Stop blaming HAARP for natural disasters.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


I appreciate the vid, it is an interesting interview. My mind is most definitely not made up, i just choose to remain skeptical until sufficient evidence comes to light. As for the confession, it certainly would be something to hear the government admit anything. If the new madrid fault does go it would give tptb a pretty good excuse to implement marshall law.

reply to post by misterbananas


They certainly aren't known for they're transparency. If anything i think it may be a distraction, so the researchers focus on it instead of some other weapons installation (just spitballing a theory).

reply to post by CyberFawkes1105

Thanks for watching the Fulford interview with an open mind. I think the whole Japan earthquake/nuclear disaster HAARP threat is quite the coincidence.

You'd like a government confession, huh? OK, you're really making me work tonight:

In 1997, former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen made the following statement:

"Others [terrorists] are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves… So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations…It’s real, and that’s the reason why we have to intensify our [counterterrorism] efforts."

Cohen was talking about longitudinal EM wave interferometers (LWI) technology (also known as “Tesla howitzers”). LWI waves can effortlessly pass through the ocean and earth. Experts claim LWI waves can in fact pass through the earth and emerge on the other side. The United States and Russia have possessed this technology for decades.

Cohen would have you believe it is a technology that only terrorists would use. It depends on who you would call a terrorist.

In 1966, Professor Gordon J. F. MacDonald, associate director of the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics at the University of California, Los Angeles, was a member of the President’s Science Advisory Committee. MacDonald published papers on the use of environmental-control technologies for military purposes, including “earthquake engineering” (he also wrote about weather manipulation, climate modification, polar ice cap melting or destabilization, ozone depletion techniques).

“The revealed secrets surprised legislators,” writes Dr. Nick Begich. “Would an inquiry into the state of the art of electromagnetic manipulation surprise lawmakers today? They may find out that technologies developed out of the HAARP experiments in Alaska could deliver on Gordon MacDonald’s vision because leading-edge scientists are describing global weather as not only air pressure and thermal systems, but also as an electrical system.”

From the online book Angels Don't Play This HAARP: Advances in Tesla Technology

BTW, the author Dr. Nick Begich is the eldest son of the late United States Congressman from Alaska, Nick Begich Sr., who's plane crashed after he began questioning the JFK Warren Commission report.

I think most most people who are always skeptical or non-believers of conspiracies will only accept "official" statements from the government. The funny thing is that they will NEVER do that. Because once they do that they will have no more control. Imagine if they told everyone UFOs exist. We'll see the stock market crash the next day, people would stop working, and the govt will no longer receive tax from people to pay sheriffs to police all the outbreaks because of the chaos of potential alien invasion. The govt will then no longer be in control. Once they admit UFOs or extraterrestrials exist, then they r #ed. big time.

If you put yourself in the shoes of the government, and what their agenda is, you wouldn't feel surprised at all that they are doing all these shady stuff, hiding facts from citizens, killing people, setting off earthquakes, and taking over countries.

Example: The goal of a government is to not only govern people, but to control them as well. To do this, you need to hide a lot of stuff from the people. Think about it, would you want to let your kids know about the realities of this world? You fear that once they learn about sex, drugs, and alcohol, they'd be too curious to not try them out. Or how would you answer to your kid when he/she catches you and mommy going at it? You'd be afraid your kid would lose his/her naivete to knowing there's some really wicked stuff out there. They eventually you'd lose control. Put that into perspective then you'll see why so many things are not told.

If the Govt told you everything they were going to do, do you think we would allow them to do something like 911? or go to war with Iraq? You know there are so much history with the # US does to other countries that you can even take courses on. If you consider the things they did in the past, then you wouldn't be at all surprised at what they are capable of.

You should study objective studies on revolutions around the world. you will find that US CIA has their hands in every single one of them. And post the revolution, someone the US govt would always have some kind of entity or base set up in that country. It's twisted. And during all these revolutions, hundreds of thousands of people died. So why be surprised at all when technology gets really good and they can start killing people without being blamed on?

Another thing : remember when Area 51 was the big thing with UFO's and then after a while people started to catch onto the idea that the whole site could be a decoy to divert people's attention from the real UFO places? Well maybe think about HAARP in the same way if you believe in this stuff, because it could be the case.

Where else does anybody think about weather modification nowadays? Would love to know if there's other facilities people think of. If there's none then that already raises a red flag for me.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


The statement is at least a minor confirmation that the technology exists. If the government acknowledged that a technology exists and that forces opposed to them are trying to develop it, it only makes sense that they would try and beat them to it.
I found this on the darpa site and it seems like a small-scale earthquake machine is in development.

reply to post by CyberFawkes1105

Yep, except whenever a "small-scale development" appears on the DARPA website, I'd guess it's been in existence and fully developed for a couple decades.

Congrats CF, you really are open-minded. That's so rare on ATS. People tend to use any and all evidence, or lack thereof, to fit their beliefs.

reply to post by GoldenFleece

Yep, except whenever a "small-scale development" appears on the DARPA website, I'd guess it's been in existence and fully developed for a couple decades.

That seems to be their general MO.

Originally posted by CyberFawkes1105
The statement is at least a minor confirmation that the technology exists. If the government acknowledged that a technology exists and that forces opposed to them are trying to develop it, it only makes sense that they would try and beat them to it.

It seems that that's a pretty popular quote used to "prove" HAARP can actually accomplish the wild claims you see on the internet. When you read it in context, though, it's plain that he was talking about "false threats" used for terror purposes, and not people actually having this technology.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

source

For what it's worth, a couple days ago I sent an email to Dr. Dennis Papadopoulos, Professor of Physics, University of Maryland, Senior Science Advisor, HAARP asking him if HAARP could have caused the Japan quake. Here's his response:

From: Konstantinos Dennis Papadopoulos
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: HAARP question
Date: Mar 13, 2011 4:33 PM
HAARP cannot do anything like that. Its power is electromagnetic like a radio station. Radio stations put out more than 1000000 time more power than HAARP and do not create earthquakes. In any way HAARP has not operated during the last month
DP

Of course, the believers immediately claimed he's lying. Take it as you will.

I also posted this nugget from the Geophysical Research site:

ELF signals generated by the HAARP heater are also simultaneously observed at a nearby ground‐based site, allowing a comparison of the ELF power in the Earth‐ionosphere waveguide versus that detected on DEMETER. The estimated values of power onboard DEMETER at different frequencies range from 0.32W to 4W, while the values of power estimated from a ground receiver at a distance of 36 km from HAARP range from 2.71W to 4.22W.

source
I still fail to see how a signal of less than 5 watts can cause an earthquake.

A little real science always helps in discussions like this, assuming you don't automatically assume that everyone involved with anything concerning HAARP is lying to hide the "truth".

Hey CyberFawkes1105, what you seriously need to do is look up a member called Bedlam and read everything he has posted about HAARP. He has waged pretty much a one man war against all the stupid HAARP causes earthquakes, heamaroids etc threads, and he's really worth listening to. He is an expert in some applicable field, radar or something. I think he's given up trying to convince people to be sensible about the subject. He hasn't entered any of these silly HAARP threads in a long while.

As an aside, there is an obscure Russian science paper kicking around the net that suggests it is possible to induce earthquakes electromagnetically but you need to send a current through the ground. HAARP can not do this.

reply to post by mrwiffler

Hey CyberFawkes1105, what you seriously need to do is look up a member called Bedlam and read everything he has posted about HAARP. He has waged pretty much a one man war against all the stupid HAARP causes earthquakes, heamaroids etc threads, and he's really worth listening to. He is an expert in some applicable field, radar or something. I think he's given up trying to convince people to be sensible about the subject. He hasn't entered any of these silly HAARP threads in a long while.

Thanks for the suggestion I'll take a look at his threads.

Originally posted by kwakakev
Here in Australia we have at least two, possibly three HAARP sites.

Just exactly where do you get such nonsense from? Why do people keep making garbage like this up?

There is some evidence to indicate that HAARP had a part to play in the recent Chile and Haiti earthquakes as well as the boxing day tsunami

More garbage, there is zero evidence HAARP was involved in them.

Care to show us all the "evidence" that you have showing HAARP was involved?

reply to post by subject x

From: Konstantinos Dennis Papadopoulos To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: HAARP question Date: Mar 13, 2011 4:33 PM HAARP cannot do anything like that. Its power is electromagnetic like a radio station. Radio stations put out more than 1000000 time more power than HAARP and do not create earthquakes. In any way HAARP has not operated during the last month DP

not sure if but this guy is being entirely truthful.

this is from the haarp website:

A high power transmitter and antenna array operating in the High Frequency (HF) range. The transmitter is capable of delivering up to 3.6 million Watts to an antenna system consisting of 180 crossed dipole antennas arranged as a rectangular, planar array.

most large radio stations operate around 100,000 watts. last time i checked that was nowhere near 1 million times 3.6 million. as your other source stated haarp uses around 5 watts in the ELF rang, but far more in the high frequencies. Although the point still stands that not enough energy is used in the ELF range to really impact anything.

Good Post Subject X

In the old days we used to blame the gods for natural disasters. It somehow makes it easier to deal with if somehow they were a reason for what happened. And if we pray to the gods, and promise to do their biding, they'll ensure such disasters don't afflict us.

Today, we blame HAARP. Same thing. And if we pray to TPTB, or whoever controls HAARP, and do as they ask us, then they won't target us. It's just easier than accepting that there is no purpose, no pattern, no meaning to big natural disasters and they can hit anyone, anywhere at any time and there's nothing we can do about it.

reply to post by Essan


That would explain the fervor with which some choose to argue the subject with. It's a scary world if you think that something terrible can happen at any time, for no reason. I guess it's reassuring for some to think that if they play their cards right they can avoid calamity. I wish this was the case.

reply to post by subject x

The threats that Cohen spoke about may have been false, but chemical and biological weapons, Ebola viruses, etc., sure aren't. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any Dugway Proving Grounds, Pine Bluff Arsenals and Plum Islands, etc.

And something tells me DARPA's "small-scale earthquake machine" isn't a figment of their imagination either. Those DARPA guys have some mind-blowing stuff (literally and figuratively.) Russians have had scalar weapons probably since they were first tested on the USS Thresher in 1963, if not earlier.

To try and deny that the U.S. hasn't successfully competed with Soviet scalar weapon technology over the last half century is preposterous.

And to ignore the fact that Tesla claimed that he could "split the world in two" with his technology over 100 years ago is equally insulting. Hell, Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower was probably responsible for overshooting Peary on his way to Antarctica and obliterating Tunguska with 100 billion watts!

But HAARP has less power than an AM/FM clock radio? C'mon...

If you want to argue that the owners/controllers of the U.S. government aren't the real global mafia, that's one thing.

But to say they don't have the technical capabilities to own the weather and most of nature herself is quite another.

Forget about HAARP! HAARP is probably for weather control...

But think about it.. if the military has anyigravity technology then causing an earthquake should be a piece of cake with gravity control.

But people are probably less likely to believe in gravity control because of the stigma.. so stick to HAARP!

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
The threats that Cohen spoke about may have been false, but chemical and biological weapons, Ebola viruses, etc., sure aren't.

But the quote is, never the less, being taken out of context pretty regularly to try and "prove" that HAARP can cause earthquakes and such, when the simple fact is that it can't.

And something tells me DARPA's "small-scale earthquake machine" isn't a figment of their imagination either.

That's a totally different technology, which has nothing to do with HAARP.

Russians have had scalar weapons probably since they were first tested on the USS Thresher in 1963, if not earlier.

To try and deny that the U.S. hasn't successfully competed with Soviet scalar weapon technology over the last half century is preposterous.

Yeah... When it comes to scalar weapons, no matter what source is used, it all comes back to Col. Tom Bearden. I have yet to find a credible physicist who does not think that Bearden is plain wrong and using a lot of junk science. Some think he's outright nuts. If you can find me something from a credible physicist (not someone from RB Duncan's site, please) who agrees with the whole scalar weapon thing, please let me know so I can become better informed.

And to ignore the fact that Tesla claimed that he could "split the world in two" with his technology over 100 years ago is equally insulting. Hell, Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower was probably responsible for overshooting Peary on his way to Antarctica and obliterating Tunguska with 100 billion watts!

That's another pretty far fetched theory that has yet to be proven. Not to say Tesla wasn't brilliant, but I don't think he could do a lot of what he claimed. He was great at outside the box conceptualizing, but most of his stuff lack the work to back it up.

But HAARP has less power than an AM/FM clock radio? C'mon...

I don't know. How much power does a clock radio put out?

If you want to argue that the owners/controllers of the U.S. government aren't the real global mafia, that's one thing.

No, I have no desire to debate that, although I don't believe that the government wants to kill us all.

But to say they don't have the technical capabilities to own the weather and most of nature herself is quite another.

I have yet to see verifiable facts to prove that they have those technical capabilities. The best I've seen is the potential to slightly affect the weather.

Originally posted by subject x
But the quote is, never the less, being taken out of context pretty regularly to try and "prove" that HAARP can cause earthquakes and such, when the simple fact is that it can't.

Cohen's quote is taken out of context only by failing to include the end of his statement, "It’s real, and that’s the reason why we have to intensify our [counterterrorism] efforts."

That's a totally different technology, which has nothing to do with HAARP.

So I'm referring to different earthquake technologies? Maybe you could explain the differences. How many are there? And how is it that you're familiar with these technologies?

Yeah... When it comes to scalar weapons, no matter what source is used, it all comes back to Col. Tom Bearden. I have yet to find a credible physicist who does not think that Bearden is plain wrong and using a lot of junk science. Some think he's outright nuts.

So your objection is that the Army Colonel whose website I linked to is "plain wrong" and "nuts." How convenient. That sounds like something Phage would say. You're starting to sound like an experienced HAARP debunker who makes definitive statements without having anything to back them up -- except to somehow know a variety of unnamed "earthquake technologies" and "credible physicists."

That's another pretty far fetched theory that has yet to be proven. Not to say Tesla wasn't brilliant, but I don't think he could do a lot of what he claimed. He was great at outside the box conceptualizing, but most of his stuff lack the work to back it up.

Perhaps you forgot it was Tesla who invented the radio, vacuum tube amplifier, fluorescent bulb, neon light, speedometer, automobile ignition system, not to mention discovering X-rays and the basics behind radar, the electron microscope and the microwave?

I have yet to see verifiable facts to prove that they [HAARP] have those technical capabilities.

Of course, because you coincidentally showed up just after I'd already explained HAARP's capabilities to another member who was open-minded enough to consider my evidence.

So feel free to review the parts of this thread that you missed.

The best I've seen is the potential to slightly affect the weather.

Here's an interesting video that was shot just prior to the Japan earthquake that has some "slightly affected" cloud cover:

I agree, Haarp is not responsible