Republicans against free market!

Summary:

1) Big oil companies drill in US waters for free.
2) Big oil companies are the most profitable companies in the world.
3) The US government has giant deficits.
4) Big oil companies get SUBSIDIES even though they make billions of profit every year.
5) Small and medium companies have to bleed by paying taxes to make up for big business not paying.
6) Teachers, the very people who educate our children so they can see through lies like that one in the video, have to bleed instead of big business. The US population is systematically being dumbed down...which makes it even easier to mislead them. Fox "News" is allowed to blatantly lie during their news broadcast for the very same reason...
7) Poor people, the sick, and of course the middle class has to pay because billions (!!!) of tax subsidies for big business that doesn't need subsidies.

This video shows one of the main reasons the deficit is so high. Compared to what teachers cost, those subsidies are sooooo much more responsible for the deficit. And why does a small corner shop have to pay taxes, while the most profitable industry gets BILLIONS of subsidies and pays ZERO taxes?

I tell you why: The US politicians have sold out the citizens, and now work for CORPORATIONS (only the big ones that fund their campaigns though) and NOT citizens.

Until this gets fixed, the system won't improve...

That republican politician in the video is a DISGRACE!! Him talking about free market, while defending subsidies (which go AGAINST free market) is beyond wrong. He should look up the definition of free market, even a first semester economics student knows that definition. But you know what? I think he actually knows the correct definition, but assumes the citizens are too dumb to understand he's LYING to them...which isn't surprising given certain media outlets (*cough* FOX *cough*) repeating that lie over and over again

The US should take Canada as an example when it comes to media:


They refuse to let companies mislead their citizens and mask it as "news".

It's time those corporate politicians get kicked out!!

Not Joe Barton again, Mr. Shakedown himself. Has he not already made enough of a fool out of himself last year when he apologized to BP amounted Obama’s required payback to Gulf Coast citizens a “shakedown”.

There is only one industry I would ever support state subsidies for and that is farming and agriculture, not for the big corporate farm(ers) rather for the independent farmer, he must be assisted by the state because agriculture is not a very profitable business yet demands extensive labor and personal costs.

We should also tackle our corporate tax rate and the tax loopholes including the overseas bank accounts these corporations and wealthy individuals have. To lure back business we should not be punishing them we should be enticing them but we also should not be allowing them to deliberates hide money overseas and get away with not paying any taxes at all *cough*Exxon Mobile*cough*.

Currently we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world (if Japan already lowered theirs as they had legislated to do), 35% corporate tax and a 35% income tax is most definitely not desirable at all. Perhaps a 13% corporate tax and a 0-25% income tax? Sounds quite desirable to me, add on an addition 10% import tariff and not only will American businesses succeed but our economy will boom and the workers will prosper.

Ideally less than 10% of Americans and businesses should pay any taxes at all, add on great incentives for innovation and entrepreneurship with drastic tax cuts for inventors and dramatically cut costs on patents, also we should heavily deregulate every industry while reinstating glass-steagal to streamline the regulations and keep the system functioning properly.

reply to post by MrXYZ


I agree 100%
I don't know how this happened. I always knew the GOP would follow the money where ever it takes them and American consumer or small business be damned. How is it that we are agreeing?

It doesn't even matter if they're republican or democrat...they're ALL bought by big business, including Obama.





And for comedic value: How do you justify a 5000% price increase???

reply to post by MrXYZ


Why are we giving these multi-billion dollar businesses tax cuts in this nation? Because there is always this false assumption that wealth will trickle down.... to make it even worse, speculators were for the part responsible for the highs of oil prices in 2007, they made a killing for oil companies, they continue to this day, and yet we continue to reward them and continue to insist we need to offer more land to them so that they could drill and profit every last cent off the land. It is unbelievable, this mentality that we must reward these businesses for messing around, I don't understand it. At this very moment businesses are making record profits, we just restored the Bush tax cuts months ago, we've had the bush taxes for a good 8years, and what has this given us? A financial collapse and our jobs still being shifted overseas with nothing to replace them. Its unbelievable.

Ask folks here about this matter and you know what they'd say? Lower taxes more, drill baby drill. Unbelievable.

reply to post by Misoir

We should also tackle our corporate tax rate and the tax loopholes including the overseas bank accounts these corporations and wealthy individuals have.

The democrats actually tried to do exactly that earlier last year. They tried to close a loophole that allows large corporations to pay ZERO taxes by using off-shore accounts in the Caribbean...and wanted to use the additional tax revenue to pay for 911 first responders!! The very people who risked their lives saving others...

Guess who destroyed that effort...yup, the GOP. They CLAIM to be for small government and work for the "average citizen" when in reality, all they care about is their corporate sponsors. And they stick with this even if it means American heros like the ones running into burning buildings will die because of their decision.

See the future of Fascist America here?

Who has the power, and control of the mechanism for the control of the citizens?
Witness Wisconsin.

All spearheaded by conservatives and the GOP. It's commie this and socialist that if the people want a say in their behalf, but it's free market and business as usual for the mega corps and their preferential treatment.

Not that the dembs are blameless but....

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Why are we giving these multi-billion dollar businesses tax cuts in this nation?

It's not just companies, it's also the top 1% of the country that gets richer and richer thanks to tax breaks the rest of the people don't get. And they justify it by saying they will reinvest those savings and create jobs

Let's have a look at this:

1) Top 1% gets tax breaks and saves money.
2) Top 1% decides where to invest that money to make more money.
3) Top 1% realizes that it's easiest to make money in ASIA (!!!) now and not the US...so guess where they invest.

Anyone who had basic economics knows tax breaks are one of the WORST ways to increase investment spending. If you're rich, and you get a refund, where do would you invest your money? In the crumbling US economy or emerging markets that have a ridiculous growth rate compared to the US?

reply to post by MrXYZ


MrXYZ,

When will this B.S. stop?

Here are some more related examples of corporate "tax-dodging", as written by Paul Buchheit of DePaul University...

Some of the worst offenders include General Electric, which had $10 billion in profits and received a tax rebate; Bank of America, whose financial statements, according to a Bloomberg report, were "so delusional that they invite laughter"; oil giant Exxon, which paid no U.S. taxes; and Citigroup, with an astounding 427 foreign tax havens.

www.commondreams.org...

Wait! What? GE had $10 Billion in profits and got a tax rebate? Seriously, folks. This is becoming just plain old sad.

So, I suppose it'll fall upon us consumers with higher prices so these corporations can square up their tax bills, right?

From the same article linked above:

It is occasionally suggested that consumers end up paying corporate taxes anyway, through higher prices. This argument fails when the extraordinary increase in upper management pay is taken into consideration. Literally billions of dollars have gone to the richest 1% while their personal and corporate taxes have decreased.

Peace.

Originally posted by Misoir
We should also tackle our corporate tax rate and the tax loopholes including the overseas bank accounts these corporations and wealthy individuals have.

We could tackle them, if only the lobbyists were not around to whisper behind each ear of our politicians. Neither will you have luck closing corporate loopholes, most conservatives and republicans are opposed to adding further regulation. Closing loopholes is exactly that.

Currently we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world (if Japan already lowered theirs as they had legislated to do), 35% corporate tax and a 35% income tax is most definitely not desirable at all. Perhaps a 13% corporate tax and a 0-25% income tax? Sounds quite desirable to me, add on an addition 10% import tariff and not only will American businesses succeed but our economy will boom and the workers will prosper.

Oh goodness, straight out of the Reaganomics booklet. We already lowered taxes from more than 50% in the 70's to 35%, at to that the Bush tax cuts that were implemented in 2003 and again in 2010, so why do we find ourselves in this situation again? And why do you find yourself insisting to us that we do the same thing that evidently not done anything but increase inequality between the classes?

reply to post by whaaa


Well, Obama's just tagging along with anything the GOP wants...he didn't even put up a fight when it came to closing a tax loophole. Easier to take the money from the poor and middle class I guess, plus...they're not paying him

The thing is, whether you're GOP or DEM, you should be outraged by all of this!! The only ones profitting are the politicians...and the top 1% of earners. 99% of the population get exploited, and that includes democrats as well as republicans.

You've got the beginnings of some intersting ideas here. I have a question or two and would like to explore some other points you raise.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

1) Big oil companies drill in US waters for free.

Don't they have to make lease payments for drilling in federal or state land?

2) Big oil companies are the most profitable companies in the world.

If I sold a bazillion trillion dollars worth of something and made 1% profit I would make more money than anyone else in the world, but people would tell me to sell something I could make a real profit on. So if you look at how much money the oil giants make considering how much money they get in sales it's not much at all. Here's a link to the Forbes 500 for 2010 looking at the top 50 companies for profitability as a percentage of their sales. It's not dominated at all by oil, they do rather poorly on that list. Compare them to the pharmaceuticals, inernet and computer companies. Exxon doesn't even make the top 50.

3) The US government has giant deficits.

Yes they do. You're right and it's a terrible thing.

4) Big oil companies get SUBSIDIES even though they make billions of profit every year.

You're absolutely right. Of course, so do other companies and industries.

5) Small and medium companies have to bleed by paying taxes to make up for big business not paying.
6) Teachers, the very people who educate our children so they can see through lies like that one in the video, have to bleed instead of big business. The US population is systematically being dumbed down...which makes it even easier to mislead them. Fox "News" is allowed to blatantly lie during their news broadcast for the very same reason...
7) Poor people, the sick, and of course the middle class has to pay because billions (!!!) of tax subsidies for big business that doesn't need subsidies.

I understand that who pays what taxes gets to be very controversial. That's why congress fights over the budget and tax code seemingly every month.

This video shows one of the main reasons the deficit is so high. Compared to what teachers cost, those subsidies are sooooo much more responsible for the deficit. And why does a small corner shop have to pay taxes, while the most profitable industry gets BILLIONS of subsidies and pays ZERO taxes?

I think you'll have some disagreement with the position that oil companies aren't responsible for following the IRS code just like everyone else, and yes, I believe they pay taxes.

I tell you why: The US politicians have sold out the citizens, and now work for CORPORATIONS (only the big ones that fund their campaigns though) and NOT citizens. ... It's time those corporate politicians get kicked out!!

My understanding is that the big corporate donors gave to the Democrats last presidential election, as do the teacher unions and public employee unions. Are you concerned about both parties, or just one? And if they are all scum, who do we get to run and serve in their place?

Whomever is telling you big oil companies don't pay taxes is blowing smoke up your skirt. Exon pays over 30 billion a year in taxes. Oil companies typically pay about 40% of their income in taxes. Here are a few gov documents to peruse:
Exxon Mobile
ConocoPhillips
Chevron


Google makes a larger percentage of profit than big oil companies. How come I don't see any posts for Google to be hog tied and drug down Main Street?

reply to post by charles1952

Don't they have to make lease payments for drilling in federal or state land?

Nope, they only pay in countries outside the US.

If I sold a bazillion trillion dollars worth of something and made 1% profit I would make more money than anyone else in the world, but people would tell me to sell something I could make a real profit on. So if you look at how much money the oil giants make considering how much money they get in sales it's not much at all. Here's a link to the Forbes 500 for 2010 looking at the top 50 companies for profitability as a percentage of their sales. It's not dominated at all by oil, they do rather poorly on that list. Compare them to the pharmaceuticals, inernet and computer companies. Exxon doesn't even make the top 50.

Well, if you look at it in terms of pure profit, Exxon is number 1...the next most profitable company made over $10bil less! LINK

Yes they do. You're right and it's a terrible thing.

Yup, and it's mostly because the weapons lobby keeps on pushing for unnecessary wars and defence contracts...and silly tax subsidies to corporations that don't need it.

You're absolutely right. Of course, so do other companies and industries.

I understand that who pays what taxes gets to be very controversial. That's why congress fights over the budget and tax code seemingly every month.

Yet nothing seems to change...well, that's not true. Big corporations and rich people get more an more tax breaks...while the poor, middle class, and small/medium companies pay their full share.

I think you'll have some disagreement with the position that oil companies aren't responsible for following the IRS code just like everyone else, and yes, I believe they pay taxes.

Well, you're wrong Exxon for example paid ZERO income tax!! They paid less taxes than the guy polishing your shoes at Venice Beach!! That's just perverse...

My understanding is that the big corporate donors gave to the Democrats last presidential election, as do the teacher unions and public employee unions. Are you concerned about both parties, or just one?

Actually, big business ALWAYS sponsors both parties...just to be safe they have bought all of them. I am definitely more left leaning than right wing, but this isn't an issue for just one side, it should outrage everyone. And Obama has proven that the democrats are just as much working for big business as the GOP or tea party.

And if they are all scum, who do we get to run and serve in their place?

That's the big question. I don't think it matters who you vote for until the SYSTEM is fixed and big corporations can't buy politicians anymore.

Do I dare step into this steaming pile of poo?? Tax breaks have their place and there are plenty of corporations big and small that take advantage of them. Tax breaks attract business and they also steal business from areas without the tax breaks. I live in the Cleveland area and the tax break battle never ends as the suburbs all compete for what is left of big business in the area. Currently American Greetings is shopping around for a new location if its current home city of Brooklyn decides to ease up on tax breaks. Its a slippery slope.

american greetings

On the positive side, tax incentives are attracting much needed business to Cleveland. Recent tax incentives to Hollywood and other film producers have resulted in multiple productions being filmed on location in cleveland.

The Avengers to be filmed in Cleveland

Ups and downs in politics. Money talks... The same rules apply to both sides of the aisle and the tone taken with this thread is rather ridiculous considering the source of the comment in the OP. Time to put away the 12 inch paint brush and keep an eye out for low flying hypocrisy.

Perhaps its time to examine further reform within the system on all levels. Its all based on handshakes and paybacks you know. Just take a look at the 1000 plus temporary waivers being granted to specfic corps. and unions for Obamacare. I take special note with the union factor of this little game.

That means unions received about 26 percent of all waivers the administration has given out, but only about 12 percent of workers nationwide are unionized.

The waivers allow recipients to delay compliance with an Obamacare requirement that makes companies — or group policyholders like labor unions — provide more coverage for their employees or workers this year.

Read more: dailycaller.com...

These unions spent countless millions in the 2008 campaign and are poised to spend just as much or more on the 2012 campaign.

That being said. Its nice to see such glowing support for our nations free market here on ATS.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Whomever is telling you big oil companies don't pay taxes is blowing smoke up your skirt. Exon pays over 30 billion a year in taxes. Oil companies typically pay about 40% of their income in taxes. Here are a few gov documents to peruse:
Exxon Mobile
ConocoPhillips
Chevron


Google makes a larger percentage of profit than big oil companies. How come I don't see any posts for Google to be hog tied and drug down Main Street?

Yes...they do pay taxes...and then get a full refund (and some subsidies) in return!!
LINK

GE for example paid ZERO taxes last year, even though they had a $10bil pretax profit! In fact, they got a $1.1bil REFUND.

Before you make incorrect claims, look up "tax refunds" and read up on the subject. The official corporate tax rate is 35%, yet even before they managed to circumvent paying anything, GE only paid 5.3%. I'm not sure about you, but I'd LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE a 5.3% tax on income. I'd love it even more if they gave me a $1.1bil refund

Originally posted by charles1952

2) Big oil companies are the most profitable companies in the world.

If I sold a bazillion trillion dollars worth of something and made 1% profit I would make more money than anyone else in the world, but people would tell me to sell something I could make a real profit on. So if you look at how much money the oil giants make considering how much money they get in sales it's not much at all. Here's a link to the Forbes 500 for 2010 looking at the top 50 companies for profitability as a percentage of their sales. It's not dominated at all by oil, they do rather poorly on that list. Compare them to the pharmaceuticals, inernet and computer companies. Exxon doesn't even make the top 50.

Wow, that is a distortion of Herculean proportions. I dont even know how you did that with a straight face, you must have been laughing hysterically as you typed that.

"looking at the top 50 companies for profitability as a percentage of their sales"

Exxon, in the past several years, has posted year after RECORD profits for their company. All other oil companies are up as well. Compared to pharmaceuticals? Well, with pills, you can manufacture the supply and own the patent, so you can make an even bigger killing. Did you argument really just boil down to "Well, they are raping us, but at least they arent brutally raping us!"

I hope that paycheck from the oil company buys a nice life for you.

reply to post by jibeho


If tax breaks worked, let me ask you this: Why has the income disparity between the rich and poor increased by so much? Clearly it's not the general population that benefits from them

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/69f058d6bfe7.jpg[/atsimg]

Does that graph look fair to you? I mean, this graph is 100% proof of who politicians are working for.

How about those evil Hospitals while we are at it.

More than half of the 5,482 hospitals in the U.S. are nonprofits that don't pay federal, state or local taxes, according to the American Hospital Directory. This status is rooted in the 19th century: the first U.S. hospitals almost exclusively served the poor; others paid for medical care at home. The tax exemptions were meant to help hospitals shoulder the costs of providing such free care.

But in the past decade, some nonprofit hospitals have amassed big cash surpluses, even as they engaged in aggressive bill-collection tactics. Some provide less in charity care than the value of their tax breaks.

Helping drive the debate is the idea that any federal health-care overhaul that provides for the uninsured would reduce the need for charity care.

That kind of talk has nonprofit hospitals nervous and they have a lot to lose. In a report issued in December 2006, the Congressional Budget Office estimated nonprofit hospitals were spared $12.6 billion in taxes annually, on top of the $32 billion in federal, state and local subsidies the hospital industry as a whole received each year.

online.wsj.com...

Those evil hospitals are the only entities in my neck of the woods who are actually building and expanding. Thus creating jobs.

Its tricky isn't it?....

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by jibeho

 

If tax breaks worked, let me ask you this: Why has the income disparity between the rich and poor increased by so much? Clearly it's not the general population that benefits from them

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/69f058d6bfe7.jpg[/atsimg]

Does that graph look fair to you? I mean, this graph is 100% proof of who politicians are working for.

I certainly won't deny that this an imbalance. However, demonizing the wealthy and calling for their heads on silver platters will not accomplish anything. The imbalance has always been there. Sadly, its been growing exponentially. I'm not going to hate a guy just because he drives a Ferrari and earns a couple of million a year.