Chemtrail Debunkers....

reply to post by djcarlosa

Also it annoys me when a member says to me that the air traffic going criss cross the sky is normal as I'm so say under a very busy air route and when I posted earlier that today there where no planes criss crossing and no long lasting trails from the planes going over on the route I spoke about and asked where were the planes that criss cross the sky which they told me was normal air traffic and they just ignored it.

Why should it annoy you? (By the way, your buddy Mat claims that commercial aircraft are NOT involved in "chemtrails" here; do you claim they are?)

Early on in this thread I gave an observation over the course of a day.( see pg 2 or 3 or so, for date, times and coordinates) The following day, yesterday, was completely different. The weather had changed with a mild front moving in from the north.
Between 7:40 and 8:30 a.m. the sky was clear to the West. There was light cirrus to the ESE, and distant low cirrus and some stratus to the South. I could gauge the difference in altitude because the rising sun fully illuminated the higher clouds while the lower ones were still grey in the Earth's umbra, although they gradually brightened as the sun rose above the horizon.

During this time, the usual commercial traffic was heavy; I could see more than 12 contrails at any one time, some as they were created, others as they persisted. I noticed a pattern that the planes traveling in a NW to SE corridor tended to leave rapidly dissipating contrails, those traveling E to W left longer ones, and those traveling toward the SW left long, persistent contrails, often spanning the full 180 degrees from horizon to horizon.

The rising sun shining through the mix of clouds and contrails was incredibly beautiful. Although I normally carry a camera with me at all times, on this morning I had left it behind. What a waste, it was truly amazing and spectacular. .

Even so, none of the contrails appeared to merge with the other cloud layers. Toward the end of the period, cirrus has started to move in from the NW as well.

From 11:40 a.m. to about 12:50 p.m. the cloud cover had largely dissipated but a line of cirrus were obvious to the North and the wind had increased considerably. Traffic was moderate with a few persistent contrails that appeared to be above the thin cirrus, although it was clear from the cloud disruption where some planes had passed through the cirrus layer.

Again, many planes had short contrails. I noticed two or three that either left no contrail then abruptly started leaving a quickly dissipating contrail, or were leaving a short contrail that stopped altogether as they passed through different regions of the upper atmosphere.

By late afternoon, the clouds had become lower and consolidated from the North to about 60 degrees above the Southern horizon. It drizzled off and on as the sun began to set.
Given the cloud cover, I could not see any contrails, but could hear the sound of aircraft after they had passed overhead or nearly so.

This morning was mostly cloudy and I did not observe any contrails. Later, the afternoon and early evening were mostly overcast, with intermittent rain.

All in all, not a sign of "chemtrails," but the usual interaction of sun, clouds and contrails, depending upon high altitude conditions.

Tomorrow (Saturday) is forecast to be clear to partly cloudy and I'll be out preparing planting beds and my garden. I'll have my camera with me.
jw

reply to post by coyotepoet


Thank you for the reply. Two things are pretty convincing. One being the reality of the chemtrail program and two the vicious nature of these/this debunker(s) protecting an intere$t that goes beyond the simple act of proving a point on ats. HBGary must be proud.

How is this not apparent to the entire world that we are being sprayed upon? possibly the microchips? More likely to me chemicals to keep people in a daze, and its all for business for the bilderberg, whatever the hell else they are to keep their rule and favor to the entire world, a shift from a dirty cash system that causes crime and all kinds of crap, disease, war, famine, greed, selfishness, uncare for the earth which we are slowly destroying. Everything going from cash to credit, is for the rich dudes who have quadribajillions of dollars all stashed away just waiting to convert to the new currency, and humans have to go along with this.. I mean cmon we all share the same peaceful loving, undescribable energy, yet since our human form allows us to percieve the way we do especially with being born into a society with media, religion, people teaching you, not you teaching yourself essentially. We think we are different, thought in the human form is limited by our own imagination. We may look different, but we all belong to the same energy which is everything. But i mean seriously its happening and humans are causing it slowly, who knows whats bout to happen the big cali earthquake that everyone knows is about to happen? mass earth natural disasters, who knows maybe it is earth fighting back, but we sure aint helpin it, by making homes over someone elses home (the animals). Human beings are spraying something in the air which from my daily observations and research and experience under this crap is that it is some sort of metal micro tracking device.

The Possibility of a Metal is very likely because the sun has become VERY much brighter in the past few years than it ever has and thats bs to me that the sun is reaching its peak or whatever....

Its even hotter on some days like straight up cant breathe, dry hot.

Some days i look out the window and my first impression is "oh its only overcast" then I straight up realize that blue is poking out slowly by surely and not in a real cloud kind of way, like a slow fade away to clear sky to be filled with more of this. Like the covering is stretching thin and dispersing essentially.

Some pics attatched
img819.imageshack.us... (Pic of the little ball things that would deflect)
img852.imageshack.us... (A hazy chemical sky)
img593.imageshack.us... (A Spray line, one of many that day and many)
img42.imageshack.us... (The very high altitude plane flying away)

And do not tell me those are contrails I SAW THEM WITH MY OWN TWO EYES DISPERSING BIGGER AND BIGGER AND BIGGER AND NOT JUST DISAPEARING


The picture of all the blur was actually a pic taken on a 6:00 AM morning which was misty outside but again it was very odd and completely not of natures making, i turned on a light and who knows for sure it could have been mist, or microchips, when i put the light up to it, it was everywhere and it would deflect away from my hands like not stick to it just be there

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by tommyjo

 

Yes he certainly not happy with being banned thankyou for telling me what you did in the RAF and in so doing I have to say sorry if in any earlier posts I have come across as disrespectful.
I know we may never agree on the subject in hand but I will say that I respect you more now.
I will still look for prof and I will still be here debating this subject as my view point has not changed and I hope that if I can find prof you will show me the same respect.

No problem. Thank you for the reply. I do respect your opinion and your right to debate it, but you have to see it from my perspective. You are making some really wild claims based on as you admit a layman's eyes. Far too many people like yourself are stumbling on chemtrail You Tube videos and interpreting and being influenced by them. Take a look back a Mathius Andrew's earlier posts on ATS and see his knowledge level of aviation. It is appalling and he tries to present himself as some sort of 'chemtrail guru'. For example his claim that there should be no gap between jet engine and contrail forming. It is just an absolutely appalling interpretation. You need to ask questions on aviation forums as to what you are witnessing in your area of the UK. There will be Air Traffic Control people and all manner of people in the aviation world to bounce ideas off.

TJ

O.K. we have just been sprayed here in Scotland this morning and guess what - the flights doing this are NOT commercial airliners, I checked the flights above my head in real-time on RadarVirtuel com and there was no flights anywhere near me listed.
These flights fly North to South and are not on a recognised commercial route - the military ARE spraying us, no doubt about it.

Originally posted by cassp83
I saw SEVERAL of these today, in action in Pittsburgh.

Airplanes flying what looked to be straight up into the air, and then straight back down leaving these trails. They often left 'X' marks.

Or, they'd go horizontally & then disappear into the clouds, only reappearing as they go straight back up. I took several pictures. Seriously. What is going on?

You are being fooled by perspective. Not everything that appears to be going up or down is actually doing so.



The following ATS member was initially fooled by perspective while filming this aircraft contrail in Florida. The aircraft isn't rocketing into the sky!



TJ

reply to post by crompton


Where are you? Without knowing that your post is pretty meaningless. And don't just say Scotland

Contrails may be from aircraft that flew over several minutes ago, or even ones that were produced hundreds of miles away and have drifted over your area in the 100mph+ winds which typically exist at such altitudes.

These are contrails from commercial airliners flying over Lochaber (though not today, obviously), I don't have any photos from other parts I'm afraid.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/029e9e8c33e6.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/10f5b9f9e921.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/55d5a07e3e1f.jpg[/atsimg]


Down here today the air aloft is too dry - so nice clear skies and only the odd, transient, short-lived contrails. When they aren't leaving contrails you really forget just how many aircraft are up there!

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Denver yesterday, nothing. Today it is hot at 8am. Many planes. Three just made a triangle. Planes to the east. Ciris (SP?) clouds to the west. I have no camera.

I live in SE Florida US & have been observing the chemtrails in our area for past two years. the spraying was very heavy in the begining of this year with constant crossing trails in the sky. On Jan 2 my birthday I looked up on a beautiful morning to see about 13 fresh trails crossing in a blue sky. within the hour it turned sky into a layer of cloud. over the next few days & weeks the trails continued. One morning the maker of "What In The World Are They Spraying " was on local radio explaining the phenomenon with a couple other callers sharing thier knowledge. A few days later someone posted many pictures of the local trails with titles Chemtrails in the local online edition of the news paper. Following that a journalist wrote a semi unbias article on it. It seemed as the heat was really on the subject & very exciting. This was mid Feb. Since then I havent seen trails except for contrails that disepate quickly after leaving the planes and the skies have been without the trails. I just checked the sky as I write this and it is clear blue again, with jets flying overhead with NO trails. Wow it feels like the good old days! Anyways just wanted to put this story out the there. Headed out to the beach to enjoy the blue skies and vibrations from the solar events taking place. Peace

reply to post by jdub297


Thank you for your post it is good to see that other's are out watching the sky even if what they are seeing disagrees with what I am saying is happening as most here who don't believe never post as to what they are seeing in the sky.
Yesterday was a good day here there where no persistent trails that stayed in the sky for hours on end and no planes criss crossing the sky's just normal commercial jet's flying over my house outbound to Dublin who's contrails dissipated within 2 mins.
Today is a beautiful hot day but I have spotted 12 panes flying across the sky in front of my house and there contrail's have already lasted well over 2 hour's spreading out so that they are 8x there original width.
The difference is so apparent that it made we wonder why today and the 4 day's before and not yesterday and the only reason I can think of was that yesterday was red nose day perhaps they thought with so many people out raising money for charity it would be prudent not to spray as they may be more noticed after all how many people take notice of the sky's most are to busy at work driving and when you get home most are happy to eat there tea in front of the telly.

Let me ask one simple question to the chemtrail believers. Why on earth would (whoever) spray chemicals in the sky that are visible to the naked eye?

(Hey, that rhymes)

reply to post by Illustronic


Thats a good question but spraying chemicals like in crop dusting etc will show up to the naked eye there is nothing they can do about that but the one thing they have counted on is that most of the population never study the sky some hardly ever look up to busy with the day to day stuff so that leaves the few who do and in order to keep them quiet you have experts on websites like this one telling you that these are normal contrail's left by air planes after all most of us never took film of the sky in the past so it's hard for us to prove the difference we are seeing.

Originally posted by djcarlosa
The difference is so apparent that it made we wonder why today and the 4 day's before and not yesterday and the only reason I can think of was that yesterday was red nose day perhaps they thought with so many people out raising money for charity it would be prudent not to spray as they may be more noticed after all how many people take notice of the sky's most are to busy at work driving and when you get home most are happy to eat there tea in front of the telly.

Most credible chemtrail theory I've seen so far

Far better than it being down to atmospheric conditions (drier air aloft yesterday and this morning, but becoming more humid this afternoon ahead of the frontal system moving in from the west and currently over Ireland) - which is so dull and boring it must be made up!

btw if you look west you'll see the skies are hazier, whereas out east they're still pretty clear

Originally posted by Illustronic
Let me ask one simple question to the chemtrail believers. Why on earth would (whoever) spray chemicals in the sky that are visible to the naked eye?

Because that way everyone will think that they are contrails and not cotton on to what's going on

Must be working too because there are hundreds of guys seriously studying chemtrails this very minute to determine their impact on climate and to find ways stopping them from occurring. If only they knew the truth eh? But NASA never were known for intelligence ......

reply to post by Essan


You make a good point I can not prove that upper atmosphere where not different yesterday the same as you can not prove that they were we can both use information given to us by other's but neither can say that we took the readings ourself's but the lack of planes flying criss cross the sky and the lack of trail's that last 5-6 hours is still a valid point.
Also i see that in an answer to another persons post you said quote:
Contrails may be from aircraft that flew over several minutes ago, or even ones that were produced hundreds of miles away and have drifted over your area in the 100mph+ winds which typically exist at such altitudes.
Now if like you say 100 mph winds typically exist at such altitudes then the contrail would disperse quicker as winds of that strength would have scattered the ice crystals so the trail itself would not be strait?

reply to post by tommyjo


Well again this proves my point that you don't read my post's properly.
I was not a person who sits watching u-tube clip's all day and had never seen a clip on chemtrail's until after I had noticed the change in the trail's being left by air planes in the last 4 month's where I live.
Any smart person would research when they see something change in such a dramatic way especially when it has to do with the air that you breath, that your children breath.
The thing that puzzles me the most is that if these contrail's are normal then pollution laws clearly are not working in regards to air planes as they are polluting more than they have been in the past so which ever side you sit on in the chemtrail's battle you should be standing up and saying that we need tighter control's on planes pollution level's.

Originally posted by djcarlosa

Now if like you say 100 mph winds typically exist at such altitudes then the contrail would disperse quicker as winds of that strength would have scattered the ice crystals so the trail itself would not be strait?

No more so than any other clouds at that altitude.

As far as comparing atmospheric conditions, the nearest soundings are from Cambourne. Looking at figures for yesterday midday and today midday:

03808 Camborne Observations at 12Z 18 Mar 2011

PRES HGHT TEMP DWPT RELH MIXR DRCT SKNT THTA THTE THTV
hPa m C C % g/kg deg knot K K K
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

304.0 9013 -49.9 -65.3 15 0.02 275 45 313.8 313.8 313.8
300.0 9100 -50.5 -65.5 15 0.02 275 47 314.1 314.1 314.1
291.0 9296 -52.2 -67.2 15 0.02 270 49 314.4 314.5 314.4
286.0 9408 -53.1 -68.1 14 0.01 270 49 314.7 314.7 314.7
282.0 9498 -53.7 -68.5 15 0.01 270 49 315.1 315.1 315.1
273.0 9704 -55.0 -69.5 15 0.01 275 57 316.1 316.1 316.1
261.0 9989 -56.9 -70.9 15 0.01 275 58 317.4 317.5 317.4
256.0 10111 -57.4 -71.9 14 0.01 275 59 318.4 318.4 318.4
250.0 10260 -58.1 -73.1 13 0.01 275 60 319.6 319.6 319.6
245.0 10387 -58.5 -74.5 11 0.01 280 56 320.8 320.9 320.8
238.0 10570 -58.6 -76.3 9 0.01 275 60 323.4 323.4 323.4
229.0 10812 -58.7 -78.7 6 0.00 277 61 326.8 326.8 326.8

03808 Camborne Observations at 12Z 19 Mar 2011

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRES HGHT TEMP DWPT RELH MIXR DRCT SKNT THTA THTE THTV
hPa m C C % g/kg deg knot K K K
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

302.0 9177 -50.1 -57.1 43 0.06 305 71 314.0 314.3 314.0
300.0 9220 -50.1 -57.1 43 0.06 305 71 314.6 314.9 314.6
289.0 9462 -52.2 -59.6 40 0.04 305 74 314.9 315.1 315.0
280.0 9668 -54.0 -61.8 38 0.03 305 72 315.2 315.4 315.2
273.0 9832 -55.5 -63.5 36 0.03 305 75 315.4 315.5 315.4
270.0 9902 -56.0 -64.3 35 0.02 305 77 315.6 315.7 315.6
261.0 10118 -57.7 -66.7 31 0.02 305 76 316.2 316.3 316.2
250.0 10390 -60.1 -69.1 30 0.01 305 75 316.6 316.6 316.6
246.0 10489 -60.8 -69.8 30 0.01 305 74 317.0 317.1 317.0
235.0 10771 -62.8 -71.8 29 0.01 305 80 318.2 318.3 318.2
231.0 10876 -63.5 -72.5 28 0.01 309 78 318.6 318.7 318.7


Note the increase in relative humidity today. Also stronger winds. The data suggests contrails far more likely to occur today than yesterday.

Edit: I had not looked at these soundings until just now, Sightly pleased to see that my prediction re there being more humid air aloft today was right!

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by tommyjo

 

I never said that a piston engine wouldn't leave a contrail just that the kind of contrail would be different.
The fuel used would be different and that piston engines in ww2 planes where not as efficient in the way they used fuel and oil therefore there contrail's would be a mixture of fumes oil and unspent fuel.
Now a jet engine is a far more efficient and the contrail's left by them would therefore be different.
That was the point I was trying to get across.
also I would like to point out that I said that is it not possible that chemical weapons where used during ww2 after all mustard gas was used in the first,not that mustard gas was sprayed by ww2 planes.

edit on 18-3-2011 by djcarlosa because: added info

I do wish that people would read what is wrote properly before posting there reply and miss quoting me.

edit on 18-3-2011 by djcarlosa because: added info

But, if you allege that those trails are unspent fuel and oil, you would have those at all altitudes, not just up high.

Actually piston engines are generally more efficient than turbine engines, however you can only get so much power out of a piston engine, and mechanically they are more complex and less reliable than a turbine. A turboprop is when they made a propellor to a jet engine which does provide efficiency gains, especially for slower speed flying.

You are correct those that those older radial engines did use more oil in flight, I have flown both a DC-4 and DC-7. and the oil usage can be quite high. But, its not leaving massive trails across the sky all the time from it.

But you seem to be trying to grasp onto any kind of hope, that WW2 contrails were something besides contrails, with a bit of religious zeal.

reply to post by firepilot


Again you twist my words around where did I say anywhere in my posts that ww2 contrail's where not contrail's.
Apart from my second point which was a question on whether it was a possibility that chemical weapons where used in ww2 but I never stated that they where or how they could have been used.
my point was that the contrail's left by 2 different form's of propulsion would be different and the reasons why.
I hope this clears up any misreading of my posts.
Also I have been looking at the attitude at which ww2 bombers flew at and most sources agree that They flew at various heights between 15000 and 26000 feet not 30-38,000 feet at which jet planes operate today.

Originally posted by firepilot
But, if you allege that those trails are unspent fuel and oil, you would have those at all altitudes, not just up high.

Exactly. And by way of common sense, you don't want any engine (with rare exceptions like drag racing) to expel fuel, smoke, or anything else. It's not healthy for the engine.

Beside, in the reference I posted on the parallel thread, persistence of contrail correlates with humidity at high altitude where the phenomenon occurs. It's a metastable situation when condensation doesn't happen due to absence of aggregation centers like dust or radicals, or microscopic droplets which appear due to sudden change in pressure (like when a plane passes). Then you have condensation process run to a new equilibrium, which are stable drops. These then promptly freeze and form fine crystals of ice.