I have a question for christians (not offensive)

reply to post by mbartelsm


The outcome of humanity is or eternal life or the lake of fire. There will come a day we will be judged.

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
reply to post by mbartelsm

 

The outcome of humanity is or eternal life or the lake of fire. There will come a day we will be judged.

Yes, life on Earth is "basic training" for eternity.

And just like basic training for the military there are washouts.

Originally posted by UB2120
reply to post by Leahn

 

In my opinion those were not the words of Jesus. It does not match the message that he taught. Again, he tried to break man from the age long beliefs in sacrifice and ritual. Why would he teach about a loving God of all men in one breath and then say he must be sacrificed. The whole concept of sacrifice is incompatible with the God Jesus taught about.

You're ignoring many aspects of God in your comment. If God was only loving, your comment would make sense. However, as it is, He isn't. He is also wise, He is also powerful, He is also holy, and He is also just. This is exemplified in many of Jesus teachings, quickly coming to mind the teaching that God will only forgive you if you forgive others. The whole concept of sacrifice is not about love, but about justice. It isn't incompatible with the God Jesus taught, quite the opposite. It is perfectly compatible with his teachings, that God is not only love, but also just, and powerful, and wise, and holy. Only those that desire to reduce God to be about love, and about love only will find the idea incompatible.

reply to post by Leahn

The whole concept of sacrifice is not about love

I completely disagree.


"Greater love hath no man than this, that a Man lay down His life for His friends." ~ Jesus


"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ~ John 3:16

Only those that desire to reduce God to be about love, and about love only will find the idea incompatible.

People reject God because they are the seed of the serpent, vessels of wrath. You could perfectly explain this to them that God is not just perfect love, but perfect justice, perfect wrath, perfectly holy, et cetra and there would still be the same complaints and rejection of Him. People will still judge God not by His standards, but by human ones.

Quite laughable actually.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Leahn
I completely disagree.

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a Man lay down His life for His friends." ~ Jesus

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ~ John 3:16

Ok, I stand corrected. Maybe I should have said that the point of the ransom and the sacrifice is equally about justice as it is about love (an Adam for another Adam, as Paul said). Have a star.

Originally posted by Leahn

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Leahn
I completely disagree.

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a Man lay down His life for His friends." ~ Jesus

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ~ John 3:16

Ok, I stand corrected. Maybe I should have said that the point of the ransom and the sacrifice is equally about justice as it is about love (an Adam for another Adam, as Paul said). Have a star.

No, it's about "REDEMPTION". It's the quality God holds nearest to His heart. The purpose of the Great White Throne judgment is about justice. Have a star back for the effort.

Jesus Christ was slain before the foundation of the world. It's about Love and Redemption.

reply to post by mbartelsm


I know the answer.

The fact that you said "your" God, means that you have the wrong God, because not all Christians are right.

The correct term is the God of every living human being, if you believe in this God then you have a chance.

reply to post by Leahn


The animal nature — the tendency toward evil-doing — may be hereditary, but sin is not transmitted from parent to child. Sin is the act of conscious and deliberate rebellion against the Father’s will and the Sons’ laws by an individual will creature.

When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.

All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one’s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.

Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.

Even if God were the stern and legal monarch of a universe in which justice ruled supreme, he certainly would not be satisfied with the childish scheme of substituting an innocent sufferer for a guilty offender.

This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature’s faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be “forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors.”

Originally posted by mbartelsm
Hello ATS christian members, I have had a doubt for a while:
What happens to a person who do not commit sins and/or regret the ones done and tries to repair them, but doesn't believe in your God?
I mean, if a person who is better than many, if not most, of us just doesn't believe, is he or she going to hell?

Dear mbartelsm,

I know I have seen your posts before but don't remember the discussion. That having been said, sinners do go to heaven, that is what is says. We all sin. Heaven (for lack of a better word) is a situation for people who care about others, who love their brother as themselves and God with all their heart (I know I wrote it backward for a reason). So a non-believer who loves others is halfway there.

Now we get to the God thing. Loving God with all your heart. Well, what is it to love God? Which aspect of God are we to love? Lets face it if someone says that they love God, they don't understand him completely, heck, we don't understand other humans completely, especially not the opposite sex. So to say you know God means you only know part, to say you don't know him at all means you don't even know yourself as we are all aspects of the divine, part of him, his creation. Do you love those in your life that matter with all your heart and others as you love yourself. Do you love anything more than yourself, that is the aspect of God you understand, that aspect of love.

Now we come to the final group and they already failed your test. They believe they are more important than anyone else. Their greatest love is for self. We get what we seek, if all you care about is yourself, eventually that is all you have and for eternity, we choose to be God and we get to work out the order of the universe ourselves, alone. The only unforgivable sin is rejecting God, rejecting loving someone or others more than yourself.

Now there is a loving, kind and accurate response to your question from a Christian. Who shall attack me first, a person claiming to be a Christian or a person claiming to be an atheist. Please give me odds, it really doesn't matter to me. A troll by any other name is what we shall see. Why, because they don't want believers and non-believers to get along, they thrive on conflict and hatred and bigotry. Be well.

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
reply to post by mbartelsm

 

Heaven, Hell - its all BS. Anyone who believes these fairy tales is a fool.

forgive me if i am wrong but i believe that relatives of yours or yourself are in or are in support of the freemasons and i have never even met you!

i would like you to please if you want to, answer me this, what do you think Your purpose is in this life? people may find this question to be off topic but i find the relation.

reply to post by mbartelsm


To answer the initial question, don't listen to people (even Christians) who stated "this is a hard question" or "I'm not sure but I think..." or anything of that sort. There is only one short answer and some others have already answered it, but I'll clarify.

First of all, there is nobody in the world that "does not commit sins". We are all human and it's impossible to live a full life without committing a sin, it's in our nature (this began from Adam and Eve, when Satan altered God's 'perfect' creation- humans) - and therefore, by this, we are all bound to hell (since we have sin [Satan] in our nature) unless we turn to Jesus to 'Save' us (this is why he is called the 'Savior') from our sins. Jesus lived a perfect life with no sin and this is proof that he was truly the Son of God. Being saved isn't as simple as a prayer, however, you must repent (turn away from sin as much as possible) with the assistance of the Holy Spirit (which you gain and it grows within you as you read the Bibie, pray, and understand God). Anyways...

Based on that, to answer your question, YES. If a person is of a higher moral or social value [or a person who is 'better than many'] (and doesn't believe in Jesus and God) doesn't believe in Christ's Saving power, they will perish to hell, because their sins are ultimately not erased, and they drag the sinful soul down to its origin, the place of Satan, hell. But if one is not 'better than many' or is of a lower moral or social value (and believes in Jesus and God), no matter how much they sinned in their lives, if they have truly turned to God and repented and accepted Jesus as their Savior, their sins are taken upon Jesus (who suffered on the cross) and they are no longer in danger of the fires of hell.

And remember, the concept of "believing" isn't just pretending, it's about accepting Jesus as your LORD also, keeping him in mind with every action you do in life, pleasing him.

Best of luck to you my friend,
I hope you choose the narrow path.

-Dave (17 y.o)

if you people search up 'the occult in all goverments' you will see that alot of the governments believe.....

however its not god they worship but the fallen one

Down with the nwo

reply to post by mbartelsm


You create your own reality.
Are you asking other people view of reality in order to follow...or persuade.

Or maybe you are just curious...only you know.

reply to post by jean59


PS...Whatever name you may or may not give god...

Follow your heart and it will lead you home...