Will todays kids ever know a Natural Blue Sky? (Chemtrails)

Probably the best known more recent study was that carried out by Minnis etal after 9/11. Though new papers are published every year. My personal experience is that even when skies appear clear, there is still a distinct high level haze on the horizon (about pollution levels) which is down to aircraft - this became apparent after it disappeared last year when all air flights were cancelled by the Icelandic volcano eruption.

reply to post by Essan


Yes I´m aware of the post 911 study, and for me the difference was very noticable after the Iceland eruption.

To me it seems a geo engineering program is going on in some places, be it by ``chemtrails``, or `´normal`´ contrailclouds.

I used to be naive enough to consider the possibility of chemtrails. However, after looking into the science behind contrails, I now understand that those hundreds of thousands of trails across the sky are nothing other than contrails. I contacted an expert in aerodynamics and he helped me compile a blog titled: "Why Contrails are not Chemtrails" www.blissful-wisdom.com...

In that blog is discussed:
-the naturally high level of aluminum within soil....7.1% everywhere
-how jetplane exhaust produces matter and particulates and more water vapor ....which combine to form contrails in the -50 degree atmosphere.....
-the atmosphere is filled with millions of tons of invisible water vapor....even on a clear day
-throw a cup of boiling water off an Artic veranda in -40 degree temperature, and you'll get a 'trail' of crystallized mist...just like a contrail
-the UN convention banned geoengineering....it never mentioned 'chemtrails' because contrails are not chemtrails.
-all the various patents for aerial spray equipment are relevant to understanding skywriting, fuel dumping, fire fighting retardant, cloud seeding, crop spraying of pesticides/herbicides, oil slick fighting, and smoke machines. All that technology would involve 'patents'.
-a 50 Km by 1km contrail would take 5,000 metric tonnes of water vapor (twice the weight of a fully loaded jet cargo plane) If same size of trail were made up of aluminum oxide, as chemtrail believers state, then that would entail 20,000 tonnes of material (equal to eight times the weight of a fully loaded jet cargo plane)
Enough said.

A short video explaining Contrails is here: www.youtube.com...

reply to post by deeperpolitics

-throw a cup of boiling water off an Artic veranda in -40 degree temperature, and you'll get a 'trail' of crystallized mist...just like a contrail

You are incorrect and have been fooled by the typical propaganda that is being pushed from every channel of this cover up conspiracy. I don't know how old you are or if you live in an area that chemtrail activity is occurring. But if you are old enough to remember what planes used to leave behind them "normal contrails" You should remember that no one saw the type of contrail we see today.

They never used to persist the way they do now. They might of lasted 20 minutes or an hour tops very rarely. But they still never used to spread out into clouds that cover the sky and cause a white haze. You should really try to investigate it more. REALLY investigate it. Don't just take my word or the word of a "persistent contrail" con man. If you already learned the science then you should learn the history of that science. History tells us that these are indeed CHEMTRAILS.

-throw a cup of boiling water off an Artic veranda in -40 degree temperature, and you'll get a 'trail' of crystallized mist...just like a contrail

reply to post by deeperpolitics


So planes are spewing out boiling water?

This example is moot.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by Aslpride
Here's picture showing one plane with contrail and other plane with chemtrail.

This is where I call BS. This image is deliberately peddling disinformation. You can see the plane in the first contrail. The second CONtrail appears to be at a different altitude, and the plane is NOT visible, meaning that contrail has already spread out more than the first

In other words, they are BOTH contrails and they are NOT comparable in the cropped image they are presented in.

Yes both can be called 'contrails' but the first contrail appears to be quickly disapating as one should expect. The second appears to have a completely different consistancy not based simply on that it has spread out more. The most logical reason for this, and this is seen regularly, I have personally witnessed it many many times, is that it is the chemical exhaust makeup of the second plane that has different characteristics, rather than the altitude difference of the planes casuing their different plumes.. What I can't understand is why this consideration is always the LAST possibility of those so called 'bunkies', when I would think rather this would be the first place to look for any open minded objective researcher. It's as if they'll look anywhere but there.

Hey, just noticed this thread was put in the HOAX section.

Wth, is this thread a deliberate attempt to fool people with disinformation?

It seems unprovable that it is, there is no way of telling that the info in the
OP is untrue, and especially no way to prove it is deliberate disinformation.

So I guess it all boils down to the opinion of a mod, a mod thinks this is a HOAX, so it is a HOAX.

What a disgrace.

reply to post by UrgentInsurgent


No, it's just because it's a well.... Hoax, do some research on how Jets fly, learn a little something before you go off and say something is a conspiracy just because you have no knowledge of how the "conspiracy" actually works.

reply to post by Nobama


There is no way to prove that what people are seeing in the skies is not the result of an abnormal program going on.

You may feel that it is completely normal, but that doesn´t make the OP a hoax.

It is also unproven that the OP is a deliberate attempt at disinformation. It is also not true that a significant majority feel that the subject matter is fraudulent material.

You FEEL it is a hoax, and so does a mod, apparently, that doesn´t prove it´s a hoax.

reply to post by UrgentInsurgent


I think the only reason this might have been put in the "hoax" section is because of the way that the title is worded. If he had made a more carefully worded title it would have been less likely to have been moved and called a hoax. I agree that the content of the op is NOT a hoax. But the sky will still always be as natural as it can be, even if it is hazy, polluted and full of jet exhaust and who knows what else.

The lack of any serious and thorough study, that is open and available to the public, into the chemical make up of the man made cirrus clouds created by modern jet contrails that persist is a red flag. This has been known to have serious effects and many studies have been done. But not one of those recent studies include a detailed breakdown of those clouds seems ridiculous. Not even NASA reports (who you would think might conduct the most accurate and thorough study) leaves those details out of public reports.

Why would the most thorough and advanced technological organization be so incompetent when it comes to a study of clouds? Why would they leave all those important details about the chemical structure of those man made cirrus clouds out of its study? Obviously there is something that they don't want us to know. After 50 years of cloud studies, contrail studies, environmental impact studies, air quality studies and so on. Why don't we have the data for what's in those damn clouds. Not the old data from old planes with old fuel. New data from the new planes who are using the new fuel. Why ?

I think the only reason this might have been put in the "hoax" section is because of the way that the title is worded. If he had made a more carefully worded title it would have been less likely to have been moved and called a hoax. I agree that the content of the op is NOT a hoax. But the sky will still always be as natural as it can be, even if it is hazy, polluted and full of jet exhaust and who knows what else.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


I don´t think the title would warrant that. It is a question, not a statement, and in many places, you hardly ever see a natural blue sky, since there almost always are contrailclouds in the sky, wich are not natural in any way or form, chemtrails or not.

I agree with the rest that you said. It sometimes seems that the more extreme chemtrial theories are put out there to discredit the fact that something is going on in our skies.

You have to learn about the mentality of the people behind these things if you are ever going to uncover the truth. The NWO and the Old World Order are one and the same. Rich bankers who's greed and quest for power is unbelievable. OPEN YOUR EYES.......WAKE UP..........
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Xianist says 12/15/2008:

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reply to post by UrgentInsurgent


I agree the title shouldn't have warranted this thread being moved to the hoax section. Maybe they moved it because it hit on points that are too close to the truth and touched a nerve.

Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent
Hey, just noticed this thread was put in the HOAX section.

Wth, is this thread a deliberate attempt to fool people with disinformation?

It seems unprovable that it is, there is no way of telling that the info in the
OP is untrue, and especially no way to prove it is deliberate disinformation.

So I guess it all boils down to the opinion of a mod, a mod thinks this is a HOAX, so it is a HOAX.

What a disgrace.

Wow, it does APPEAR to me IMO that perhaps someone here at ATS has their own personal agenda for whatever reasons, to place this thread in the hoax section IS a disgrace, while it allows all sorts of other equally or even more so, threads discussing anomolous topics to be discusssed under less liabelous headings. This thread asks a valid question, and as 'global dimming' has been discussed even in many MS circles, and jet pollution from whatever source and forwhatever reasons (some call them chemtrails) can and has been shown to cover skies horizon to horizon and block out the sun, I have to think the decision to call this a hoax is less than a valid one.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by UrgentInsurgent

 

I agree the title shouldn't have warranted this thread being moved to the hoax section. Maybe they moved it because it hit on points that are too close to the truth and touched a nerve.

I think possibly your right, it looked like it was moved about the time I posted my comments on the difference people observed in the posted picture between two trails appearing almost right next to each other one quickly disapating and the other a very dirty looking thick lingering trail. I made the point (touched a nerve?) that it appeared unlikely that usual reason given cited by 'bunkies', of only a difference in altitude, rather than a difference in the composition of what was actually coming out of the plane would IMO be a much more likely area to focus on explaining the difference. Someone possibly doesn't want the conversation to go in that direction for whatever reason. Could it be that is an area that someone is afraid of, because to look there might make someone 'uncomfortable' for whatever reason??? hmmmm...

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

I agree the title shouldn't have warranted this thread being moved to the hoax section. Maybe they moved it because it hit on points that are too close to the truth and touched a nerve.

Perhaps it was moved to the [HOAX] section because the source is unreliable... and the moderators are starting to get fed up with this topic.

reply to post by DJW001


How is the source any more 'unreliable' than most any of the other sources I see routinely used here? Is someone asserting the footage is in fact 'fake' if so what do they base that on? Proof? And to say a 'moderator' is 'getting tired' of the topic, they don't seem to get tired of talking people talking about aliens, or planet x or wahtever, I have to feel it's more of a case of someone not wanting to discuss this in a rational logical manner. Why?

reply to post by DJW001


I always assumed it was moved to the Hoax forum becase the premise is very clearly wrong - there are indeed many days of natural blue skies in all parts of the world, even places like Britain with some of the most congested air space in the world.

I think clearer skies are coming. I think the "coalition" whom have been bringing us chemtrails/aka geoengineering for whatever reason is falling apart.
Just a gut feeling.
I see rifts in global "leadership" coming, and clearer skies with the chance of radioactive fallout increasing.

Originally posted by Essan
reply to post by DJW001

 

I always assumed it was moved to the Hoax forum becase the premise is very clearly wrong - there are indeed many days of natural blue skies in all parts of the world, even places like Britain with some of the most congested air space in the world.

No offense but IMO that seems a pretty lame excuse, and it took 14 pages to come to the idea the title is 'wrong'??? I'm a bit sceptical, why not just reword the title if that seems to so bother some moderator. I think what the title question 'implies' IS a very good one, with the MS focusing on 'global dimming' and the blocking out of huge parts of the earths skies from 'jet pollution' no matter from what source or why, it's rational to think at some point this 'pollution' may get so bad that a truly blue sky may be an endangered species of sorts. It's already happening where I live, most all of the clouds I see now (with few days of exceptions) are products of 'plane exhaust' and I live 125 miles from any major airport, it has so screwed up the 'natural' skies that I'm not sure my children were even able to observe enough 'natural sky' days to even know what natural is anymore.

reply to post by Tecumte


No offense taken - I'm just saying why I assumed it was moved to Hoax. I may be wrong. I guess you could always ask a Mod to find out for you?

As the thread has continued regardless, I'm not sure makes much difference really.