Chemtrail Debunkers....

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Tecumte

 

REALLY?!? Is it really THAT hard to understand??

Well, just wait until you see literally dozens and dozens of those just like that at all angles and cross overs and x's and o's all made within hours by jets looking like their pilots had one too many at the airport lounge....

Again, with the IGNORANCE....and INSULTING to boot!

Well, such insults require a firm hand, and "tough love" in return:


You're in the UK, right? DO you drive? Does your country have roadways? DO those roadways have bends? DO they have intersections, where they cross? Do have even the faintest, slightest inkling of how silly this looks, when you write crap like that??


For the UMPTEENTH time....this video, just to focus on YOUR one little country. (Oh, and how equally stupid is a recent comment on that video, I have just spotted. Let's see if anyone else can catch it):

Firstly....do you understand what that is showing? One day -- 24 hours -- radar (GPS) traces of flights in the UK airspace. It is showing ALL altitudes, and of course, you realize it is sped up, timewise? (I hope this is bleedin' obvious!). Showing the same thing, in real-time would be less effective, yes? And, incredibly boring, yes??


OK....what is it showing? Care to discuss? Or, to refute? Because, if there is anything you don't understand, for whatever reason, get it out now.

.... and these trails blot out the entire sky in a white out.

BULL!!! That is nonsense. You ARE aware of something known as "weather", right? Do you have weather where you live? Does it ever cloud up...as when fronts are approaching? DO you see......you are making the biggest fallacious argument of all. "Because" it gets cloudy, you then "think"....

...."Oh, Blimey!! Airplanes flew over my head!! Well then, they must be responsible for the clouds! Certainly there is NO WAY that clouds would form otherwise...never before in history, before airplanes were invented, were there clouds, or rain, or fog...."


(Silly enough for you yet?)


Now, this bit....I say "Huh" and marvel at it....

All the while 'well behaved' pilots fly more 'regular' patterns right throough the soup ....

"soup"?

That is usually a layperson's term for "fog"....or, low visibility due to clouds and fog. SO, begs the question.....how do you see these airplanes in all of that "soup"??

Enquiring minds wish to know........

Ummmmm, I'm in mid- Missouri

And yes, what I see (overhead here in Mid-Missouri) looks (to me) like military exercises of some type where dozens of planes often descend upon cloudless blues skies flying x's and o's and beside each other and right at each often whiting out the sky in a matter of hours all the while occasional scattered east- west air traffic (that is usual most any time of the year) flies through this white out soup left by these other 'acrobats' leaving only the expected quickly dispating vapor trails. It may sound 'silly' to you but it's the best description I can give for what I honestly see. Take it whatever way you like.

Check out the photos and the videos below and tell me that's normal contrails

news.bbc.co.uk...

August 15, 2009. I spent time in a more rural region in Austria (Europe) but there were chemtrails OPs though. I couldn`t believe what I saw there. Hundreds of circular, most transparent objects flew near the chemtrails or came out of the chemtrails. I filmed a lot of chemrails on that day. Please consider that a few minutes later after I filmed this chemtrails I filmed another chemtrails from excactly the same position as I didn`t move away and though the chemtrails was in the same direction there was nothing to be seen (didn`t film towards the sun). Btw. I filmed lots of chemtrails that day in all kinds of directions (others even towards the sun) and there was nothing to be seen. I dunno what this objects are. Maybe they came out of the chemtrails. Are it ORBs? UFOs? Plasma boxes? Was it produced from this kind of chemtrails and does it have a special function? However, it resembles objects i have seen occasonally during/after chemtrails OPs and the objects were transparent, circular and fairly big (coz i spotted them at a lower level) and on the footage I only saw one or two white points!

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

The first was discussed here. It is an AWACS patrol.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The second is a normal contrail.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Sure - they are normal contrails - what's your particular problem with them?

There is no doubt that military spray operations and engine/fuel design modification programs are in place.


www.metoffice.gov.uk...

Dr Jim Haywood
Jim is engaged in measurement and modelling aerosols and their impacts on radiation, clouds, visibility and air-quality.

Current activities
Jim is a Research Fellow engaged in wide-ranging aspects of aerosol research, and leads a team of five research staff. Jim makes use of aerosol and radiation instrumentation on the UK FAAM aircraft to better understand the complex interaction of aerosols such as industrial pollution particles, smoke particles, and mineral dust particles with solar and terrestrial radiation. He also utilises data from satellite instruments to map the spatial distribution and radiative impacts of natural and diagnose the radiative forcing and hence climatic impact of increased concentrations of aerosols from human emissions. Jim also is involved in modelling aerosols at regional, continental, and global scales.

Dr Haywood Journal of Geophysical Research

Aviation and the global atmosphere: a special report of IPCC Working Groups ... By Joyce E. Penner

books.google.com... Wm_J_a-ENuKQT_w-o&hl=en&ei=OhCRTfPiDZOksQO53oChDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Dr%20Haywood%20Journal%20of%20Geo physical%20Research&f=false

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

Yes.
As your quote says, Jim studies the effects of aerosols. Aerosols such as "industrial pollution particles, smoke particles, and mineral dust particles".

I don't see anything about him spraying anything.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

 

Yes.
As your quote says, Jim studies the effects of aerosols. Aerosols such as "industrial pollution particles, smoke particles, and mineral dust particles".

I don't see anything about him spraying anything.

You obviously didn't read who was responsible for those circular clouds you are calling normal contrails.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
There is no doubt that military spray operations and engine/fuel design modification programs are in place.


www.metoffice.gov.uk...

Dr Jim Haywood
Jim is engaged in measurement and modelling aerosols and their impacts on radiation, clouds, visibility and air-quality.

Current activities
Jim is a Research Fellow engaged in wide-ranging aspects of aerosol research, and leads a team of five research staff. Jim makes use of aerosol and radiation instrumentation on the UK FAAM aircraft to better understand the complex interaction of aerosols such as industrial pollution particles, smoke particles, and mineral dust particles with solar and terrestrial radiation. He also utilises data from satellite instruments to map the spatial distribution and radiative impacts of natural and diagnose the radiative forcing and hence climatic impact of increased concentrations of aerosols from human emissions. Jim also is involved in modelling aerosols at regional, continental, and global scales.

Dr Haywood Journal of Geophysical Research

Aviation and the global atmosphere: a special report of IPCC Working Groups ... By Joyce E. Penner

books.google.com... Wm_J_a-ENuKQT_w-o&hl=en&ei=OhCRTfPiDZOksQO53oChDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Dr%20Haywood%20Journal%20of%20Geo physical%20Research&f=false

And again, we have this common theme from you, Mathias. This is constructive criticism, not insulting, but you consistently do not understand what you post, and you just automatically link something to chemtrails, make some kind of statement implying you have evidence, and then you post a link that has nothing to do with your claim.

All too many chemtrailers assume the word "aerosols" means some spray operation. Aerosols just means airborne particulates, it does not mean anything about modified aircraft releasing stuff, or modified engines, etc.

I told you before, you will have a lot more crediibility if you would make an effort to understand what you post, rather just blindly post things, hoping it supports your conspiracy.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

 

The first was discussed here. It is an AWACS patrol.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The second is a normal contrail.

"Hundreds of circular, most transparent objects flew near the chemtrails or came out of the chemtrails. I filmed..."

An AWACS patrol???? Oh c'mon now, are you sure we're watching the same footage???

Edit: Nevermind I see you were watching the first footage, I was watching the second.We'll how about the second one?

reply to post by Tecumte

Oh yes. The second one. UFOs definitely.
Or bugs and dandelion fluff blowing in the wind.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Balderdash!!!

There is no doubt that military spray operations and engine/fuel design modification programs are in place.

"no doubt", huh??? WHERE do you make this crap up, from?

You know, your credibility is in the toilet by now....you realize that, yes? You have been here, throwing EVERYthing and anything up to make wild, unsupported claims of every nature. It's resembling a "pig-in-mud" catching contest. You see your "prize" slipping away under the scrutiny of science and logic and reason, so you divert your attention to the next slippery subject......

The initial state of your "claims" has morphed, when you were shown them to be unfounded, to this latest nonsense.

You just MAKE CRAP UP, and imagine it, then post it. Why? Desperate?

Because, this can only be desperation....as there are no sources to cite, are there, of any so-called "engine/fuel design modification programs". Are there?

(And....just what, exactly, would this entail anyhow???)

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Mathias I agree it is very likely weather modification programs are in place IMO) and have been for quite some time. Can I PROVE this at this time, no, but also I can't understand the reluctance by a few here to even consider it.

We have all sorts of "Owning the Weather" type white papers written by the military.

We have "geoengineering" by way of particulate scattering being taught in our shcools to our children.

We have legislation being discussed in our congress such as weather modification technology transfer acts

We have folks in the White House talking about using geoengineering.

We have scientists working on 'studies' allegedly only in the labs but NEVER??? in the field

We have all sorts of patents based around weather modificaton and weather warfare uses.

We have decades of known open air and other testing and experimentation upon an often unknowing public (until many years later)

We have planes coming out in droves doing x'x and o's and flying right at each other and along side each other leaving huge white smokey trails all the while their counterparts fly in and through the soup they made leaving only quickly disapating vapor trails.

We have small private companies engaged in the business of weather engineering.

This list is not complete and I'm sure 'debunkers' can jump on each one of these things seperately and provide a 'plausible deniability' when each thing is only considered seperately,but I have to ask why would anyone not even CONSIDER that all of things things when viewed together might not just provide a clue it is entirely possible (and I think likely) that this science is being attempted in the field. How is this such an unreasonable thing to believe. I'm not saying its PROOF but geeez, the close minded 'debunker' type mentality to even consider that wide spread weather/warfare trials are going on boggles my mind.

It's one thing to say there is no ABSOLUTE PROOF (yet) of which I agree. It is quite another thing to be so closed minded that one can't even contemplate that it is a distinct possibility.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Tecumte

 

Oh yes. The second one. UFOs definitely.
Or bugs and dandelion fluff blowing in the wind.

So you really have no idea.

You could just say that you know, it really doesn't hurt much.

Originally posted by Tecumte
[
Edit: Nevermind I see you were watching the first footage, I was watching the second.We'll how about the second one?

"Virga" from contrails is common too - eg this paper talks about it on page for - search for "virga".

"Virga" are falls of moisture from clouds that do not reach the ground - see en.wikipedia.org...

there is also lot of turbulence behind an aircraft creating a swirling air mass that might encourageg such a formation.

reply to post by Tecumte

No.
I have a very good idea. Those types of "UFO" are frequently posted.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

 

Yes.
As your quote says, Jim studies the effects of aerosols. Aerosols such as "industrial pollution particles, smoke particles, and mineral dust particles".

I don't see anything about him spraying anything.

You obviously didn't read who was responsible for those circular clouds you are calling normal contrails.

I'm not sure who you mean was "responsible" (you should really tell us instead of making us guess), but perhaps it is NASA's Airborne Laboratory mentioned in your second link? Is that what you are hinting at?

If you are talking about that NASA DC-8 research plane -- it is just that, a research plane. It's NASA's "Airborne Laboratory", and there is no reason to believe that the trail being laid down wasn't being done so on purpose for the sake of contrail research -- which is one of the things that Airborne Laboratory does. Isn't it possible the circular trail was left so it could be tracked in order to better understand contrails? If you want to study a contrail, the best thing to do is lay one down yourself (that way you know the exact parameters and conditions that were present in the production of that trail.

I don't have data for potential May 1998 tests, but here is a link to April and May 1996 research on contrails being conducted by NASA's DC-8 Airborne Laboratory. In this particular test, the DC-8 intentionally laid contrails for the purpose of studying those contrails.

eosweb.larc.nasa.gov...

However these are vapor contrails (not chemtrails) -- which according to the info you posted lasted for at least 3 hours and spread out into clouds (thank you). So I don't understand what kind of evidence for chemical spraying this is supposed to be. This link is only about contrails, and persistent ones at that.

reply to post by Tecumte


LOL!!

I guess a sense of humor is lacking in those who seem to "believe" in "chem"-trails?

Clarity: 2nd video, posted up by Matty. OBVIOUSLY crap floating on the breeze, coming into the frame of the video camera....a camera, BTW, that is ZOOMED in telephoto mode, while filming the contrail.

Lack of humor, and lack of photographic lens perspective, lens focal lengths and near/far distortions as a result, too? (**)

(**) Please be aware, in quite a few threads begun in the "Aliens and UFOs" Forum, have been those exact same types of so-called "UFOs" claimed. Call us who are experienced with such nonsense "jaded".....or, just damned tired of the (two choices) ---

• The exhibited ignorance of the YouTube poster who calls them "UFOs" (or, "transparent orbs", or whatever);
  
  OR
  
  
• The same YouTube poster who is insulting the intelligence of his viewers (++)....by WILLFULLY making such ridiculous claims....all the while professing a fake 'innocence', and pretending to actually be "seeking answers"...

(++) Which assumes that the viewers HAVE "intelligence" to begin with. But, from reading comments, that doesn't seem to be a valid assumption, sadly.....in too many instances....

BAH! Humbug! Those types of "YouTubers"??

Not any better than the common potato, all of them. And, they deserve to be flogged! (Not sure, might have just mixed metaphors there...).....

And, "No soup for you (them)!!"

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Tecumte

 

No.
I have a very good idea. Those types of "UFO" are frequently posted.

That begs the question.

What exactly are we seeing that looks to be flying around the plume in this particular video?

reply to post by Tecumte

Bugs and dandelion fluff.
Nowhere near the contrail.

Originally posted by Tecumte

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Tecumte

 

Oh yes. The second one. UFOs definitely.
Or bugs and dandelion fluff blowing in the wind.

So you really have no idea.

You could just say that you know, it really doesn't hurt much.

edit on 28-3-2011 by Tecumte because: need two lines

My two cents...

They could easily be insects somewhere between the camera and the trail (most likely closer to the camera).

The one thing that tips me off to these being something near the camera is that the ones that "appear" larger are more blurred than the ones that "appear" smaller. This could be caused by insects -- some flying close to the camera (larger and blurrier), while some are a bit farther from the camera (smaller and less blurry).

But that's simply all speculation. Logical speculation, but speculation nonetheless. There's no reason that they can't be insects.