Is there God?

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Nah i don't post for stars either but its fun to get them!

ya made up for it with your reply though so i'll give you one even though i don't agree with you

You made me laugh in a very good way, thanks.

I hope one day you'll understand what it is. It's not a bad thing you know, it's just too many people confuse it all and mislead a lot of people throughout the years. It's not Christianity, it's religion and mans ego controlling it instead of just letting God do it. It's not a perfect world.

But it is a perfect world!

So perfect in fact that God himself has no need to interfere...

christianity is just a label

Either way im glad i made you smile

reply to post by alienreality


Glad you found him.
You sure God is not a woman?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


So God is everything? Than why call it 'God'? What's the point of using that label? It's an arbitrary and meaningless association with absolutely no implications other than the odd labeling of an already existing concept.

Once more, where is the evidence for any deity?

reply to post by hawaii50th

Originally posted by hawaii50th
Many are limiting their mind with human intellect, you can never get the scope of God's mind as long as you live in the box of man's own intellect.

Possibly. If there were a god you might have a point...but yet there is no indication of so much as the presence of this being you call 'god'. There would be indication of its existence if it were indeed real and acted in the ways described by its proponents.

We are limited to our thinking without making the spiritual connection to God, it is impossible to even begin to understand.

So you have to believe in order to have evidence? Sorry, that's just logically fallacious.

In the end, I don't think a lot of people want to accept the fact or idea that there is a God.

I'm going to repeat this for the umpteenth time: I don't care either way. I just want whatever position is supported by facts and evidence and reason.

They don't want to accept the fact that they are arrogant in their thinking.

Being open to correction in the face of facts and evidence is arrogant now?

They don't want to admit that they are limited to their grasp on a higher power who is God.

Of course I'm limited. I exist at the 10^1 scale in an organic body that only has about 5 senses and shoddy versions of those senses at that. But I still should have the tools necessary to determine the existence of this being you keep asserting exists.

It is beyond comprehension by most people and that's the way it stands.

So there's a group with 'special knowledge'...yay, special pleading fallacy.

These are the last days, never in all history has there been this large amount of a rejection of God, and Christ.

...circa 50 CE to 300 CE. Practically no Christians at that time and those that did exist all lived around the Mediterranean.

Actually, I think 33% of the global population is the highest Christianity has ever achieved. I doubt there's been a time of greater acceptance of Christianity than recent years.

reply to post by hawaii50th


Christianity is a religion. It is definitively a religion. There is no manner in which it is not a religion. And Christianity has been a cause of many ills upon the world. It held back society for centuries and it still tries to prevent progress on many fronts.

Now, is it the cause of all ills? No, of course not. Is it the cause of some of them? Hell yes.

God is real

reply to post by amazing

I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU STILL FOLLOWING UP ON THIS BUT I WILL DO MY BEST ANYWAY
YOU SEEM SINCERE AND SERIOUS AND SO I WILL BE
Q1 : THERE IS GOD YOU MIGHT REQUEST A PROOF
A- THERE IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT BETWEEN A DEAD BODY AND A LIVING ONE ,SOME PEOPLE CALL IT THE SOUL OTHERS ENERGY AND SO ON
IT MAKES YOU A LIVE ALTHOUGH YOU CANNOT IDENTIFY NOR QUANTIFY BUT YOU KNOW IT EXISTS HOW CAN ANY BODY DENIES WHO MADE IT .THEY SAY WE WERE MADE BY CHANCE AND WHY THE SAME CHANCE DID NOT MAKE SPACESHIPS UNTIL TODAY WHAT CHANCE THAT CAN MAKE ALL THE ANIMAL KINGDOM AND THE SEE CREATURES AND THE BEES AND THE PERFECT PLANET AND SO ON
THOSE WHO BELIEVES IN WHAT SCIENCE PROVES SEEMS LIKE THOSE AGES AGO WHO DENY THE POSSIBILITY OF A TV AND RADIO AND PHONES AND MOON TRAVEL JUST BECAUSE THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND OR PROVE AT THAT TIME .THEY KNOW THAT SCIENCE ADVANCES EVERY DAY CAN MAKE THE KNOWLEDGE OF TODAY LIKE GARBAGE LATER ON SO THEY DO NOT BELIEVE ON WHAT THEY CANNOT PROVE BY TODAY'S SCIENCE
I CAN TELL YOU A SECRET ,YOU TAKE ONE STEP TOWARDS GOD AND HE TAKES SEVERAL TOWARDS YOU YOU WALK TO GOD, GOD COMES YOU RUNNING AND GOD IS EVERY WHERE BUT YOU CANNOT DIRECTLY PERCEIVE WITH YOUR SENSES LIKE YOU ARE NOT PERCEIVABLE TO AN ANT THAT SEES FROM YOU A TINY SPOT ALTHOUGH YOU DO EXIST

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Once more, where is the evidence for any deity?

There is no evidence in this world that would ever convince you of any deity.

You don't have the mind to comprehend it. That would be like trying to get a non believer to understand what its like to believe. It is just not possible.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

You asked me 'why call it god then?'. I'm sorry i thought i was writing on a thread that is talking about god.
If you are asking me to give evidence of a deity, then i don't think you read the post you replied to, i do not believe in any deity.

reply to post by amazing

I would like to suggest that you check out The Urantia Book. It is a very interesting book about God and his universe. Although many concepts are difficult because the human mind has a hard time trying to understanding things such as eternity and how something could not have a begining, it explains things in a much easier way than anything else I've found.

I believe most people believe in "something" and have a hard time defining it. Being from America, most people I know were raised by some flavor of Christianity of Judaism. Most have a hard time with it because many of its teachings are illogical. You won't have that problem with The Urantia Book. Everything makes sense and there is nothing to outrage the moral or ethical senses.

Example is the Atonement doctrine, which is the core of Christianity. That the shedding of Jesus' blood enabled us to be "saved". This is something that Jesus never taught! This made teaching made no sense to me. Even as a child I realized this. Jesus tried very hard to show that animal sacrifice was not needed to gain favor with God. If taught that why would he then sacrifice himself? He didn't! The Apostle Paul introduced the Atonement doctrine to make his new religion more acceptable to Jews who still believed without the shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin.

Depends on your definition of "god". Such a loose word with no concrete meaning.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Nah i don't post for stars either but its fun to get them!

ya made up for it with your reply though so i'll give you one even though i don't agree with you

You made me laugh in a very good way, thanks.

I hope one day you'll understand what it is. It's not a bad thing you know, it's just too many people confuse it all and mislead a lot of people throughout the years. It's not Christianity, it's religion and mans ego controlling it instead of just letting God do it. It's not a perfect world.

But it is a perfect world!

So perfect in fact that God himself has no need to interfere...

christianity is just a label

Either way im glad i made you smile

edit on 19-3-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

To say the world is perfect is to say that nothing can be improved upon and there is nothing to aspire from the spire thereof. This is not the case.

@ Akrigos Man's ego is in effect directly correlated with the idea of god to begin with. Without man's "ego" what would god be? And without religion what use is knowledge of "god"? Seems arbitrary.

Originally posted by IamBoon

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Nah i don't post for stars either but its fun to get them!

ya made up for it with your reply though so i'll give you one even though i don't agree with you

You made me laugh in a very good way, thanks.

I hope one day you'll understand what it is. It's not a bad thing you know, it's just too many people confuse it all and mislead a lot of people throughout the years. It's not Christianity, it's religion and mans ego controlling it instead of just letting God do it. It's not a perfect world.

But it is a perfect world!

So perfect in fact that God himself has no need to interfere...

christianity is just a label

Either way im glad i made you smile

edit on 19-3-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

To say the world is perfect is to say that nothing can be improved upon and there is nothing to aspire from the spire thereof. This is not the case.

@ Akrigos Man's ego is in effect directly correlated with the idea of god to begin with. Without man's "ego" what would god be? And without religion what use is knowledge of "god"? Seems arbitrary.

edit on 2-5-2011 by IamBoon because: To relate

No my friend i didn't say mans words or actions are perfect... Far from it actually...

I said the world is perfect, nature is perfect... As is all of creation.

God would still be God regardless of our existance. If the world was destroyed right now, God would still exist. Religion on the other hand is just a means of understanding God. Which for the most part is also flawed.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by IamBoon

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Nah i don't post for stars either but its fun to get them!

ya made up for it with your reply though so i'll give you one even though i don't agree with you

You made me laugh in a very good way, thanks.

I hope one day you'll understand what it is. It's not a bad thing you know, it's just too many people confuse it all and mislead a lot of people throughout the years. It's not Christianity, it's religion and mans ego controlling it instead of just letting God do it. It's not a perfect world.

But it is a perfect world!

So perfect in fact that God himself has no need to interfere...

christianity is just a label

Either way im glad i made you smile

edit on 19-3-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

To say the world is perfect is to say that nothing can be improved upon and there is nothing to aspire from the spire thereof. This is not the case.

@ Akrigos Man's ego is in effect directly correlated with the idea of god to begin with. Without man's "ego" what would god be? And without religion what use is knowledge of "god"? Seems arbitrary.

edit on 2-5-2011 by IamBoon because: To relate

No my friend i didn't say mans words or actions are perfect... Far from it actually...

I said the world is perfect, nature is perfect... As is all of creation.

God would still be God regardless of our existance. If the world was destroyed right now, God would still exist. Religion on the other hand is just a means of understanding God. Which for the most part is also flawed.

Are we not part of nature? Are we not a part of creation? How can god exist without his idea.... which that is what creates the concept. And you say religion is flawed... Which is not perfect. What concept of god do you subscribe to? A type of Deism? Seems you are leaning that way, and if you are the concept of god and our understanding thereof is worthless.

Originally posted by IamBoon

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by IamBoon

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Nah i don't post for stars either but its fun to get them!

ya made up for it with your reply though so i'll give you one even though i don't agree with you

You made me laugh in a very good way, thanks.

I hope one day you'll understand what it is. It's not a bad thing you know, it's just too many people confuse it all and mislead a lot of people throughout the years. It's not Christianity, it's religion and mans ego controlling it instead of just letting God do it. It's not a perfect world.

But it is a perfect world!

So perfect in fact that God himself has no need to interfere...

christianity is just a label

Either way im glad i made you smile

edit on 19-3-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

To say the world is perfect is to say that nothing can be improved upon and there is nothing to aspire from the spire thereof. This is not the case.

@ Akrigos Man's ego is in effect directly correlated with the idea of god to begin with. Without man's "ego" what would god be? And without religion what use is knowledge of "god"? Seems arbitrary.

edit on 2-5-2011 by IamBoon because: To relate

No my friend i didn't say mans words or actions are perfect... Far from it actually...

I said the world is perfect, nature is perfect... As is all of creation.

God would still be God regardless of our existance. If the world was destroyed right now, God would still exist. Religion on the other hand is just a means of understanding God. Which for the most part is also flawed.

Are we not part of nature? Are we not a part of creation? How can god exist without his idea.... which that is what creates the concept. And you say religion is flawed... Which is not perfect. What concept of god do you subscribe to? A type of Deism? Seems you are leaning that way, and if you are the concept of god and our understanding thereof is worthless.

Of course we're a part of nature and creation. Again, do you think everything would cease to exist if humanity went extinct? Without our little world the universe would continue to exist. The only real flaw in creation is our thoughts and actions, and yet those are also not flaws. They're each persons experiences from which they learn from.

God is the All, everything...the whole. The physical and the spiritual, and all dimentions in between. Religion is flawed... They miss the actual message being taught in the so called "holy books"...

It seems to me you believe that without human kind believing in God he/it ceases to exist... That is also flawed logic. If God is the all, he always has and always will exist... But that also depends on if you believe in God at all.

reply to post by Akragon


Explain to me in rational terms how he exists without being created himself? God in all religions is an idea and without an idea of god there is no existence. Is Ra real? If you are saying god is everything then why is he god? Is god a rock>? What are Gods attributes? Why is god called god? What signifies it?

Why bring in a figure that cause more problems in logic? Just because certain things cannot be explained in science yet? Filling a vacuum in science with god has always led to unbelief when science finally comes to an answer.

reply to post by IamBoon

Explain to me in rational terms how he exists without being created himself? God in all religions is an idea and without an idea of god there is no existence.

Who said anything about the God in religions? He exists because creation exists... isn't that rational? I said God is all, everything without exception. Perhaps he didn't need to be created himself... Perhaps God has always existed. I don't assume what i don't know.

Is Ra real?

The egyption God?

If you are saying god is everything then why is he god?

What kind of question is that?

Is god a rock>?

Yes... what don't you understand about "all"...or "whole"...or even "everything"

i can't be any more clear.

What are Gods attributes?

What arn't Gods attributes? Look around you... or refer to the above statement.

Why is god called god? What signifies it?

Why bring in a figure that cause more problems in logic? Just because certain things cannot be explained in science yet?

Its completely logical, besides you'd be supprized how much the bible and science agree on it seems.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by IamBoon

 

Explain to me in rational terms how he exists without being created himself? God in all religions is an idea and without an idea of god there is no existence.

Who said anything about the God in religions? He exists because creation exists... isn't that rational? I said God is all, everything without exception. Perhaps he didn't need to be created himself... Perhaps God has always existed. I don't assume what i don't know.

Is Ra real?

The egyption God?

If you are saying god is everything then why is he god?

What kind of question is that?

Is god a rock>?

Yes...

what don't you understand about "all"...or "whole"...or even "everything"

i can't be any more clear.

What are Gods attributes?

What arn't Gods attributes? Look around you... or refer to the above statement.

Why is god called god? What signifies it?

Why bring in a figure that cause more problems in logic? Just because certain things cannot be explained in science yet?

Its completely logical, besides you'd be supprized how much the bible and science agree on it seems.

haha, nice.
Akragon is right, if there is a god, it is omnipresent omnisapient and omnipotent, in other word It is everything that has ever been and is everything that will always be, it can brake each one of the laws of physics and do anything, thus, he knows everything

reply to post by IamBoon

I think you would agree that you exist, right? How did you get here? I don't mean just you physical body, but your mind. It just happened? To me it is much more plausible to have one uncaused cause than billions or trillions. Where God came from is the one unanswerable question. I think it would be much more difficult to answer the question, where did everything come from if you don't have a creator? The Big Bang theory is a joke. Everything in existance reeks of intelligent design.

Physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how a human being evolved out of the primeval protoplasm of the early seas. The ability to learn, memory and differential response to environment, is the endowment of mind. The laws of physics are not responsive to training; they are immutable and unchanging. The reactions of chemistry are not modified by education; they are uniform and dependable. Electrical and chemical reactions are predictable. But mind can profit from experience, can learn from reactive habits of behavior in response to repetition of stimuli.

Mathematics, material science, is indispensable to the intelligent discussion of the material aspects of the universe, but such knowledge is not necessarily a part of the higher realization of truth or of the personal appreciation of spiritual realities. Not only in the realms of life but even in the world of physical energy, the sum of two or more things is very often something more than, or something different from, the predictable additive consequences of such unions. The entire science of mathematics, the whole domain of philosophy, the highest physics or chemistry, could not predict or know that the union of two gaseous hydrogen atoms with one gaseous oxygen atom would result in a new and qualitatively superadditive substance — liquid water. The understanding knowledge of this one physiochemical phenomenon should have prevented the development of materialistic philosophy and mechanistic cosmology.

Technical analysis does not reveal what a person or a thing can do. For example: Water is used effectively to extinguish fire. That water will put out fire is a fact of everyday experience, but no analysis of water could ever be made to disclose such a property. Analysis determines that water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen; a further study of these elements discloses that oxygen is the real supporter of combustion and that hydrogen will itself freely burn.

The name we give God is unimportant. It matters not if you call him Ra, God, Allah or whatever. It's all the same God. The only thing that changes is the persons concept. Early religions believed God was superhuman in a way and had emotions like us. The more advanced religions realize that we were made in God's image and I don't mean our phyical bodies I mean our spirit.

In a generic way, yes God is everything in that he caused all of creation. He created the mechinisms and established the laws that enable reality. That doesn't mean God is your computer screen or chair. He just made it possible. Cultures have always used a word that embraces their highest concept of the creator. For us that work is God.

The attributes of God: Omnipresence, Omnipotent, Omnificence and Creatorship.


Something else to consider:

The uncertainties of life and the hardships of existence do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities. Consider the following:

Is courage — strength of character — desirable? Then must man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling with hardships and reacting to disappointments.

Is altruism — service of one’s fellows — desirable? Then must life experience provide for encountering situations of social inequality.

Is hope — the grandeur of trust — desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.

Is faith — the supreme assertion of human thought — desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.

Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where error is present and falsehood always possible.

Is idealism — the approaching concept of the divine — desirable? Then must man struggle in an environment of relative goodness and beauty, surroundings stimulative of the irrepressible reach for better things.

Is loyalty — devotion to highest duty — desirable? Then must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the implied danger of default.

Is unselfishness — the spirit of self-forgetfulness — desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.

Is pleasure — the satisfaction of happiness — desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities.

reply to post by UB2120


If god is just everything and that is all, then what use is the title of god?On what grounds is the thought of god being "everything" rational?


The argument that everything is created has no bearing on the concept of everything is god. It seems like some old age jumbo made to look real. It seems like deism.

Just by the principle of anthropic thought you claim this is true? That evidence is called a fallacy you know!
For example, one man said " Wow, look at the sun! Wonder we revolve around it!" and his cohort replied, "I wonder what it would look like if the sun revolved around us!" They both laughed because it would look the same.

The fact that the universe is here is no proof at all for an being called "god". It is only proof that the universe is here. And a god that just "IS" everything does not really separate the idea from a magical being.

To keep restating the obvious, that "god" is everything, does not constitute a coherent belief. Can I worship myself since by my mind I know this world? And that by this accepted principle my mind in fact creates my world?

What makes this idea of "god" godly?