"ET" can't explain UFOs

reply to post by Aliensun

The OP claims to be an abductee. Perhaps he is. I make the same claim myself. It would be interesting to know the details of his experience. Perhaps like mine, he does not remember too much of his missing time. But I know the beginning and the ending of my experience and other things and they are exact indications of what seems to usually be the typical abduction case.

Greetings, Aliensun. I too have to make that claim, and I too would like to hear of the OP, and your own experience?

It has happened to me, what I deem a true "abduction," that is, taken by force without your own informed consent, only one time. I was driving semi in West Texas. I was taken from the highway, and have no, not even a hint of what went on for some 6 hours. I woke up in my truck, engine running, and I was placing it into gear, which produces a vibration felt through the arms and hand. I do not know what "they" did, but I will tell you this, their craft looked like a small Sun set down on Interstate 10. I received the first and only sunburn, and after that my pancreas stopped producing certain sugars, requiring me to intake much sugar each day, or get sick, and suffer seizures. I have spent a great amount of time thinking on this experience, trying to remember something.

On the other hand, other times it was like an invitation. I could either go, or stay.

Originally posted by Student X

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by Student X
I am in contact with that which the man-on-the-street would call "aliens", yes.

Oke, are you able to describe in laymen’s words with what or who it is that you are in contact with?

In Jungian terms I am in contact with archetypes of the collective unconscious in symbolic forms.

Oke, I have never heard of that option before and I have really not the slightest idea what I must imagine myself by that, so you lost me here.

Originally posted by Student X
In "layman's terms" I am in contact with "aliens" and who knows what kind of imagery goes on in a layman's head when they use that obsolete word.

Well, I am such a layman and the kind of imagery I have about that obsolete word “aliens” in my head is this.
It is clear to me that Earth, is being visited by different very advanced non-human beings and we have some kind of very important connection/relationship with one or perhaps more than one of them.

I can only guess from where those beings coming from, but most likely from out our own galaxy, the Milky Way or other galaxies in our universe, and perhaps even from out other universes/dimensions.

You said earlier,

Originally posted by Student X
If there are advanced beings out there that evolved on another planet, then psychic projection / psychic teleportation (jaunting) would be far more economical and practical than clunky ol' nuts n' bolts spaceships.

I do not know if there are advanced beings out there that use psychic projection / psychic teleportation for the reason as being far more economical and practical, but I do know that some of them use those as you call them clunky ol' nuts n' bolts spaceships.

Leslie Kean said in her book; “UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record” which as I am correct is already proven to be a fact.
And that statement is supported by others as well.

There exists in our skies, worldwide, a solid, physical phenomenon that appears to be under intelligent control and is capable of speeds, maneuverability, and luminosity beyond current known technology.

To call them as you do clunky ol' nuts n' bolts spaceships is in my opinion quite unrealistic.

She also said in there,

And the hypothesis that UFOs are of extraterrestrial or interdimensional origin is a rational one and must be taken into account, given the data we have.

And this hypothesis is also supported by others as well, and I am one of them.

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Oke, I have never heard of that option before and I have really not the slightest idea what I must imagine myself by that, so you lost me here.

Sorry. Here is some suggested reading.

Daimonic Reality: A Field Guide to the Otherworld
The Trickster and the Paranormal
Angels and Aliens
Alien Identities : Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena
The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious (Collected Works of C.G. Jung Vol.9 Part 1)
Authors of the Impossible: The Paranormal and the Sacred
Wonders in the Sky: Unexplained Aerial Objects from Antiquity to Modern Times

Good luck.

I have always believed the UFO phenomenon was real, I just cannot, and still cannot, figure out what the phenomenon is. People are seeing something in the skies and in their own homes as well. Now are these people who claim to be abducted lying? I don't think they are lying, but I do not think ETs are the best answer for what is going on though.

If what people are claiming is actually happening to them then I feel it is much more spiritual in nature as opposed to an other worldly visitor. It just seems like these "things" do things that would not be expected from a more advanced race.

Are they demons/angels? I do not know. Are they aliens/ETs? I do not know. Are they a figment of the mind that many people have had play out in front of their eyes? I still do not know. The only thing I know is that there is indeed something happening to these people. Now are these things physical in nature is a debatable question; and a question that I feel someone, maybe the government or maybe only God, knows the answer to. But I will be here until I find an answer or I die.

Originally posted by Student X

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Oke, I have never heard of that option before and I have really not the slightest idea what I must imagine myself by that, so you lost me here.

Sorry. Here is some suggested reading.

Daimonic Reality: A Field Guide to the Otherworld
The Trickster and the Paranormal
Angels and Aliens
Alien Identities : Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena
The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious (Collected Works of C.G. Jung Vol.9 Part 1)
Authors of the Impossible: The Paranormal and the Sacred
Wonders in the Sky: Unexplained Aerial Objects from Antiquity to Modern Times

Good luck.

Thanks, here is some suggested reading from me.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/28750793a3bf.jpg[/atsimg]

Lou Baldin has written amongst others two in my opinion marvelous UFO/ET related books, namely “A day with an Extraterrestrial”.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3e3986e70373.jpg[/atsimg]

An abduction by an extraterrestrial being leads to the knowledge of the meaning of life for a middle-aged man, whose life is turned upside down by the experience.
As the terror subsides, the illusions of life are stripped away and replaced by awe, wonder and intrigue, as the alien being takes the man on a mysterious journey through the solar system and the stars in our Milky Way galaxy.

and “In League With A UFO”.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/86f15c1bb9ea.jpg[/atsimg]

The Alien ship recovered in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, was filled with Alien gadgetry. The gadgetry or spawn, as some of the covert operators called the Alien things, infested the crashed flying saucer. The Alien spawn had magical and bizarre qualities with evil tendencies. The gadgets served as tools and medical instruments and seemingly possessed personalities of their own. In their attempts to better understand the extraterrestrial menace visiting Earth, the covert committee performed extensive experiments on humans using the Alien gadgets.

Leslie Kean’s book;

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8ecdfd386728.jpg[/atsimg]

“UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record”.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d45b520bdccb.jpg[/atsimg]

An Air Force major is ordered to approach a brilliant UFO in his Phantom jet over Tehran. He repeatedly attempts to engage and fire on unusual objects heading right toward his aircraft, but his missile control is locked and disabled. Witnessed from the ground, this dogfight becomes the subject of a secret report by the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency.

In Belgium, an Air Force colonel investigates a series of widespread sightings of unidentified triangular objects, and he sends F-16s to attempt a closer look. Many hundreds of eyewitnesses, including on-duty police officers, file reports, and a spectacular photograph of an unidentifiable craft is retrieved and analyzed.

Here at home, a retired chief of the FAA’s Accidents and Investigations Division reveals the agency’s response to a thirty-minute encounter between an aircraft and a gigantic UFO over Alaska, which occurred during his watch and is documented on radar.

Now all three of these distinguished men have written breathtaking, firsthand accounts about these extraordinary incidents. They are joined by Air Force generals and a host of high-level sources—including Fife Symington III, former governor of Arizona, and Nick Pope, former head of the British Defence Ministry’s UFO Investigative Unit—who have agreed to write their own detailed, personal stories about UFO encounters and investigations for the first time.

They are coming forward now because of Leslie Kean, an investigative reporter who has spent the last ten years studying the still unexplained UFO phenomenon. Kean reviewed hundreds of government documents, aviation reports, radar data, and case studies with corroborating physical evidence. She carefully examined scientifically analyzed photographs and interviewed dozens of high-level officials and aviation witnesses from around the world. With the support of former White House chief of staff John Podesta, Kean draws on her research to separate fact from fiction and to lift the veil on decades of U.S. government misinformation. Throughout, she presents irrefutable evidence that unknown flying objects—metallic, luminous, and seemingly able to maneuver in ways that defy the laws of physics—actually exist.

No one yet knows what these objects are, even though they affect aviation safety and possibly national security. The phenomenon has been officially acknowledged by numerous foreign governments. For these reasons and many others, Kean concludes that the UFO problem must be more widely recognized and ultimately solved through an unbiased scientific investigation. The material presented throughout this landmark book is sobering, unflinching, and undeniably awe-inspiring, and moves us toward a goal of properly addressing this worldwide mystery.

www.amazon.com...

Have a good read.

Originally posted by davidwaters84
I have always believed the UFO phenomenon was real, I just cannot, and still cannot, figure out what the phenomenon is. People are seeing something in the skies and in their own homes as well.

And in their dreams and visions.

Now are these people who claim to be abducted lying? I don't think they are lying, but I do not think ETs are the best answer for what is going on though.

Especially given the similarity between fairy abduction, angelic/demonic abduction, and "ET" abduction.

If what people are claiming is actually happening to them then I feel it is much more spiritual in nature as opposed to an other worldly visitor. It just seems like these "things" do things that would not be expected from a more advanced race.

Bingo.

Are they demons/angels? I do not know. Are they aliens/ETs? I do not know. Are they a figment of the mind that many people have had play out in front of their eyes? I still do not know. The only thing I know is that there is indeed something happening to these people. Now are these things physical in nature is a debatable question; and a question that I feel someone, maybe the government or maybe only God, knows the answer to. But I will be here until I find an answer or I die.

Whatever they are, they can cross the threshold between physical and non-physical (psychic) realities. Carl Jung would say that reality is not purely physical and not purely psychic. The physical/mental dichotomy, the subject/object dichotomy is somewhat false. Jung would say reality is psycho-physical, and that archetypes of the collective unconscious, such as the trickster, can cross the boundary and manifest into "our reality." The symbolic form that they take when they do so is in part culturally determined. Thats why the forms change from age to age, culture to culture. But underneath the differing forms are the same archetypes.

reply to post by Student X



"Whatever they are, they can cross the threshold between physical and non-physical (psychic) realities. Carl Jung would say that reality is not purely physical and not purely psychic. The physical/mental dichotomy, the subject/object dichotomy is somewhat false. Jung would say reality is psycho-physical, and that archetypes of the collective unconscious, such as the trickster, can cross the boundary and manifest into "our reality." The symbolic form that they take when they do so is in part culturally determined. Thats why the forms change from age to age, culture to culture. But underneath the differing forms are the same archetypes."

What do you think "they" are? And what do you mean by "trickster"? Are you referring to a demon or spirit, or maybe even Lucifer himself? I would really like to hear what these "things" are in your opinion.

Originally posted by davidwaters84

What do you think "they" are? And what do you mean by "trickster"? Are you referring to a demon or spirit, or maybe even Lucifer himself? I would really like to hear what these "things" are in your opinion.

They are autonomous patterns in the collective psyche. In and of themselves they are formless but when they surface to the conscious mind they take form because the primordial language of the psyche is image. They are magnified dreams, to use a phrase Joseph Campbell favored, they are living myths to use a phrase Carl Jung favored.

The trickster is an archetype of the collective unconscious, which means it is a universal and autonomous pattern in the psyche which surfaces in religion, myth, dreams, visions, etc. Because people have psychic ability, archetypes are not trapped in our skulls. Consciousness is non-local and so are the patterns in consciousness.

"Demons" and "spirits" are words that refer to archetypes in specific forms, as are words like "alien" and "poltergeist". All of these things are manifestations of archetypes in the human psyche. Some examples of archetypes are the archetypes of mana, mother, father, trickster, Wise Old Woman or Man, temptress, shadow.

Originally posted by davidwaters84 Now are these things physical in nature is a debatable question; and a question that I feel someone, maybe the government or maybe only God, knows the answer to. But I will be here until I find an answer or I die.

God is very definitely a man made invention.......that I know with 100% certainty.

How do I know?.....

Well would a loving omnipotent God let the people that got swept away in the Japanese Tsunami suffer a terrifying death......just because they had the bad fortune of living on the East coast of Japan?

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by davidwaters84 Now are these things physical in nature is a debatable question; and a question that I feel someone, maybe the government or maybe only God, knows the answer to. But I will be here until I find an answer or I die.

God is very definitely a man made invention.......that I know with 100% certainty.

How do I know?.....

Well would a loving omnipotent God let the people that got swept away in the Japanese Tsunami suffer a terrifying death......just because they had the bad fortune of living on the East coast of Japan?

God is a "mask" that we have placed over the archetype of the Self (the center of the psyche).

The ego-self wouldn't last a second in the full radiance of the center of the psyche. Masks are necessary. They conceal and reveal simultaneously.

reply to post by Logical one


I could give my opinion on why God does and does not do things, but I would rather not turn this into a religious debate.

reply to post by Student X


So are saying they are more or less figments of our minds come to life? Like having a TV show pop out and interact with real life?

Please do explain further. I like where this is going.

Originally posted by davidwaters84
reply to post by Student X

 

So are saying they are more or less figments of our minds come to life? Like having a TV show pop out and interact with real life?

Please do explain further. I like where this is going.

I think a phrase like 'figments of our minds' is far too reductionist and materialistic. Mind is irreducible. When a 'figment' is projected outside the human skull by unconscious psychic ability it becomes something much more. It becomes a transpersonal "supernatural" force.

Like having a TV show pop out and interact with real life, yes perhaps, where the TV characters are localized forms of universal archetypes which can't be reduced and can't be controlled by the ego. They can become complexes which overwhelm the ego.

reply to post by Student X


So we cause these things to happen simply because we exist? And once they are free we no longer have control of them?

Originally posted by davidwaters84
reply to post by Student X

 

So we cause these things to happen simply because we exist? And once they are free we no longer have control of them?

We cause these things to happen because we project our psyche and its contents out into the unknown. For example, take alchemy. Chemistry was an unknown at one point, and alchemists projected their psyche into the alchemical process. As a result the alchemical process was a mystical process (outer mirrored inner) and occasionally mind-over-matter would actually turn lead into gold. Naturally, the alchemist would think it was due to the alchemical tools and procedures. But it wasn't, it was due to the powers of the Mind.

Now, chemistry is a known. We no longer project into it. Space is the unknown now. We have projected our psyche and its archetypal patterns and contents out into space and it bounces back in the form of aliens.

Originally posted by davidwaters84
reply to post by Logical one

 

I could give my opinion on why God does and does not do things, but I would rather not turn this into a religious debate.

Well the answer is pretty simple......he doesn't exist..........no debate needed.

reply to post by Student X


So are you saying we shape our world in the same way, that our beliefs and ideas make up our reality?

Originally posted by davidwaters84
reply to post by Student X

 

So are saying they are more or less figments of our minds come to life? Like having a TV show pop out and interact with real life?

Please do explain further. I like where this is going.

The one thing we have to bear in mind in all this is that despite advances in medical technologies, the human brain is STILL relatively little understood.

It is indeed amazing how the human mind will visualise something that will convince the person that what he is seeing is very real.
An illustration of this is when a simple stick/pole, that was set up as an experiment was placed in Loch Ness........the pole was submerged and re-emerged from the surface multiple times........when people were interviewed afterwards and asked if they noticed anything unusual.......a number of people swore they saw Nessie bobbing up and down, and one young guy even went on to describe a neck and head in great detail.......but all that was in the water was a plain old featureless pole!

Originally posted by davidwaters84
reply to post by Student X

 

So are you saying we shape our world in the same way, that our beliefs and ideas make up our reality?

Yeah pretty much. Like the article in the OP said, matter and energy emerge from Mind - its a transcendental, mental monism.

Originally posted by Student X
Now, chemistry is a known. We no longer project into it. Space is the unknown now. We have projected our psyche and its archetypal patterns and contents out into space and it bounces back in the form of aliens.

Great.

Now go find some evidence.