Ronald Reagan: "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost."

reply to post by queenofsheba


So your parents made the choice to drink and argue is what youre saying?

Gotcha.

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne


Have another one of what? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Yes, I'm probably biased when it comes to him and mostly likely highly influenced by my parents. Obviously, they had zero coping skills. Have a great day!

reply to post by queenofsheba


Have another drink. Have another helping of my unique wit. Have another knuckle sammich.

The choices are endless

Originally posted by HaveAnotherOne
There is no right to bargain for more of the taxpayers money.

Not a single freedom has been lost.

You whine about the Fox news bots, yet where are you getting your info from? Maddow? Moore?

Lets try dealing in facts here. No liberty was taken away.

The range of your paradigm was not curtailed, it does not concern you, so you don't care... This is how
tyrants pick off subjects, one by one, Saddam, Hitler and Stalin all neutered unions because unions threatened their consolidation of power and opinion. This is simply a stop on the road in that direction, except we are fighting a bodiless, faceless oligarchy of corporate interests. You can't vote em out, you cannot shoot them, they are immortal and they will never stop. I think we are going to create a situation where we will be stuck in a contractual hell, no way out, no recourse, nothing...

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne


Nice. Hmmm..

I don't quite know why people insist on their own ignorance that this is an "anti-union" measure. It's not. It's an anti collective bargaining rights measure. Unions and collective bargaining are not mutually inclusive. One does not have to join the mob-ridden AFL-CIO to organize workers to negotiate for better treatment and working conditions.

Wanna shut down the Unions? Fine. I'm all for it. Most of 'em are mafia scumbags anyway and should be locked up for racketeering. But if you start taking away workers rights to band together and stand up to a boss who is destructively exploiting their labor solely for the purposes of personal profit then you become an enemy of Freedom and an ally to modern day robber-barons.

This isn't a Union issue it's a workers rights issue. To say that workers have no rights is also to say that it is OK to employ someone for 15 hours a day and pay them $5.00 for it. I don't know of any of you liberal "so-called neocons " that would stand for that treatment if you yourself were subjected to it. You would immediately be raging from your fascist pulpits about the corporations waging war on the middle class.

I wish you liberals would stop calling yourselves conservatives, admit that you effed up in the 50's and 60's and back away and let someone else fix the problems that you created.

You think I'm kidding or misinformed about your brand of liberal "conservatism?" Study the history of Irving Kristol, his son William Kristol and the development of the neoconservative movement in the US from 1965 to 2001.

reply to post by Janky Red


The same could be said about the influence religion has on politics.

When will we see that kicked to the curb where it rightly belongs?

reply to post by Control


I don't quite know why people insist on their own ignorance that this is an "anti-union" measure. It's not. It's an anti collective bargaining rights measure. Unions and collective bargaining are not mutually inclusive. One does not have to join the mob-ridden AFL-CIO to organize workers to negotiate for better treatment and working conditions.

Yikes, wow really? So when my husband goes off to work in the power plants where he risks his health with the other Boilermakers (Local 647) they should have no rights to safety conditions? Those guys are exposed to all sorts of nastiness like asbestos, ash, the risk of mesothelioma, etc. They used to work without respirators and many of then died young so you could have power/electricity. If not for the unions, their safety standards would never have been implemented. These guys work their collective behinds off. Sometimes 6 days or 7 days of 12 hours and you think they shouldn't be well compensated. Oh, I get it, we should just let rat outfits come in and do their work for cheap labor. These guys have four years of an apprenticeship program to get to be Journeymen. But any JoBlow off the street could come in and work in the boiler. Why don't we hire immigrants, they're cheap labor. Screw the working middle class America; yeah let's do that. Don't forget that the unions were the ones that instituted the 40 hr work week, but maybe we should all bust our butts for peanuts. You can.

reply to post by beezzer


Or you could actually try and speak the truth - how is it possible that you have been so completely BRAINWASHED that you have forgotten why there is financialy crisis ? How is it possible that the unions have ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS when we ALL KNOW WHO DID IT ?

Who is it possible that you can even think for a second we are that stupid to forget the real reason so quickly - you embarrass yourself.

reply to post by queenofsheba


Unions once had a time and place. Unfortunately for them, that time has come and gone.

What other function do unions have now other than being the fundraising strongarm of the democratic party?

reply to post by mc_squared


Reagan got elected with help from the Unions.

He pandered to them.

The clip you have here was Reagan the Candidate...not Reagan the POTUS.

Reagan the candidate sought and recieved endorsements from unions...including the Air Traffic Controllers Union who wanted to work shorter shifts/reduce stress etc.

In August of 1981 ...after he was elected...Reagan fired 11,000 members of the Air Traffic Controllers union and did it in an unusally brutal way. Many actually went to jail since it was illegal for them to strike...those fired were stripped of the pensions that they had paid into. People lost thier homes, thier savings...it was brutal.

Reagan...Just strange how he is worshipped by conservatives...Revisionist history at its best.

reply to post by queenofsheba


Wow. You totally ....DIDN'T.... read my post at all and responded with complete and total reactionary ignorance. READ WHAT I WROTE before trying to respond and you will see that I am ABSOLUTELY IN FAVOR OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING RIGHTS. Damn!

Again, I will say...this bill isn't an attack on unions. It is an attack on workers rights to collectively bargain for better treatment and working conditions.

I don't mean to sound snippity towards you queenofsheba but you really should pay closer attention because you may just be taking a crap on one of your allies.

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne


What you're advocating for is working for less than what you're worth. What you're advocating is for the demise of the American middle class. I don't want to be like you; I want to be compensated for my work that is economically sustainable. I realize that I'm lucky to be a stay-at-home mom in this day and age because my husband's income can take care of his family. I realize that our situation is going to go the way of the dinosaur. My kids are unique in that they have mom at home when they get home from school. Do you realize how important that is to kids? How many of their friends can say mom is home when I get home from school? Few, I'm sure. Everyone makes the big complaint of how American kids are lacking in this or that...maybe because both parents are working for minimum wage and quite possibly are working two jobs. Of course the kids get shortchanged. What is wrong with getting health benefits and retirement for the hard work you do? If we all go rat, then we accept being less. Good-bye working class America. I see the writing on the wall and I don't like what I'm reading. Because we make a decent livable income you're jealous because you don't? Where is the unity for fellow Americans doing good? It's people like you that make me live little, lay low so to speak. We all work hard and some of us have chosen occupations that have unions, and for good reason but I'm sure the current climate will destroy the working class. Very sad.

Originally posted by queenofsheba
reply to post by HaveAnotherOne

 

What you're advocating for is working for less than what you're worth. What you're advocating is for the demise of the American middle class. I don't want to be like you; I want to be compensated for my work that is economically sustainable. I realize that I'm lucky to be a stay-at-home mom in this day and age because my husband's income can take care of his family. I realize that our situation is going to go the way of the dinosaur. My kids are unique in that they have mom at home when they get home from school. Do you realize how important that is to kids? How many of their friends can say mom is home when I get home from school? Few, I'm sure. Everyone makes the big complaint of how American kids are lacking in this or that...maybe because both parents are working for minimum wage and quite possibly are working two jobs. Of course the kids get shortchanged. What is wrong with getting health benefits and retirement for the hard work you do? If we all go rat, then we accept being less. Good-bye working class America. I see the writing on the wall and I don't like what I'm reading. Because we make a decent livable income you're jealous because you don't? Where is the unity for fellow Americans doing good? It's people like you that make me live little, lay low so to speak. We all work hard and some of us have chosen occupations that have unions, and for good reason but I'm sure the current climate will destroy the working class. Very sad.

Uh no. I am advocating getting rid of public employee unions whose only goal is to spend more taxpayer money.

My wife stays at home as well, as I do more than enough for us to remain comfortable. Want health benefits and a retirement package? Then EARN it. Provide for your own retirement. Saving is not hard.

There is no right to a retirement package, a healthcare package, or any other benefit. The entitlement mentality put forth by union jackasses is simply laughable.

Construction unions are just as bad. Typically filled with barely educated blue collar degenerates, they are simply pawns in the power game unions play for politics.

reply to post by Control


Wanna shut down the Unions? Fine. I'm all for it. Most of 'em are mafia scumbags anyway and should be locked up for racketeering. But if you start taking away workers rights to band together and stand up to a boss who is destructively exploiting their labor solely for the purposes of personal profit then you become an enemy of Freedom and an ally to modern day robber-barons

I think the part where you said, "Fine." "I'm all for it." "Most of 'em are mafia scumbags anyway..." got me feeling like the union working class were being attacked. And you know what? They are. I did read your whole post and guess I was reactionary but in this climate we're in today it's a little scary to think our standard of living is being attacked. And it's not like I lead a grand lifestyle or anything, my house is average; nothing special. I see so many people losing their homes all the time and I think how lucky we are. I apologize to you for my knee-jerk reaction but this is the climate we're in, We are not doing anything wrong, just making an honest living and it does feel like it's under attack and quite frankly, that worries me.

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne


Uh no. I am advocating getting rid of public employee unions whose only goal is to spend more taxpayer money.

My wife stays at home as well, as I do more than enough for us to remain comfortable. Want health benefits and a retirement package? Then EARN it. Provide for your own retirement. Saving is not hard.

My husband earns his health and retirement package; he works very, very hard for it. You go into a boiler and tell me how you think you shouldn't get health benefits.

Originally posted by queenofsheba
reply to post by HaveAnotherOne

 

Uh no. I am advocating getting rid of public employee unions whose only goal is to spend more taxpayer money.

My wife stays at home as well, as I do more than enough for us to remain comfortable. Want health benefits and a retirement package? Then EARN it. Provide for your own retirement. Saving is not hard.

My husband earns his health and retirement package; he works very, very hard for it. You go into a boiler and tell me how you think you shouldn't get health benefits.

Why don't you take the time to educate yourself just a LITTLE BIT - spouting and ranting about things when you are so plainly, clearly and obviously wrong to everyone on this board makes you look really, really, really stupid.

Take the time, a couple of minutes to jsut watch this video - thats all - it is of a REPUBLICAN and explains WHY there is UNION busting going on - it has absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH UNIONS costing too much money - none -

reply to post by queenofsheba


No thanks. I made it a point in life to get educated so I wouldnt have to go into a boiler. Working with your head is so much easier than working with your back and in miserable conditions.

reply to post by queenofsheba


Apology accepted and you're absolutely right. The common working person who is just trying to make an honest living so they can raise their families is under brutal and relentless attack by corporate whoremongers who want nothing more than to reinstate institutionalized slavery. There's even a facacta bill being proposed by Tea Party supporters to remove the child labor laws because they are "unconstitutional." Yeah. Kill collective bargaining rights, remove minimum wage requirements, and reinstate child labor. Sounds like going back to Victorian England if you ask me. I may be a steam-punk but I have no romanticized historical attitude towards the horrors of the Victorian era.

These people are nothing more than the American Fascist Party attempting to gain control and turn over the resources of the once-greatest Nation in the world over to greedy oligarchs so they can make sure that it is never again a desirable place to live. Hell on Earth everywhere outside their luxurious heavily guarded gated communities

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne


There is no right to a retirement package, a healthcare package, or any other benefit. The entitlement mentality put forth by union jackasses is simply laughable.

Construction unions are just as bad. Typically filled with barely educated blue collar degenerates, they are simply pawns in the power game unions play for politics.

There is a right to a retirement package and health benefits when it comes out of your paycheck. You think healthcare is free? The entitlement mentality you talk about shouldn't apply to people who go out and work and make a living. How is that being entitled? It's cool that your wife can be at home, how many of your friends' wives do the same? Probably not a whole heck of a lot.