I'm a Christian I'm not violent/fundamentalist. Tell me I'm lying!

reply to post by ArchIlluminatus


You're definately lying

ISNT a chistian president who stopped the steam cell research??????i dont personally know u but i know the actions ,of some call christians.The last christian died in the cross,the rest are just copycats.DONT TAKE THE BURDEN.

Originally posted by CandiceZ

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
I'm considering leaving ATS because for a community of open minded people, there are surely a LOT of close minded individuals here.

Most Christians are the most closed minded people you could meet. I dont think I know of any open minded Christians.

Hi, nice to meet you. I am an open minded Christian, as are all of the other Christians that are members of this forum. Think for a second, this is ATS. What do we all talk about on this forum? Ideally, new ideas, or different ways of thinking about things. People that are Christians here on ATS have to be open minded in order to even register because if they weren't, they wouldn't even take the time to register to a, "blasphemous, God-hating website spawned by satan," just for the mere fact that this site doesn't conform to their religious beliefs. For those close-minded Christians, anything that doesn't agree with their strict Christian world view is blasphemous and made by satan to, "lead those on the path astray." So again, most every Christian you meet here on ATS is open-minded, aside from the random bible-belter that registers to "save the ignorant."

Originally posted by molecularstranding
The neccesity of this thread does not really seem to fit with Christianity, In prominent Muslim countries, because they are Muslim, they behead, rape and torture in the name of Allah and their holy book justifies it. It says anything is ok to do as long as it is in the name of Allah. In prominent Christian countries, we have fake Christians that, just people claiming they are Christians, but not acting Christ like. If you are violent and cause harm to others (not talking self defense, Christ says self defense is ok) you are NOT Christian, the same CANNOT be said about Muslim people.



I am Muslim and I have no wish to kill anyone for any reason. Nor will I ever do violence in the name of God. When you speak this way about Muslim people in the middle and far east kindly remember that all of those traits which you find objectionable were firmly existent long before Islam came about. Shall I say to you that you are a heathen just because, in Chronicles and Leviticus, violence is spoken of as though it were allowed? The difference between Christianity and Islam is that, for the most part, Christianity has given up and moved beyond ancient remedies for those who offend. Because Islamic countries in the east are so much more isolated than elsewhere this has yet to occur. The opportunity for Islam to thrive here in America is a good, God blessed one, because here the old tribal animosities vanish and we all become Americans.

You say there are fake Christians. By the same measure there are fake Muslims. If both our groups are to be judged by their minority components then the least the rest of us can do is to recognize that fact and avoid reacting to it as we do.

Christianity should welcome the opportunity to help these brothers and sisters since the time of Abraham in updating their world views. Most of us have. Some will never and must eventually die out.

There is only one God for us all.

Thank You

It is so very sad that a Christian thinks that it is their personal responsibility to defend the Faith either violently or Non-Violently. Christ HAS NOT called you to do so. The Faith needs none of us to defend it, that is the job of the Holy Sprit, not ours.

You are called to live in this world and not be part of it. Let your light shine so All men can see. This is your calling and nothing else.

I understand that when your light is dim, and you are incapable of lighting the path, one tries to compensate with human responses. You were taught that you would be reviled for his teachings, and you should count this as Grace. Rejoice in it. All is thanks giving.

When others hate you for your faith, stop taking it personal, it has nothing to do with you, it is just a reflection of the blackness of their own heart. Your response should be pity, empathy, silent prayer for your lost brother. You do not need to preach, to your lost brother, wait on the Sprit of GOD to do his work and your lost brother will find you out, if Your light is bright enough to light his way.

So, Christian it is your job to quit looking outward, start looking inward, make sure your house is in order and the lamp is lighted.

Originally posted by Crunkman919

Originally posted by CandiceZ

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
I'm considering leaving ATS because for a community of open minded people, there are surely a LOT of close minded individuals here.

Most Christians are the most closed minded people you could meet. I dont think I know of any open minded Christians.

Hi, nice to meet you. I am an open minded Christian, as are all of the other Christians that are members of this forum. Think for a second, this is ATS. What do we all talk about on this forum? Ideally, new ideas, or different ways of thinking about things. People that are Christians here on ATS have to be open minded in order to even register because if they weren't, they wouldn't even take the time to register to a, "blasphemous, God-hating website spawned by satan," just for the mere fact that this site doesn't conform to their religious beliefs. For those close-minded Christians, anything that doesn't agree with their strict Christian world view is blasphemous and made by satan to, "lead those on the path astray." So again, most every Christian you meet here on ATS is open-minded, aside from the random bible-belter that registers to "save the ignorant."

May I add to what you say that I believe no where is Satan more active than in religion. Any religion. Here is where he can achieve his goals most effectively by "catching the pious unwary" and fouling their thoughts. It has definitely happened in Islam, my religion and I am also certain that it has happened in Christianity. Satan does not enter the church or mosque but he certainly stands waiting for us at the exits from those. When he is successful we all fight each other in God's name.

reply to post by Target Earth


You've obviously missed the past 2000 years of history.

If you look back in history at the countless acts of murder and genocide committed by or for the church you would see that Christianity is not exactly an innocent party. The Crusades, The Inquisition and the Rwandan genocides to name but a few.

And who could forget, the systematic child abuse and cover up of child molestation that has happened in the past how-many-knows centuries.

As for not being violent or blowing people up

Provisional Irish Republican Army

When you cut yourself, does it bleed red?

When a Muslim cuts him/herself, does that also bleed red?

How about Buddhists?

Or Jews?


We are all in this together people, all religion does is attempt to divide us - quite successfully thus far I might add.

What is truly absurd to me, is that both God, and Allah...supposedly being one in the same, but have completely different teachings, is based off of the Sun god and Moon god respectively.

Only problem is, just a few weeks ago, researchers and scientists found the human remains, and fecal matter in cave. ( cant remember where) After a series of testing, they proved beyond a reasonable doubt that those very remains were 14k years old. Now here lies the problem, if researchers proved through DNA testing, that these remains were 14k years old, and the story of Jesus, and Allah are only roughly 2k years old, not to mention if you add the story of the Old testament, your looking at a story from start to finish to be, maybe 5k years of age.

So how does a story, suggesting that these two gods were the Creators, only have a life span of estimated 5k years, when the remains found suggested many years before the alleged Creation? Now I know I'll have " debunkers" who try to substantiate their belief system, and thats ok. But Proven science, is far closer to reality, than a story where someone has yet to see this mythical character.

Simply the fact that you thought it a worthy idea of your efforts to copypasta the whole thread concept due to your obvious artificially media generated distaste for Muslims denotes that you are a confrontationalist christian and are quite radical in your beliefs.

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by Target Earth

 

You've obviously missed the past 2000 years of history.

If you look back in history at the countless acts of murder and genocide committed by or for the church you would see that Christianity is not exactly an innocent party. The Crusades, The Inquisition and the Rwandan genocides to name but a few.

And who could forget, the systematic child abuse and cover up of child molestation that has happened in the past how-many-knows centuries.

As for not being violent or blowing people up

Provisional Irish Republican Army

Right on, and I might also add:

en.wikipedia.org...

and these lovely tidbits:

United States

The majority of anti-abortion violence has been committed in the United States of America.[citation needed]
[edit] Murders

In the U.S., violence directed towards abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.[6][7]

* March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
* July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003.
* December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
* January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
* October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
* May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at church in Wichita, Kansas.[8]

[edit] Attempted murder, assault, and kidnapping

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[9] Attempted murders in the U.S. included:[6][10][11]

* August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).
* July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
* December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
* October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[12]
* January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

[edit] Arson, bombing, and property crime

According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[9] The New York Times also cites over one hundred clinic bombings and incidents of arson, over three hundred invasions, and over four hundred incidents of vandalism between 1978 and 1993.[13] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[14] Incidents have included:

* December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[15][16][17]
* May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.[18]
* October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[19]
* May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire resulted in several thousand dollars' worth of damage. The case remains unsolved.[20][21][22] This was the second arson at the clinic.[23]
* September 30, 2000: John Earl, a Catholic priest, drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.[24]
* June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages.[19]
* July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[19]
* December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a “memorial lamp” for an abortion she had had there.[25]
* September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions, however Edgerton is not an abortion clinic.[26]
* April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[27]
* May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[28]
* December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Altman’s girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[29]
* January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness [30] rammed a SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[31]

[edit] Anthrax threats

The first hoax letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting; since then, there have been 655 such bioterror threats made against abortion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.[10][32]

* November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. On December 3, 2003, Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare.

from:

en.wikipedia.org...

I think it's also important to mention that this ENTIRE branch of christianity (which I do not capitalize intentionally) is an artificial creation of the 20th Century and amalgamates numerous offshoots and sects of Christianity which broke from the mainstream Church during the formative years of the US (Mormonism, for example). These branches of Christianity were manipulated by liberal political figures of the 1950's, namely Leo Strauss and Irving Kristol (father of neoconservative William Kristol and prominent liberal writer of the mid-1950's). Kristol abandoned liberalism in the mid-1960's when he saw the results of liberal reform throughout the late 50's to the mid-60's and created what he termed "neoconservatism" as he thought that liberals were incapable of solving the problems they had created and that no one would take another "liberal reform" seriously in the general public anyway. He was right.

One of the primary tenets later taught by both Kristol and had always been taught by Strauss at the University of Chicago was that a great political myth would have have to be promulgated within the general public of the US and that Christianity, specifically the Oral Roberts/Billy Graham style pentecostal christianity (which had developed out of the aforementioned sects) would be the vehicle to deliver that myth and that it wasn't necessary for the promoters of the new "Christian Patriot" myth to ACTUALLY believe that myth but only that it appear as if they did whilst in public. How they lived their private lives was of no concern.

This is how we get personalities such as Ted Haggard leading our youth right from the pulpit to under their desks all in the name of money....uhhhh...oh, and God. But really it's all in name of political power because these mass numbers of people are now used as voting cows and are driven all over the political map to support people like Sarah Palin and George Bush who support massive stupid war industrial complexes based on oil and outsourced slave labor.

I believe that it is time we cease looking at pentecostal fundamentalist christianity as a religious phenomenon and begin looking at it as the POLITICAL phenomenon that it is. Just like radical Islam. Sa'id Qutb (the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood which gave rise to people like Ayman al-Zawahiri "bin Laden's number 2") and Leo Strauss (mentioned above) taught virtually identical philosophies when it came to their descriptions of the culture of the US.

Watch Adam Curtis' "The Power of Nightmares" for more info on fundamentalist chirstianity, neoconservatism, radical islam, and the development of all three.

Also:

"The Doomsday Code" by Tony Robinson on Google Video.

"Jesus Camp" on Google Video.

"Louis Theroux Weird Weekends "Born Again Christians" BBC on Youtube.

There is one called "Missionaries of Hate" about American fundamentalist missionaries in Uganda that support groups like the Lord's Resistance Army which DOES massacre entire villages, DOES have child soldiers, and DOES believe in human ownership and the officers often own multiple underage "wives." This documentary has proved very difficult to locate thus far.

But everything else is freely available on the websites listed and I don't link them intentionally either as those truly interested will easily find it themselves in less than 30 seconds. Have fun being a hypocrite, OP.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Well, first off there isn't 2 Gods, it's one seeing as how Allah is just the arabic word for GOD. Completely different teachings, I disagree, at the core, before twisted misinterpretations and misrepresentations the concept is be good, and praise God. They're not COMPLETELY different at all. Actually, on my thread there was quite a few people detailing the various similarities.

According to Abrahamic religions, Adam was the first man, so with that said, what does the time of Jesus have to do with the time of Adam???

The creation didn't take place at the time of the Old Testament. The Old Testament TOLD the story of creation. I'ma need for you to read a little bit more.

Originally posted by CandiceZ

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
I'm considering leaving ATS because for a community of open minded people, there are surely a LOT of close minded individuals here.

Most Christians are the most closed minded people you could meet. I dont think I know of any open minded Christians.

Just because they don't agree with your views doesn't make them close minded. After all you don't agree with their views, does that make YOU close minded?

reply to post by trailertrash

Before I say anything, THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS, speaking in terms of the type of people that make up a like minded group.

You can say all you want about Chronicles and Leviticus, we now have a new covenant. And of course there are those that claim to be Muslim and are not. But, if you claim to be Muslim and you behead, stone or rape someone in the name of Allah, you are most definitely a Muslim in those actions or just doing what a Muslim should do, according to Islamic law. If you claim to be a Christian and you behead, stone or rape someone in the name of YHWH, you are most definitely not a Christian in those actions or you are not doing what a Christian should do, according to the Holy Bible. This is the problem and why this thread is not a necessity for Christianity. I do not believe that bringing Islam to a different location on the planet will change the way the majority of followers conduct themselves according to their religion. There are just way too many psychotic elitist "Muslims" in this time for the religion to hold up to its title "The religion of peace". The only thing stopping them is the fact that the majority of Americans are not accepting of them, which is their right, and if they were to try that Sharia law junk here, they would get stuffed full of lead. There is not a damn thing wrong with anyones choosing to be Muslim, just do not try to hide what the religion is about. The one thing I find silly about Islam and the Quran, it was written 650 AFTER Jesus walked the earth, and they made all these FALSE claims about the accounts of Jesus, and of course they had to say their main prophet, a pedophile, was closer to God than the son of God, which they say he is NOT the son of God, and that he did not die on the cross and he was not resurrected. Anyone who would follow this fiction, over eye witness testimonies, needs to explain to me, WHY?

Originally posted by molecularstranding

Originally posted by totalmetal

Originally posted by molecularstranding
The neccesity of this thread does not really seem to fit with Christianity, In prominent Muslim countries, because they are Muslim, they behead, rape and torture in the name of Allah and their holy book justifies it. It says anything is ok to do as long as it is in the name of Allah. In prominent Christian countries, we have fake Christians that, just people claiming they are Christians, but not acting Christ like. If you are violent and cause harm to others (not talking self defense, Christ says self defense is ok) you are NOT Christian, the same CANNOT be said about Muslim people.

The Christian holy book justifies stoning adulterers, gays, and disobedient children. ..................................................................................... Where is the difference?

John chapter 8 verse 7
"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

This is just one little facet of the differences.

Yes, I gave you a star, but don't forget this part:
John 8:11 She said, "No one, sir." Then Jesus said, "I don't condemn you, either. Go home, and from now on do not sin any more."
Did you catch that? 'from now on do not sin any more.'
I will now ask you this: Do Christians believe that it is possible to stop sinning?

I'll believe it when i see some Christians start ranting about Christians who lie and demonize entire groups for not believing in God, such as when certain people on this site start ranting about atheists not believing the same way they do and are trying to control how people think.

I really would like to see some Christians put their foot down and protest these people. To my knowledge, they don't. And I've never seen Christians oppose those other Christians doing that crap. At least to my knowledge anyhow.