Do not part with your money...

Don't part with your money, unless you're really sure you know what you're doing..

This is just to show you all a particular website that seems to be playing on the growing popularity of the world of the paranormal.
As far as we can see, there is nothing official about this "Paranormal licensing agency". It looks more like a scam to make money through paying for a membership and/or paying for insurance.

If the Paranormal was taken seriously by the normal routes, then surely there would be a professional/governmental body who would set something like this up..

This appears to be something made in a backyard shed by someone with very large visions of grandeur.
This is the site in question;
www.ukbpa.org...
Here is the Whois data... take a look at Brian Lamberts phone number.. Looks like he does not want to be contacted directly unless he chooses...

REGISTRY WHOIS FOR UKBPA.ORG
Domain Name: ukbpa.org
Updated: 2 seconds ago - Refresh

Registrar: Tucows Inc. (R11-LROR)
Status: OK

Expiration Date: 2011-06-19 07:06:53
Creation Date: 2008-06-19 07:06:53
Last Update Date: 2010-10-25 13:20:14

Name Servers:
ns1.fasthostingdirect.co.uk
ns2.fasthostingdirect.co.uk
See ukbpa.org DNS Records

Information Updated: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:21:05 UTC
UKBPA.ORG SITE INFORMATION
IP: 79.170.44.127
IP Location: Nottingham, United Kingdom
Website Status: active
Server Type: Apache/2
Alexa Trend/Rank: Down Arrow 1 Month: 555,945 3 Month: 463,132
Page Views per Visit: Down Arrow 1 Month: 6.7 3 Month: 11.1

Registrant Contact Information:
Name: Brian lambert
Address 1: N/A
Address 2: N/A
City: BN2200U
Zip: 01323
Country: GB
Phone: +44.01234567
Fax: +44.01234567
Email: Email Masking [email protected]

Administrative Contact Information:
Name: Host Master
Organization: One.com
Address 1: Kalvebod Brygge 45
City: Copenhagen V
Zip: 1560
Country: DK
Phone: +45.46907100
Fax: +45.70205872
Email: Email Masking [email protected]

Technical Contact Information:
Name: Host Master
Organization: One.com
Address 1: Kalvebod Brygge 45
City: Copenhagen V
Zip: 1560
Country: DK
Phone: +45.46907100
Fax: +45.70205872
Email: Email Masking [email protected]


Information Updated: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:21:05 UTC

who.is...

There are several errors on the main page;
1. Memberships Types.
2. with new groups and practitioners are popping up all over the place.
3. This category is best is suited to

And to top it all, in the top left corner is a crest with, what is supposed to be, the George cross...

This might not be out of the ordinary for most, but it is elongated at the top to allow the crest to be placed... but it is an upside down cross.. an inverted Christian cross.. normally associated with Satanism/Dark practices.

Is this site legit or a scam to make money?
Since when did anyone need official ID cards to perform their spiritual beliefs/practices for others?
Who gave this person this "position of power"?

It states that "all members follow strict guidelines of practice to ensure quality of service given".
What guidelines? they're not on the web site from what I can see. Who created these rules?

It also quotes an ICO registration number which I am unable to find any info for on the main ICO website..
www.ico.gov.uk...

So be warned.. this is just a precautionary message.. until we know more about this group...don't part with your money..

reply to post by Extralien


Hey there Extralien,

I just received your u2u and did a little checking.

According to their website they were established in 2006, after reading a little of the information they provide they would seem to be a self-styled governing body who have set-up shop in an effort to weed out the charlatan groups.

On the surface this is a brilliant idea because the charlatans who are drawn to such fields for the clear intent of making as much money as they can have indeed caused much damage to the paranormal field and many theraputic fields.

However, I do not understand how they can set themselves up as such ... or what credentials they would need to perform as overseers ???

Yes they offer insurance to Paranormal Investigators but surely that is also available to the charlatans if they choose to become members of UKBPA ... how could they possibly discern between the real and the fake ?

What possible 'test' could be undertaken to prove you were a genuine investigator ... with moral intentions ... as opposed to a charlatan in it for the money ?

So, whilst I do not know whether this is a genuine site with a good (but unworkable) policy ... or whether they themselves are charlatans trying to rip people off I would have to urge people to be cautious before commiting to anything or parting with their money.

Can I ask how you came across this site ?

Woody

I looked at the site. What jumped out was how it looked like once of the "online ordination" sites.

While some Universities and Colleges in the US offer a course or two in the paranormal, I know of no college that has a formal curriculum and no one that issues a degree in that field.

In a sense, it would be an excellent idea.

In another sense, it would not be. I don't think having a "licensing" system is a good idea at all. The field is varied, there are a variety of different skills/equipment that teams use. We still don't know enough about the paranormal to say that all groups have to use the same or similar techniques.

Perhaps at some point, we will have the ability to do something like that, but not know. Like the reply above, one has to do some leg work. I would extend this to checking on the particular group you might want to use or join.

reply to post by woodwytch


Hiya Woody..

one of the people in our group found it and asked us all about it..

I thought I'd go one step further and bring attention to this to a wider audience.

Outcast mentioned about it being similar to online ordinations... You can't preach if you're not wearing a collar...

Something is definitely not right with this site.. no matter its good intentions, there just seems to be no info as to what "strict guidelines" are or methods of practice etc.. Lot's of "give me your money" though..

what a crock of Sh*t

not the UKBPA, this article....

I have worked with and FOR the ukbpa now since october 2008 this is neither a scam, nor a "self styled" governance.

The UKBPA actively works WITH and takes advice FROM the government with the aim of seeking several aims, one to reduce the high prices of venue charges, two, to eliminate rogue operators who do little and charge high prices, and do nothing but give the REAL teams a bad name by their bad operating practises and three, to set a code of conduct our member agree to stick to, safe working practices, data protection, ethics all included in those practices, as well as many others.

Brian is neither trying to hide his details, nor is any other member of the UKBPA committee of which i am also a member.

First of all, membership include many perks, cheap PARANORMAL ONLY tailored insurance, which cannot be gotten anywhere else, except from our partner, Westminster insurance (you can try, but you need to produce your membership card to get that specific insurance policy) venue discounts of up to 25%, free monthly download of the 100 page magazine "The Paranormal Watch" of which i am also editor, and free investigations, and end of year ball, which this year is happening in Scotland, where the member and his/her partner, get to come to the ball, stay overnight, FOR FREE. Something i might add, which is costing us at least £5000 to put on this year..... Scammer OBVIOUSLY go to all that length to do that for their members if all their interested in is taking their money.....

but of course, your research showed all of this didnt it???????

Seeing you have written an article with very little research or fact about us, im sure you wont mind me doing the same in The Paranormal Watch about your site will you?

The fact the magazine is also due to go out into the shops as well as being just an online magazine very soon, im sure you will have no problem with....

Well done on your BRILLIANTLY researched article.... i take my hats off to you on your journalistic prowess....

"Ignorance is the social disease of history. Is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance."

Perhaps, you should take your own advice more....

admin edit: please do not post libel about us on our own website. Thanks...

Whilst I accept that there is no OFFICIAL governing body that sensors rogue trading and charlatans in the paranormal world, surely it has to be appreciated that an organisation chooses to take on the mantle to protect the interests of the individual? Personally, I am sick and tired of those who wish to ride on the back of genuine hauntings by perpetuating the myth that their own specific venue is linked with paranormal activity. Surely someone with more knowledge in this area has an obligation to the general public and those investigating teams in pointing out the fakes, fakirs and frauds?

I applaud anyone who takes on this role.

And as for the main complaint 'Do Not Part With Your Money...' who are you trying to silence? The charlatans or those who wish to address the matter? From what I see your complaint is with regard to those complaining of the standards - and by that virtue, you yourselves demonstrate double standards: 'Don't pay UKBPA to expose the frauds.'

That aside, there are many associations throughout the UK (and this is where we are talking about) that are not government bonded in any way but are lauded by government bodies for their value in protecting the innocent from being duped. Trade associations in building, vehicular maintenance, plumbing, electricians... why not a paranormal watch that protects its members.

And as for accusations that UKBPA will gladly accept those 'charlatans' that it urges people to avoid providing they pay their money, that is absolute bull! Whilst membership is a veritable 'open' policy, any miscreants and frauds are very quickly rooted out. Like any organisation, membership should be open to all (at a cost, maybe) but once it is established your identity is fraudulent or your aims are not of those perpetuated by the association and mutually beneficial to all concerned your membership is rescinded forthwith.

Are you telling us that the US government endorses YOUR site? Because if that IS what you are alleging then you won't mind me calling in the IRS to establish just HOW they endorse what YOU are doing. Until then, stop vying for attention and trade by posting scurrilous accusations which are clearly un-researched and unfounded until you have all the information. The UKBPA poses no threat to you and is very sincere about its members interest. Sometimes you have to pay for quality and protection. Unions across the world charge for protection and some of them 'Teamsters Union' has been the subject of widespread corruption.

Finally, I would question the merits of AboveTopSecret.com. What are your sources and how do you lay claim to this title? Surely if it is above top secret you would not readily have access to this and therefore, any claims by yourselves are open to question. Just a thought!

reply to post by Extralien


Wow Extra, you seem to have struck a nerve with certain new members (last two replies)

Anyway, thanks for the warning but in my case: I can not part with that which I do not have....

Peace

yes he did, because

A.) what he says has NO basis in fact, further research would have proven this....
B.) it is libelous
C.) the owners of this site, have already received contact from us requesting a written retraction and apology or face recourse from our legal team....

i, as have the rest of the team, give up our time FREE to try and further the reputation of the paranormal industry/community, at NO point have we ever recieved any pay for doing so, and i will not have the reputation we have struggled to build torn down by one ignorant individual and a website who is, upon further research, is FAR from whiter than white ethically itself.....

reply to post by PWEditor


Well why not take up the challenge of an intellectual discussion with the OP? Beside proving your point, the exposure could help you gain more support.

I mean, you have already created the account for the purpose of notifying the OP and ATS staff, why not stay and enlighten us?

Peace

i dont think you will find anything i have said to be anything OTHER than factual.

i have put straight all the things that have been published here wrongly, i have explained what we are about, and i have done nothing other than state fact.

i have taken offence to being called scammer, simply on the basis that the UKBPA is a not-for-profit organisation, as further research could have found out, rather than a half-hearted attempt at research before damaging our reputation with wrong "facts"

reply to post by PWEditor

I never argued that what you state is invalid nor did I say that what the OP said was correct. I just noticed that you created an account simply for the purpose of responding to this thread (which is your good right) but it seems like such a waste of a perfectly good profile.

I am sure some more educated members will be along shortly to nit-pick your information apart and you'll have the chance to convince even the skeptics.

So i'll go ahead and say: Welcome to ATS, I hope you will enjoy your stay with us....

Onward and upward.

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Relax...I mainly wanted to save this thread to see where it goes. I think you are on to something Op. Keep up the good work.

I did notice that for an Editor the new poster has lousy punctuation....lol

reply to post by PWEditor


Which part of the government are you talking about? Is there a body with which we can all know/see/make contact with which would provide anyone else with the same support/information you're getting?

Agreed, some places do charge high prices.. but I cannot see how the government would be able to force people to charge less.. You don't see them doing that with the price of petrol, so why do it to healthy competition?

You say westminster insurance is your partner.. well, according to them, you are only related through the links that are on the UKBPA web site..

How do you explain the lack of an ICO number on the main ICO website?

At the time of my research there was very little, anywhere, about this site or the group.. Everyone I spoke to had never, ever, heard of you..

Please note, most of what I was saying was as a precautionary measure. At the time of writing, the UKBPA web site was poorly put together and contained mostly links to that insurance company. Most of the reactions I've seen and heard, so far, have not been very positive... Perhaps due to the massive lack of info/communication.

Maybe, everyone might have a different perspective if there was more advertising done to show any officials that support this.
We can all claim to be supported by someone/thing but sometimes the proof is in the pudding..

Oh and no offence meant to anyone either

And this link you provide, sott.net is relevant because???

I could have started this thread in sott if I had wanted to... or any other site for that matter.. it just so happens that I'm a member of this site.. freedom of speech, expression and choice is rightfully mine, is it not?

Im sure they will....

but seeings as this websites motto is "Deny Ignorance" i would expect a certain amount knowledge before posts like these are made.....

something, which hasn't been demonstrated so far imho.

If they take this post as gospel, without checking for themselves, then i think that only proves that the "Deny Ignorance" motto of this site, is clearly wrong.

reply to post by PWEditor


Your Reputation?
Sorry, but I was unaware you had any.
If you do have some, as you claim, then there is an apology for that.

Please note my use of the words 'looks', 'seems' and the like. At no point did I make any claims as to what your operation IS or IS NOT, just merely probables/possibles/assumptions/general thoughts/observations on something I'd never heard of or seen before... and had it not been brought to my attention by somebody else, I may never had heard of you in the future either..

I don't see any wrongly published material...just a discussion. Nobody has directly called you a scammer.

"Agreed, some places do charge high prices.. but I cannot see how the government would be able to force people to charge less.. You don't see them doing that with the price of petrol, so why do it to healthy competition? "

The government does not recieve tax on this, like they do petrol prices. Also, through membership to the UKBPA, discounts (up to 25%) are automatically applied upon proof of membership, in our instance, a membership card. The government are NOT forcing venues to charge less, they are more interested in helping us set ourselves up correctly, to pursue the aims we set out to achieve.

"You say westminster insurance is your partner.. well, according to them, you are only related through the links that are on the UKBPA web site"

Westmister, have set up a "Paranormal Only" insurance policy. Specifically tailored for paranormal groups/investigators and is only available with proof of UKBPA membership. This is up to 30% cheaper, being specifically tailored to the paranormal industry than regular public liability insurance, and covers the group/individual to up to 5 million.

"How do you explain the lack of an ICO number on the main ICO website?"

Unfortunately, not my department, so i cannot answer that directly myself, however, i will speak with brian, and get you an answer as soon as i possibly can.

"At the time of writing, the UKBPA web site was poorly put together and contained mostly links to that insurance company"

Our first website, was hacked and completely destroyed. We had to employ a temporary website, to for want of a better phrase, hold the fort until we could find the funds to get a full time website, and all the related information back online.

These funds, i might add, came from one Mr. Brian Lambert's own pockets, someone who's character you cast aspersions on.... please note, most of the outlaid money that goes into the UKBPA is from Mr. Brain Lambert's own pocket.

Not exactly the actions of a scamming site is it?

"freedom of speech, expression and choice is rightfully mine, is it not?"

It is. However, making accusations, without much evidence to support it, will not only land you in trouble, but will not exactly gain you great favour amongst the very people who set out to further the paranormal industry....

My suggestion is, next you publish your opinion, YOU MAKE SURE IT IS STATED AS JUST THAT, rather than make it look as if it is fact.

"I don't see any wrongly published material...just a discussion. Nobody has directly called you a scammer."

check the title of the thread.....

with regards to the ISO number, i think if you search Z1748182 and you will find all you need about us

reply to post by PWEditor


Looks at thread title...
Looks again...

Nope, still can't see anything in thread title that calls you a scammer...

If you get 25% off places then why are you not visibly promoting yourselves at these locations? I'd imagine Tutbury castle, hellfire caves, Bodmin jail and a few others would have heard of you, but of all my times visiting these places (and the people I know there) I've never seen or heard anything about you.. Maybe because there's times where we get in for free or are specifically asked to come and do an event by site owners themselves.. but that's neither here nor there..

Have tried again to search for the ICO number on the ICO site and I am unable to retrieve anything and have also tried different combinations of the example you gave posted above seeing as on the UKBPA website it says Zl748182 and you gave Z1748182 .. I'll just go ponder over that one for a while..

Nice list of 'sponsors' you've got there.. Also notice you've gotten rid of the upside down cross...

Still waiting to know which body of the government you work with/are connected to.

Again, i am not casting aspersions on anyones character..

I'm glad the post before last was civil and polite though..much better than the first few.. less anger and frustration in these last two posts of yours.. good work..

please note, most of the outlaid money that goes into the UKBPA is from Mr. Brain Lambert's own pocket.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
And from its paying members of course... otherwise what's the point of people paying all that money?

Not much evidence to support? All the evidence I needed was at hand at the time of the original posting.
I could, but wont to protect others, quote various other peoples responses as to how dodgy this UKBPA stuff all sounds..I'm not alone in what I said and at no point did i make a single accusation.

Please try not to throw the law book at me.. it wont work..I grew up with it...