Judaic Heresy.

It should be asked "why did Christ not tell the world that the Jewish religion was about to be superceded by the New Covenant?"

Christ professed himself a Jew. He never at any stage repudiated Judaism. It seems odd that he never stated with crystal clarity that the special status of Jews as the Chosen People was coming to an end and that, upon his death, Jews and Gentiles would be equal in status if they accepted him as their Saviour. Gentiles had never obeyed the Law of Moses and had openly scorned the religious practices of the Jews, yet were now about to be embraced as equals. You would think Christ would have spent a great deal of time explaining that. But it was left to Saul of Tarsus - St Paul - to make it clear that Christianity was open to everyone rather than just the Jews, and that Jewish Law did not have to be obeyed.

Before his death, shouldn't Christ have announced that the Jewish religion was about to be superseded? It seems an extraordinary omission. The Jews are no longer the Chosen People, according to Christianity - Christians are. So what are the Jews now? Refuseniks? Insane? The damned? Evil? The children of Satan? The Unchosen Ones?

The Old Law was fulfilled in Christ. So why does Judaism still exist? Few of the original Chosen People embraced the new religion of Christianity. How remarkable that God's Chosen People, almost in their entirety, rejected Christ/God. The people of the Old Testament became heretics when Christ died, wilfully refusing to accept the New Testament. What kind of God is it who loses the devotion of practically every member of the people he had chosen? Anti-Semitism was inevitable. The Jews were an eternal reminder to Christians that the Jews didn't believe in Jesus Christ, and that the Christians were therefore, in the minds of the Jews, in error and worshipping a false God.

perhaps that was to be decided depending on whether or not they killed Jesus.
If they had let him live, maybe none of the crap that has been and still is happening would not have been done, cause Jesus would personally go to peoples cribs and smite your ass if were not of Him (not of Him in a bad way, rape, murder, etc., small things will come with just "hey bro, thats not cool, you should be sorry. Love ya man, peace(and thats just cause Jesus is cool like that)).

PS, the herb is a great thing

reply to post by SunTzu22
I wrote this for a World Religions class.....Needless to say it sparks debates. thought it fit in well with the OPS topic, after all we are questioning and constantly delving into this discussion without ever really giving it a face.

Why Jesus May have been Satan....
Okay sacrilegious., maybe, but hear me, er rather read me out first.

Here's the way it works.....Satan is the angel of Light music and eventually the father of lies and all sin....you see Satan was a son of god, in the sense that we all are, because as christian theology goes he created everything. Well in the Bible there are a few things that don't jive ( yeah everyone's heard it Contradiction) but there are key things. At a certain point Jesus says that If you had faith the size of a mustard seed you can tell a tree to uproot itself and plant itself in the ocean and it shall thrive....Sounds a bit like Magic doesn't it??
He never says faith in him or his father, Just FAITH alone would do it, Meaning that faith is the single most powerful thing any of us can cultivate.
Now Jesus being Satan, If faith is the most powerful weapon that a human can muster then it would be in Satan's favor to fracture faith to the point no one would ever know who was right and therefore no real faith could ever foster.....What is the best way to Lie?? intermix truth and fiction, be complete in what you are trying to knit together so it looks plausible.....In the Hebrew Text it says that "God will never take the flesh of man" , However Jesus was a direct violation of that old promise.....God also would never call himself god or separate himself into parts...I am the One he said in older scriptures.
Satan was a son of god...not a lie.....God would never take the flesh form of man, Satan would...Jesus preached no other way but through him....a violation of old law being nothing worshipped higher than God himself. the appearance of Jesus did more to fracture faith and start wars than any other person in history....don't get me wrong the core values, be a good person, love one another treat everyone as family, that is all good but also in every other religion in the world, so why has Christianity spawned so much bloodshed over centuries and the things people have done in Jesus name is sickening, Last but not least in Genesis it says after the war in heaven Satan was thrown out and down to earth and this world made his, How can you trust any religion that would come out of a place like that???? Faith is all it takes, Faith to be a good person, faith in each other, faith that there is something greater than us and wants us to be better in ourselves and each other. Just remember its only a theory. Satan has gone back to the fifth lvl of hell ( he likes it there because of it's easy access to the other 8 levels) he resides in the white house, cleaning toilets and working his wooden dummy

reply to post by CaDreamer


Very clear eyed interpretaiton. Thanks and a Star for you.

Originally posted by SunTzu22
It should be asked "why did Christ not tell the world that the Jewish religion was about to be superceded by the New Covenant?"

This is the notion of Christian Supersessionalism and it's not a universally held belief. The Catholic Church, in fact, redacted its supersessionalist views in the Vatican II Council, which continues to cause confusion and complaints to this day (see here).

But even that is seemingly a matter of semantics -- whether Christians because God's "chosen people" in lieu of the Jews, who reject Christ, or whether it's a matter of Covenant law. Those who believe that God keeps his promises will tend to support that the New Covenant doesn't supersede the Original one, it supplements it, so the Law and its promise is still there for Jews who follow it. That is my personal belief.

(As an aside, using the "ex" tag, as you have, indicates that you are quoting an off-site source, and you need to annotate that for its context. If you can add the source for the text you've cited, its context can be better understood by those, like me, who wish to see more.)

Of course I should have posted the link. My apologies. Its just that my links seem to never actually link to the site desired.

It would please me greatly for you to view the text in its full context. So please copy/paste the url if the link does not work.

www.armageddonconspiracy.co.uk

reply to post by SunTzu22


Well, that gets me closer, but I would guess that your text is coming from one of the voluminous links over on the left side of the page. Which one can I start with? I do have to say that, on the front page, this:

We are the Illuminati. We are the messengers of the True God. Our sacred mission is to bring humanity into full union with the True God

is a little off-putting, because the Illuminati would never put up a public website claiming "we are the Illuminati", no matter what their message was.

A quick look at the website's "whois" record reveals it to be owned by one Mike Hockney, who appears to be selling works of fiction with the Illuminati theme. So one is left assuming that these are "posers" at best, or simple marketing of someone's books, but we can proceed with that in mind, as your original point, supersessionism, is a valid one.

(I'm not sure what is breaking with your link, but it looks like you might be putting something into the first of the two windows that comes up when you click the ATS "Link" button -- just leave that one blank and paste your link into the second window, or paste the link into both windows.)

reply to post by SunTzu22


Don't put www in front of armageddon conspiracy when you link it.

reply to post by adjensen


Mike Hockney is a pseudonym. Try reading past the few articles on the given site and see if they are a "poser".

Originally posted by Lateralussicksicksick
Mike Hockney is a pseudonym. Try reading past the few articles on the given site and see if they are a "poser".

It doesn't really matter if it's someone's real name or not. Just apply Occam's Razor -- which is more likely, the "story" that the secretive group is making a declaration of truth in this manner, or some guy wrote some books with Illuminati theme and is using the web site to promote them?

Unless you've a different Illuminati in mind than the rest of the world has, the credibility of "Mike Hockney" is zilch. There were a couple of threads here on ATS in 2008, and it was pointed out that it points back to this web site: www.meritocracy.org.uk... which promotes a view that is pretty much the opposite of the Illuminati.

reply to post by adjensen


Well it seems that you haven't realized why they have made the website.

You have basically answered your own question in your response to me, but if you still haven't figured that out I'll let you think for yourself. You have answered your own question...

EDIT: And look it's been 3 years since the site has been mentioned here at ATS yet a lot of folks still don't know what it is about or haven't even bothered reading the site. Well that's ok if they haven't read the site what's worse is they try and discredit it without even reading.

How sad...

Originally posted by Lateralussicksicksick
reply to post by adjensen

 

Well it seems that you haven't realized why they have made the website.

Well enlighten me, then. I'm not going to read through massive amounts of text on two different websites to determine whether there is any value in my reading through massive amounts of text on two different websites.

I'm not discrediting it (remember, this thread is about Christian supersessionalism, not the Illuminati) I'm just saying that claiming that "We are the Illuminati" when you are obviously not is hardly a way to encourage me to read your massive amounts of text.

Life is too short to be consumed by reading the works of every nut who has an idea of how to run the world. Enlighten us with the reason that this particular nut has it right.

Originally posted by adjensen
Well enlighten me, then. I'm not going to read through massive amounts of text on two different websites to determine whether there is any value in my reading through massive amounts of text on two different websites.

Well if that's your reason to not read the site then I'm sure you would be of no use.

I'm not discrediting it (remember, this thread is about Christian supersessionalism, not the Illuminati) I'm just saying that claiming that "We are the Illuminati" when you are obviously not is hardly a way to encourage me to read your massive amounts of text.

Obviously not? How did you know without reading the contents of the given website? How did you know that they are not? Do you have a magic to determine whether a person is real or not? Did you use this to determine what the site is? Or are you just biased in your opinion because of what you have read about the website according to some "nut" here at ATS?

Life is too short to be consumed by reading the works of every nut who has an idea of how to run the world. Enlighten us with the reason that this particular nut has it right.

Yes life is too short, if you honestly think that "life is too short" then why are you here at ATS wasting your time?

The message is extremely simple and it does not need a lot of your precious time to understand. If you don't have the time to read it then leave it alone and try don't try to point out its flaws without prior knowledge, it's called PREJUDICE. Do you honestly think that someone would spoon-fed you all the answers?

Every person born into this world should know that everything is open to them if they are talented and hard working enough to achieve it.

If you have the time to be here on ATS and post thousands of replies but you can't be bothered to read some website then I'm pretty sure that you would not understand it.

Goodbye.

I see no point in responding to you any further; KTHXBAI.

Originally posted by Lateralussicksicksick

I'm not discrediting it (remember, this thread is about Christian supersessionalism, not the Illuminati) I'm just saying that claiming that "We are the Illuminati" when you are obviously not is hardly a way to encourage me to read your massive amounts of text.

Obviously not? How did you know without reading the contents of the given website? How did you know that they are not?

Again, if you believe that these "aims": www.meritocracy.org.uk... are in congruence with the Illuminati, you've a radically different view of the Illuminati than the rest of the world. I don't need to read gobs of ravings to conclude that. Let me explain logic to you:

Claim 1: "We are the Illuminati"
Claim 2: "We support meritocracy.org, which is 180 degrees opposite from the Illuminati"

Sing along with me, now... "one of these things is not like the other!"

Two contradictory claims cannot both be true. Given that the Illuminati is a secretive organization, elitist in nature, and not given to putting up websites and writing fictional books that reveal anything... I'm going with door #2.



OP, my apologies for your thread being derailed -- I don't really care who postulated the original text, and if you'd like to continue to discuss that, let's get things back on topic.

reply to post by adjensen


First off, stop thinking you know what the Illuminati was, is, or will be. You don't know.

Research the history of the Illuminati. You can't make a judgement without prior knowledge, and I'm sure your source is just the general opinion of the people who post on this site. Then think a little.

Rich groups of people own us right now. That is not a new thing. However, there are a group of people that are planning to overthrow the ancient, feudal style of society that we live in now.

Some of the members of that group do hold a bit of wealth, but they are on YOUR side unless you are an old money billionaire or Hollywood icon. That group of people, and more specifically their goals, are what you have misinterpreted to be the Illuminati. Just think, who stands to gain by turning opinion against groups promising radical change?

The Old World Order. That is the world we live in right now. No freedom. Unknowing slaves.
If somebody comes along and tells you that they want to help build a New World Order, why would you deny them the oppertunity to just try?

And as Lateral posted earlier, you answered you own question in your reply. Think about that as well. Also, try to read EVERYTHING, in context, before you appoint yourself judge and jury.

reply to post by CaDreamer


The Pharisee's accused Christ of working for Satan, here was his reply.

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

-Matthew 12:24-28

And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

-Mark 3:22-26

You all should google John the Baptist, and also look up the Gnostic texts uncovered in Nag Hammandi in 1945.

Im sure it will make the discussion more interesting.

Originally posted by SunTzu22
Rich groups of people own us right now. That is not a new thing. However, there are a group of people that are planning to overthrow the ancient, feudal style of society that we live in now.

So the elites are planning on overthrowing the elites and somehow this benefits us?

I wrote the following in another thread regarding the nitwits behind Zeitgeist and the Venus Project. You might wish to give it some consideration.

It's not merely the people in charge, you also need to be wary of the people who WANT to be in charge. The 1917 Russian revolution substituted Bolshevik for Romanov, to the betterment of the Bolsheviks, but there was little improvement for the typical citizen, and within twenty years, millions would be dead at the hand of their supposed saviors.

Suspect, deeply, anyone who says that they have a better way, but they need you to do the heavy lifting of getting them into the position where they can make it happen. In the end, they will have achieved their goal, power, but you'll be reliant on them to achieve yours. Hardly parity.

Now, as to your own thread, do you want to get back on track, regarding Christian supersessionism, or was that just a red herring (no pun intended) to promote this website?

reply to post by adjensen


The clarification of your misinterpration directly pertains to my post, and only in a childs mind could it be viewed as a red herring or promotion, but I digress...

You forget the simple and obvious fact, that not every super billionaire is born that way. Some came from relative poverty. And the ones that were born into the life, didn't get a choice. They didn't choose to have evil parents. Some of them resent the system they were born into. It takes their humanity from them, and that is a high price to pay.

What would you call the people that would be elected to direct a government or society ( lets say in an HONEST election), would you not call them "Elite's"???