (through July 2008)

Project: Weather Modification Feasibility Study for the Upper Snake River Basin in Idaho
Sponsor: Idaho Water Resource Board
Task: Evaluate winter cloud seeding potential for portions of the Upper Snake River watershed in Idaho, and develop a preliminary seeding project design
Time Period: 2007-2008

Project: Weather Modification Feasibility Study for Salt River and Wyoming Ranges, Wyoming
Sponsor: Wyoming Water Development Commission
Task: Evaluate winter cloud seeding potential for the Salt River and Wyoming Ranges in western Wyoming, and develop a preliminary seeding project design
Time Period: 2005-2006

Project: Potential Use of Winter Cloud Seeding Programs to Augment the Flow of the Colorado River
Sponsor: Upper Colorado River Commission
Task: Provide a thorough discussion of various cloud seeding options and their potential to augment the flow of the Colorado River, based on the results of similar programs in the western U.S.
Time Period: 2006

Project: Observations of Rime Icing in the Wasatch Mountains of Utah: Implications for Winter Season Cloud Seeding
Sponsor: In-house study (journal article)
Task: Evaluate data from an icing sensor in the Wasatch Mountains above Salt Lake City, in order to analyze the existence and amount of supercooled water in various storm situations. The amount of supercooled water is directly related to the seed ability of a given storm situation. Issues related to the transport of seeding material from ground-based sites, to the necessary in-cloud locations, were also examined.
Time Period: 2004-2006

Project: Is Air Pollution Impacting Winter Orographic
Precipitation in Utah?
Sponsor: In-house study (journal article)
Task: Investigate possible impacts of air pollution on
winter precipitation in Utah, to complement similar
studies in Israel and California
Time Period: 2004-2005

Project: Santa Barbara Cloud Seeding Project in Coastal Southern California: Summary of Results and Their Implications
Sponsor: Santa Barbara County Water Agency (journal article)
Task: Summary of Cloud Seeding Programs conducted in Santa Barbara County over a 50-year period
Time Period: 2004-2005

Project: Analysis of Downwind Seeding Effects in Utah
Sponsor: In-house study (journal article)
Task: Investigate possible seeding effects downwind of a long-standing seeding program in central and southern Utah
Time Period: 2002-2003

Project: Climatological Analysis of the Feasibility of Conducting Ground-Based Seeding Operations in the Uinta Mountains of Utah
Sponsor: Uintah and Duchesne Counties, Utah
Task: Analyze precipitation, wind, and temperature data to determine if/when ground-based seeding operations are practical, and potential site locations
Time Period: 2002

Project: Climatology of Fog Events, Bingham Mine,Utah
Sponsor: Kennecott Utah Copper Corporation
Task: Examine winter fog events in the Bingham Canyon Mine and determine the feasibility of improving visibility during those events through seeding.
Time Period: 1997

Project: Climatological Analysis of the Feasibility of Using Ground Based Seeding Generators in West Texas
Sponsor: High Plains Underground Water Conservation District No. 1
Task: Analyze rawinsonde data during precipitation periods in west Texas to assess the feasibility of
transport of ground released seeding material into cloud regions < -5EC.
Time Period: 1996

Project: Summertime Cloud Seeding and SF6 Tracer Tests
Sponsor: Taiwan Central Weather Bureau
Task: Experimental testing of both airborne and ground based seeding in Central and Southern Taiwan plus SF6 tracer tests.
Time Period: 1994

Project: Utah/NOAA Cooperative Research
Sponsor: Utah Division of Water Resources
Task: Participation in field data collection and data analysis of various data collected since the 1983
field season. Primary emphasis is upon the determination of the availability of supercooled liquid water for operational cloud seeding potential and the transport and diffusion of seeding material utilizing sulfur hexafluoride tracer techniques. Funding provided by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
Time Period: 1983 – 1994

Project: North Dakota/NOAA Cooperative Research
Sponsor: North Dakota Weather Modification Advisory Board

Circumstantial Evidence is still evidence, ask many of the imprisoned. The preponderance of the evidence is that something IS being applied to our atmosphere through aerial spraying. Geo-engineering patents are issued that concern the application of substances into our atmosphere via aerial spraying.

Condensation trails will not persist unless they have been modified to do so. The white “cloud” in a condensation trail is the “Warmed Air” area and when this warmed air area is re-cooled by the ambient air the white cloud WILL dissipate. It is exactly the same as seeing your warm breath on a cold day. It is impossible for a normal Contrail to do anything but dissipate.

The other argument is that there are more planes in the sky and the increased air traffic results in the sky being clouded over with contrails. If this is true we have a much more serious problem on our hands than chemtrails. We must start curtailing air traffic so our atmosphere is not so compromised. When we have so much air traffic that it has the effect of blocking out the sun our bio-sphere is being affected. We must reduce air traffic to the point that it no longer can effect the atmosphere in such a catastrophic manner.

Originally posted by Helgas2011
Hi guys
Matthew already knows what im going to say but after reading all his evidence and watching the videos a few questions still stick in my mind. I started a post on this but still never got an answer. Ok forget if they exist or not and assume they do what is the conspiracy?

The conspiracy is that the whole projects existence is being denied and kept a secret. There are public safety and environmental issues and also unreported tax dollars being spent.

We now live longer and i know of no one with any condition linked to chemtrails. After 15 years or whatever of constant spraying why are we not all seriously ill and all the food and water supply contaminated?

Breathing aluminum oxide isn't like breathing cyanide gas. It's more like breathing in a pack of cigarettes.

Why would a pilot fly a plane that has the potential of killing millions of people including his family without question?

They get paid lots of money. They are told it's harmless and good for the planet. One cloud isn't going to kill anyone

If you believe its to hide something fine but why are these blankets only in certain areas ( always near airports it seems) do they think the people of burnley in lancashire dont need nibru/planetx hidden from them?

The theories behind Nibiru state that Planet X can only be seen from the southern hemisphere of te Planet.

15 years is a long time for no effects to be seen dont you agree?

The effects can be seen and they are being seen by many people.

So if they are real then all i can say is they dont work or dont really harm us so why bother about them surely japan is more worrying at the present time.

Japan is an important concern in the immediate short term sense hopefully it's not gonna be long term. Chemtrails is just as important in the long term sense

On a side note peoples attitudes need to change a little manners cost nothing!

I agree, I'd prefer not to argue over the basic facts that the debunkers admit then deny they admit then deny.

Helgas

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


I live near the Charlotte International Airport and i see various trails all the time. Can someone let me know which type is which so i can possibly take some pictures and post on here? Thanks.

reply to post by MonkeyWrench30


Mathius will be along shortly to provide the video and still photographic evidence. You see Mathius, djcarlosa, etc can tell just by looking at the sky. These guys will keep you correct so that you don't raise the shutter life in your camera unnecessarily. If you ask Mathius nicely he will even provide you with images of chemtrail planes to that you can identify them. He should be along in a few minutes!

TJ

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Did you read my second post? There IS a problem with persistent contrails and there are people who acknowledge this!

You can't compare cloud seeding with persistent contrails. Well ok, they're both white. I base my opinion on a trained professional and common sense, you, on the other hand, copy/paste something that has nothing to do with chem/contrails. What about the shiptrails?

My own father must be a government shill, hmmmm...

reply to post by MonkeyWrench30

....which type is which....

They're all contrails, mate.

BTW...living "near" any airport is irrelevant to contrails. The ones you see are being made by the airplanes that are PASSING BY that airport you live near.

This is easy enough to understand, right?

Here's a news flash: CLOUD SEEDING IS NOT NOW, NOR EVER HAS BEEN CONSIDERED "CHEMTRAILS", except by "chemtrail" believers. Even geo-engineering "experts" agree with this. Using cloud-seeding is a red herring.
Just like the idea that "real contrails dissipate quickly, "chemtrails" persist." Clouds persist, therefore so can contrails. What about that is hard to understand?
As for your video about "debunkers", no good debunker will tell you a "chemtrail" is a altocumulus undulatus. We know that what is often attributed to "chemtrails" (and HAARP, because the two often go hand in hand) , wavy lines in the sky, are altocumulus undulatus clouds.
We also know that contrails will form higher than these clouds; they form where there are cirrus clouds, not alto-clouds. So your video's opening premise is wrong. The rest of the video up to this point 0:30 is also wrong in every respect: use of ground water sampling as proof, relying on the existence of a patent as proof, stating the geo-engineering is "chemtrail", all wrong.
At the 0:30 mark, the video mentions the number of videos found using a search of "chemtrails". SO WHAT ? Just because there are a lot of people who believe in something does not mean that thing exists. There is no proof in numbers. And that being said, I wondered on day how many "chemtrail" videos were really about "chemtrails". I did not count things I know were reposts or things that were tagged "chemtrail" that were not. I used just the ones supposedly of "chemtrails".

If you don't want to watch me count, I came up with only 19% of the videos were actually about chemtrails. I mention in the video that I had done this before and the highest percentage of videos I ever found was 30%. Subsequent to this video, I updated for about a week, and got results ranging from 12-22%. That is still incredibly few offered as "proof". So truth is not in the numbers.

The rest is just stupid. Searching for a particular cloud type by day is not going to get a lot of hits. Very few people (apparently; at least very, very few "chemtrailers") use cloud type names in any given day. Had he done a more valid search, he would have gotten 12,700 hits. Had he searched for just "clouds" he would have gotten 106 million hits. The cloud type he names are not "new"......I've got them in a book about Clouds from 1905!
TO ALL THE DEBUNKERS; Really this video is great fun. It's like the video about the "alto kum-u-lus" on the cloud poster. An almost priceless piece of comedy. Here's the link:Debunkers video

EDIT TO ADD: Here's the book. The picture is on page 120. It's not new. To say so invalidates the entire video. It only makes the videographer look stupid and biased.
Altocumulus Undulatus

reply to post by Ivann1217


Hopefully you are making a joke.
What you advise is illegal and could be taken as an act of terrorism.
And would be investigated as such, if you aren't making a joke.

I came to the US from major South American city 10 years ago (I'm in my early thirties now) and never have I seen the sky criss-crossed with the dramatic display one witnesses here. Furthermore, I travel to my native land at least twice per year and have not seen these type of "trails" over there. The length of time these criss-crossing patterns stay up in the sky is staggering. Also, I have been in many states here in the US and have seen these patterns in many types of weather ranging from mild to inclement. Having been to Mexico City and other latin countries have left my US "trail" experience unmatched. On a side note, the debunkers jumped on this thread at record speed. Must make HBGary proud for its "personas" software.

reply to post by stars15k


Your point about U-tube videos is completely irrelevant. But I did personally watch your video and I saw you discredit quite a few valid videos. You don't even actually view the videos before you have already discredited them. If that is how you review evidence then no wonder you believe all the debunkers. That video was so funny to watch.

reply to post by gmac10001


I just watched this happen yesterday. An airplane flew by my bedroom window early that morning and within a few minuets you could see the chem-trail get bigger and bigger and just hung in the sky like a huge cloud for about 2 hours. This is the first time I have actually witnessed this and I knew it wasn't normal I even woke my girl friend up so she could see what a real chem trail looked like. Anyone who says these things aren't real I saw it with my own two eyes not going to convince me otherwise.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Thanks for the reply. Few questions

What effects have we or you personally have been seen or noted?

What illness or illnesses do you think chemtrails cause?

If the population is expanding, which it is are you expecting a massive cull? Or something else?

How do you explain no food or water contamination? And yes I'm aware that the is a whole other conspiracy involving water lol

Last one......does anyone here actually feel any effect or illnesses they would claim in a court of law was caused by chemtrails?

Thanks helgas

reply to post by Evil3unnie


Well said but I hope your ready for the pack attack you will get from some members here after all they will try and convince you that what you saw was normal even though we who have seen them know they are not.
Its 2 pm here and already the planes are coming over for the second time today the difference is so apparent when the planes I've been watching earlier left no such trail behind them so conditions in the air are really not an issue but that won't stop them discrediting what you are seeing and if that won't work they will start with the nastyness.
Don't let it get to you they have a job to do and every time they scare a member away they will prob get a big bonus.

reply to post by Helgas2011


After these planes go over within half an hour i get a strange metallic taste in my mouth followed by a cracking headache after 2 hours if out going to pick up my child from school I'm struggling for breath as if I can't get enough oxygen my wife feels the same and when talking at the school with other parents its surprising how many are complaing of headaches and shortness of breath this cant be a coincidence and must have one route cause if we were to do a survey I'm sure you will see that the no of people with these kind of complaints would be staggering.

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Evil3unnie

 

Well said but I hope your ready for the pack attack you will get from some members here after all they will try and convince you that what you saw was normal even though we who have seen them know they are not.
Its 2 pm here and already the planes are coming over for the second time today the difference is so apparent when the planes I've been watching earlier left no such trail behind them so conditions in the air are really not an issue but that won't stop them discrediting what you are seeing and if that won't work they will start with the nastyness.
Don't let it get to you they have a job to do and every time they scare a member away they will prob get a big bonus.

It's not an attack to offer a different explanation to the same scenario. Remember chemtrails is peoples opinion and opinions can be changed or set depending on the evidence shown for and against. This is what ats is about.
I'm wrong all the time but its only when people point out to me my flaws that I can admit I'm wrong. Those who only accept their own truths are the most closed minded of us all!.

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Helgas2011

 

After these planes go over within half an hour i get a strange metallic taste in my mouth followed by a cracking headache after 2 hours if out going to pick up my child from school I'm struggling for breath as if I can't get enough oxygen my wife feels the same and when talking at the school with other parents its surprising how many are complaing of headaches and shortness of breath this cant be a coincidence and must have one route cause if we were to do a survey I'm sure you will see that the no of people with these kind of complaints would be staggering.

Could I ask if you live in a built up area? Or near any factories?