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Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Sorry, but I don�t think you understood the reasoning. An all powerful and all good god would not be able to create a race that had the opportunity to perpetrate any evil, only good.
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Well I tend to disagree with the quote seeing as both of my grandfathers fought in WWII for the British, one of them is Christian but the other was an Atheist and seeing as he was a combat solider can only assume he was in a foxhole at some point...
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
For some people it is easy to accept such an offer on the basis that it 'sounds' good. Some people prefer to understand something and know that it is truth before they follow.
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
The reason I jumped to that conclusion is that Logician states there are only two ways in the bible, that of God or that of Satan.
Seeing as I don�t believe in God or Satan I am I to believe I fall under a third category that does not exist in Christian literature?
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
If God gave me free will he would have not stated in his bible that I had no choice, and I quote "...Thou who sayeth there is no God hath committed the ultimate sin." He also would have provided undeniable evidence that he exists so that I would not have to question.
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Also I like to think that I am a good person even if I am not a Christian, I don�t lie or hurt people, I am kind and will go out of my way to make sure I don�t hurt peoples feelings. This is how I would want my children to be should I ever have any.
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Even though I am an Atheist I would not push that on my children, in fact I would encourage them to read about as many religions and choices as possible, and have them choose what makes them happy.
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
So if anyone who believes what a certain Christian priest says he heard would be relying totally on 'faith' whether it be true or false? (Not an argument, just trying to understand the logic)
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
What I would say to this is that you should be able to tell the difference between real sound waves and voices of your mind. The reason you know that your mother would be talking to you is that you can you hear the familiar sound coming from an external source, and would have a previous image in which to associate the voice to. If you have never seen a person physically speak how could you possibly associate a certain voice tone to that person?
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
To whom would I direct my questions, a fellow human?
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Someone who only has answers that were in turn fed to them at some point?
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Also tell me how I would ask questions to your god? Speaking aloud or silent with no evidence that anyone or anything is listening could not logically offer me answers.
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
I always used to pray when I was a child before I went to sleep, nothing ever came of it, and no answers were forthcoming.
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Should I ask the bible?
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
From which I can read 'answers' but ask no counter-questions?
Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Anyway I have rambled on long enough once again thanks for replying.
If God gave me free will he would have not stated in his bible that I had no choice, and I quote "...Thou who sayeth there is no God hath committed the ultimate sin."
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
There are a LOT of people out there who think they know EXACTLY what Judeo-Christianity/Protestant Christianity or Catholicism is 100% for Sure - the sad fact is that Most people are Misguided & Delusional. Over the many Years there has been a LOT of Manipulation & Distortion of the Faith for Various Reasons - Namely Politics. Not even Priests & Scholars know for sure.
What I an personally waiting for is a MODERN ENGLISH TRANSLATION of the Both the Greek Septuagint & the Original Greek New Testament - by Unbiased Scholarly Experts!!!
[edit on 26-10-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]
Originally posted by Hailthekingoflights
Amadeus If Jesus isn't real and/or wasn't a part of God's plan wouldn't Israel still have to make offerings to the LORD if Jesus wasn't the ultimate sacrifice. why do you think that God allowed jerusalem to be destroyed by Titus and the Holy of holies to be desecrated by emporer vespasian right after the fact that he[Jesus] was ressurected? And isn't that documented by Josephus? I mean I know that if the Spirit of Elohim still occupied the temple he[vespasian] would have been destroyed on the spot I'm not trying to argue or debate with you, I just wanted to know if you calculated that into your theory about Jesus. And what you said about Jesus being disqualified[of being the moshiach] because of his death, where did you get that from, I would like to read it.
Originally posted by Logician
If God gave me free will he would have not stated in his bible that I had no choice, and I quote "...Thou who sayeth there is no God hath committed the ultimate sin."
How does an affirmation of a truth ( or even an untruth for that matter) negate free will? In other words, if I declare 1+1 is 2 how does that negate your free will? ( Even if I said, 1+1 is 3, how does that negate your free will?)
You are free to accept or reject the thesis.
[edit on 15-12-2004 by Logician]
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
That's what annoys me most with you peeps...
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
with bible-folds for your eyes,
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
your use of twisted logic
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
that is build on premises of beliefs and not facts.
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
Free will that is less than free will is not free will. Or if you prefer: >1 IS NOT 1.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
That's what annoys me most with you peeps...
You peeps? What's that supposed to mean? I feel a hasty generalization coming on...
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
with bible-folds for your eyes,
LOL Okay, I don't care who you are, that there is funny.
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
your use of twisted logic
subjective accusation.
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
that is build on premises of beliefs and not facts.
So? Belief = "a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing" Merriam Webster. I'm fairly certain that you have 'beliefs' as well, just not the same ones. We can go through the proof by Q & A if you like.
How can you have free will that is less than free will?
It looks to me like Logician is saying despite what a person believes, the truth remains the same.
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
Illogical statements claiming to be logical qualifies as "twisted logic" in my book and in some other books as well
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
Logic is all about premises. You can prove anything if everyone agrees on whatever premises.
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
But you can't use logic to prove your point if your logic is built upon premises that are not generally accepted but subject of dispute.
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
Therefore you can not use the word of any deity as a premises to reach a logical conclusion.
How can you have free will that is less than free will?
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
Errm... yeah... that was exactly what I was wondering...
It looks to me like Logician is saying despite what a person believes, the truth remains the same.
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
There is a problem here though. We have free will to believe anything except that God doesn't exist. Ok, so obviously we are capable of thinking and saying that
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
, but we're going to heck for it.
Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
I'm sorry, but if I were to belive in an omnipotent God I can't see him acting out like a hurt child ("buhuhuuu, they don't belive in me, I'm gonna send them all to Heck!". I would belive in a God that rewarded human beings for their empathy, their goodness and kindness of heart, their generosity, their strife to live a rise to their full potential in this abyss of entropy - and not judging them for which book/scripture they believe in, which prophet or preacher or whatever. Our beliefs are strongly connected to which culture and what time in history we are born. If there is a God then he would understand every human being fully and utterly, because then we would be a part of him. And he wouldn't just let one lousy game (lifetime) decide who would go to the heavenly kickoffs. No, he would start a whole series of games (lifetimes) where everyone could have a shot at the title, so that your lifespan, your cultural upbringing and your finacial situation wouldn't decide the outcome of the tournament, but just influence the present game.
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
I have always been struck by the Polar Contradiction of some of Jesus' Sayings in the Gospel! For Example: a) "I come to bring Fire & Sword" (i.e. a WAR Messiah)
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
vs. B) "Love one another - Turn the other check"
(i.e. Forgiveness, Healing & so on)! Could there have been Two similar looking Messiahs wandering around preaching Different messages @ the Same Time (both appearing as & identified as "Jesus" - Brothers?)
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
- or was this stuff added to the Bible later by Zealous Jewish "Evangelists"!!!
Originally posted by pantheria
The father of Jesus or should I say at least one of the twins that Mary had that fatefull night was a roman centurian his name was "Tiberius Julius Abdes Panthera" He forced his attentions on the young women while she was betrothed to Joseph at the time he was stationed at King Herods palace, Mary who was King Herods great grand-daughter may have been attacked while visiting her grandfather. The twins were seperated one raised by highly religious sect called the Essene his brothers name was Thomas .
The acts of Thomas records an incident where Jesus appears to a young man who saw Jesus in the likeness of the apostle Judas Thomas, Jesus then called:"I am not Judas the twin who is also Thomas, I am his brother.
This statement by itself was enough to cause the Nicean council to prohibit the inclusion of this apostles work in the bible.
Originally posted by Noob0832
The Christian stories tend to cut and paste details from many old religions, which was common in forgeries that were rampant during the time of the Bible's compilation by the papacy.