PFC Manning Forced To Strip Naked

Originally posted by groingrinder
Traitors cover up war crimes.
Patriots expose war crimes.
America needs more PFC Mannings.

You mean the war crimes that were proven to be doctored video as to not show everthing that happened, and the Audio that wasnt intact to understand why they were engaging and what happend???

OOOO ya.......we call that propaganda, and falsified information..........hes not a patriot he was a disgruntled lil jack wad......

And he made suicide threats, they HAVE to take everything you have in your cell out for your own protection.....

People will twist anything out of context to make this guy seem like a martyr and to justify the actions taken by him.......

Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.
Abu Ghraib is alive and well. Now those guys were TRAITORS!

What a crock! This man is NOT a traitor...he chose to let We The People know some of the dirty little secrets our government is involved in, god forbid he shouldn't have. All governments are so paranoid that when their truths come out...and believe me eventually they will...that it is "ammo" for other governments in the world. Try using honesty as an approach and people like this kid wouldn't be needed.

If he did threaten to commit suicide...there are other methods for his safety than humiliation...then, humiliation is the only method these military animals understand...

No they were not. the did not commit treason mistreatment of POW is a far crime from getting people killed. The dirty little secrets that came out would have still come out if he had done the Right thing. The problem is he did the wrong thing.

its not humiliation until his lawyer decided to plaster the story all over the news to gain sympathy for him. sounds like he news a new lawyer or just have him shot already either way works for me.

maybe they should have just shot him. I know thats harsh but I dont condone torture. He's not coming home....and there are worse things than death. If you go into a situation not taking into account the worst case scenario then you are a fool. Personally I think he did a brave thing, but actions have consequences, most of which are morally objectionable. Thats why its a punishment. But if we are rounding up criminals we have to get them all. Not just the ones who get caught. Just throw a net over Washington and sort em out later.

Originally posted by Reaper2137
that's right it has no basis in a democratic society but when you enlist in the military you give up your rights. its right there in the contract that he signed. you give up alot of your rights. end of story. he is being treated fairly just because not every one is in the public spotlight doesn't mean it doesn't happen to other people.

I think they should have just shot him and been done with it. sends a great message we are not public we are not democratic in the military. We have our own Laws we have our own Rules we have our own way of doing things.

You miss the point, as do many. So, he "gives up his rights." Does that right include humiliation? What rights does he give up??? Does the military contract include "in the event of accusation you give up your right to dignity, etc?" He has not been CONVICTED. Does he not have the right to respect? Do his rights, which he has (according to you, only accused not convicted) include indefinable actions such as being stripped naked? Is that what ones sign in the military?

Next: i do not care what you *think* should be done with him.

But, by your *we* usage, i stand to reckon to mean you are of military, and by similar statements, your implication is that you have your own rules, to which the courts and the country do not apply. Now, i know that the military, in general, is a lot more respectable than your respresentation, and based upon your statements, i do not see you fit to represent my country. You think being military graces you with some privilege to which you can egotistically ignore law, or that you have your *own* set of laws answerable only unto yourselves? That you have *your own ways* to deal with things, that are outside *government* jurisdiction (and technically illegal if you do them) because they belong exclusively to the military.

I do not care what code you cite, one does not give up dignity simply upon being "accused," even if in military. If you think accusation implies guilt and is therefore outside the rule of law, even if military, you should get counseling.

"We are not democratic in the military. We have our own Laws we have our own Rules we have our own way of doing things. "

Then you are a robotic fascist thug with no respect for law, you are no friend of American Citizens, and you operate only on the things you have been conditioned to believe and enforce. You would best fit in, again i say, a fascist or dictatorial regime, you are spouting some crap un-befitting our great nation and those who are sworn to "protect" it.

I have nothing more to say to you.

Good night.

Originally posted by Liquesence

Originally posted by Reaper2137
that's right it has no basis in a democratic society but when you enlist in the military you give up your rights. its right there in the contract that he signed. you give up alot of your rights. end of story. he is being treated fairly just because not every one is in the public spotlight doesn't mean it doesn't happen to other people.

I think they should have just shot him and been done with it. sends a great message we are not public we are not democratic in the military. We have our own Laws we have our own Rules we have our own way of doing things.

You miss the point, as do many. So, he "gives up his rights." Does that right include humiliation? What rights does he give up??? Does the military contract include "in the event of accusation you give up your right to dignity, etc?" He has not been CONVICTED. Does he not have the right to respect? Do his rights, which he has (according to you, only accused not convicted) include indefinable actions such as being stripped naked? Is that what ones sign in the military?

Next: i do not care what you *think* should be done with him.

But, by your *we* usage, i stand to reckon to mean you are of military, and by similar statements, your implication is that you have your own rules, to which the courts and the country do not apply. Now, i know that the military, in general, is a lot more respectable than your respresentation, and based upon your statements, i do not see you fit to represent my country. You think being military graces you with some privilege to which you can egotistically ignore law, or that you have your *own* set of laws answerable only unto yourselves? That you have *your own ways* to deal with things, that are outside *government* jurisdiction (and technically illegal if you do them) because they belong exclusively to the military.

I do not care what code you cite, one does not give up dignity simply upon being "accused," even if in military. If you think accusation implies guilt and is therefore outside the rule of law, even if military, you should get counseling.

"We are not democratic in the military. We have our own Laws we have our own Rules we have our own way of doing things. "

Then you are a robotic fascist thug with no respect for law, you are no friend of American Citizens, and you operate only on the things you have been conditioned to believe and enforce. You would best fit in, again i say, a fascist or dictatorial regime, you are spouting some crap un-befitting our great nation and those who are sworn to "protect" it.

I have nothing more to say to you.

Good night.

I'm glad your done your statement shows you have no Ideal how our government works. The military does have its own laws. which are out side local and Federal Laws which is why we have our own police forces.
Were you come from you are innocent until proven guilty
Were I come from you are guilty until proven Innocent.

I don't care what you throw up trying to prove your point. You don't have one You have no leg to stand on.
You sign away your right to alot of things. When you join the military. if things were as you say Than there would be no Military Police no Military prisons. No Jag

You have no understanding of how any of our governments work. That is why his case will be heard by a Military Tribunal not a court.

Don't open your mouth unless you know what your talking about. You don't know any thing lol.. and are arguments are as sad as you are.

Our military legal system dates back to before what you would think of as the united states we had our Law before our government got out of the Articles of confederation. Know your history!

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.
Abu Ghraib is alive and well. Now those guys were TRAITORS!

What a crock! This man is NOT a traitor...he chose to let We The People know some of the dirty little secrets our government is involved in, god forbid he shouldn't have. All governments are so paranoid that when their truths come out...and believe me eventually they will...that it is "ammo" for other governments in the world. Try using honesty as an approach and people like this kid wouldn't be needed.

If he did threaten to commit suicide...there are other methods for his safety than humiliation...then, humiliation is the only method these military animals understand...

No they were not. they did not commit treason mistreatment of POW is a far crime from getting people killed. The dirty little secrets that came out would have still come out if he had done the Right thing. The problem is he did the wrong thing.

its not humiliation until his lawyer decided to plaster the story all over the news to gain sympathy for him. sounds like the news a new lawyer or just have him shot already either way works for me.

Under the laws of the UCMJ Article:93 forbids “cruelty toward, or oppression or maltreatment of, any person
subject to [the] orders [or the accused].

There are also, as I stated, other means of protecting a prisoner if they fear for his safety.

Oh...and something else, I have a lot of "hobbies" among them reading about different kinds of "laws"....

I'm sure you know this...but maybe others that do not will be educated:

The UCMJ actually resulted from the confluence of two factors. First was underlying dissatisfaction with some existing practices of military justice, especially as related to courts‐martial appeals. Second was the unification of the armed forces into one Department of Defense “establishment” in 1947–48. This step rendered retention of traditional systems such as the army's Articles of War and the navy's Articles for the Government of the Navy impractical and unnecessary.

Read more:www.answers.com...

Everyone has their right to what they choose to believe...just hope that you remember you are a human being first with rights and self beliefs, that is something the Government and Military CAN NOT take from any of us...it feels good to be a "part" of something...just don't let it steal your soul and make you forget who you really are, my friend.

~as above...so below~

Our own President is friends with a known Terrorist, yet he lies and says, "I barely know him". Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, and Jodie Evans (worked on Obama's Presidential Campaign) are part of Code Pink (anti-American, pro-terrorist, and within the "Muslim Brotherhood" movement).

Our previous President has done far worse to America in my opinion, and our previous Vice President is hardly the Angel when it comes to Iraq or the GOM fiasco (barely covering the tip of what this man is involved in).

I much prefer the truth and get our boys home. We have no business in other Countries; our business is getting America put back to a respectable level if there is such a thing.

I highly doubt America will survive without heroes who are willing to step up to the plate. Shouldn't the fact that our current Veterans are being mislabeled as "Personality Disorder", only so that benefits do not have to paid, show us enough about how bad things are with our current Government?

Let's not be blind to the fact that the boy hurt the bad people with nothing more than the truth if he did do what he said he did based on what Lamo alleges. If what he released was so damning how did a low ranking clerk get a hold of it? Besides, who is to say that Wikileaks got anything from Manning and not from some other source? Obviously if a Pvt. can access that kind of stuff than anyone could have done it. Personally I hope it blows up in their faces over and over again until we do get this stopped once and for all.

Those involved knew what they were doing was wrong but I highly doubt they ever thought they would be exposed. That doesn't justify the means! It is shameful what was exposed, downright shameful, and yet there is far worse in this Fabulous Nightmare we call America!

Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.
Abu Ghraib is alive and well. Now those guys were TRAITORS!

What a crock! This man is NOT a traitor...he chose to let We The People know some of the dirty little secrets our government is involved in, god forbid he shouldn't have. All governments are so paranoid that when their truths come out...and believe me eventually they will...that it is "ammo" for other governments in the world. Try using honesty as an approach and people like this kid wouldn't be needed.

If he did threaten to commit suicide...there are other methods for his safety than humiliation...then, humiliation is the only method these military animals understand...

No they were not. they did not commit treason mistreatment of POW is a far crime from getting people killed. The dirty little secrets that came out would have still come out if he had done the Right thing. The problem is he did the wrong thing.

its not humiliation until his lawyer decided to plaster the story all over the news to gain sympathy for him. sounds like the news a new lawyer or just have him shot already either way works for me.

Under the laws of the UCMJ Article:93 forbids “cruelty toward, or oppression or maltreatment of, any person
subject to [the] orders [or the accused].

There are also, as I stated, other means of protecting a prisoner if they fear for his safety.

Oh...and something else, I have a lot of "hobbies" among them reading about different kinds of "laws"....

I'm sure you know this...but maybe others that do not will be educated:

The UCMJ actually resulted from the confluence of two factors. First was underlying dissatisfaction with some existing practices of military justice, especially as related to courts‐martial appeals. Second was the unification of the armed forces into one Department of Defense “establishment” in 1947–48. This step rendered retention of traditional systems such as the army's Articles of War and the navy's Articles for the Government of the Navy impractical and unnecessary.

Read more:www.answers.com...

Everyone has their right to what they choose to believe...just hope that you remember you are a human being first with rights and self beliefs, that is something the Government and Military CAN NOT take from any of us...it feels good to be a "part" of something...just don't let it steal your soul and make you forget who you really are, my friend.

~as above...so below~

edit on 9-3-2011 by Holly N.R.A. because: (no reason given)

Sorry I don't see how he is being mistreated so he has to stand naked for 7 hours? hell any one who has ever joined the military will tell you they have done that at m.e.p.s while I agree with you for the most part there are other ways that it could have been handled better.

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by groingrinder

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Reaper2137
media black out? lol.. what the media tells you is whats going on lol.. I know I've been their there isn't much going on were almost out of iraq and were still dug into afgan what else is new. kill the kid and get it over with

yes murder him. Thats always the answer.

That is what you get for treason he had things he could have done.. he didn't its on him you don't join the military commit treason and than think your going to be safe in a time of WAR. Don't do the Crime if you cannot do the Punishment. he is getting it pretty light but bottom line he should be shot by firing line or hung or both.

You let people think they can comment Treason and get away with it your sending the wrong message to your troops.

Never mind that both wars are ILLEGAL. Nobody from Iraq or Afghanistan has attacked our country. What have they done to deserve our bullets, bombs, rape, torture, and hate? Show me the attack on American ground that gives us the right to wage war on those people.

Which has nothing to do with the case of manning weather they were illegal or not he did the crime now he has to pay for it.

It is not a crime to expose government corruption and war crimes. Justice should be handed down from top to bottom. That is how justice works.

What is being done to Manning is born from ressentiment.

Originally posted by smthngmssnghr

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by groingrinder

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Reaper2137
media black out? lol.. what the media tells you is whats going on lol.. I know I've been their there isn't much going on were almost out of iraq and were still dug into afgan what else is new. kill the kid and get it over with

yes murder him. Thats always the answer.

That is what you get for treason he had things he could have done.. he didn't its on him you don't join the military commit treason and than think your going to be safe in a time of WAR. Don't do the Crime if you cannot do the Punishment. he is getting it pretty light but bottom line he should be shot by firing line or hung or both.

You let people think they can comment Treason and get away with it your sending the wrong message to your troops.

Never mind that both wars are ILLEGAL. Nobody from Iraq or Afghanistan has attacked our country. What have they done to deserve our bullets, bombs, rape, torture, and hate? Show me the attack on American ground that gives us the right to wage war on those people.

Which has nothing to do with the case of manning weather they were illegal or not he did the crime now he has to pay for it.

It is not a crime to expose government corruption and war crimes. Justice should be handed down from top to bottom. That is how justice works.

What is being done to Manning is born from ressentiment.

edit on 12-3-2011 by smthngmssnghr because: (no reason given)

no its not when done the right way thru proper channels it is a crime when you jump the chain of command and go very very far out side of it. He signed a contract and more he had a job which he signed paper work for even more rules than the average soldier. he broke those rules and now he is being punished for what he did.

all this still would have come out had he did the right thing.

reply to post by Reaper2137


Your either paid to post here or in need of medical help.

All of the dirt we discovered needs to be known and needs to be stopped. Bottom line. Not gonna argue with you about it. This crap IS NOT being done in my name. And I damn well have a right to know how my tax dollars are being spent. People like you scare me, your completely obedient to something very corrupt. If you ask me, its the people like you who are the real traitors!

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

Your either paid to post here or in need of medical help.

All of the dirt we discovered needs to be known and needs to be stopped. Bottom line. Not gonna argue with you about it. This crap IS NOT being done in my name. And I damn well have a right to know how my tax dollars are being spent. People like you scare me, your completely obedient to something very corrupt. If you ask me, its the people like you who are the real traitors!

you need to re read what I posted I said thru the proper channels it would have come out. by jumping out of the chain of command = treason plain and simple and no I'm not completely obedient to any thing. people like him get people killed.

It's people like you who have no ideal how are military works and last I check your tax dollars don't pay for any thing since were so far in the red lol..

reply to post by Reaper2137


So let me get this right, you're saying it's "good" to automatically follow orders and regulations even though you might as an individual feel the moral need to disobey them ? I think that came up in the nuremburg trials but that arguement didn't work out so well for those that used it.

I don't know maybe i've missed your point

Oh boohoo the little traitor had to strip down for the night. Well lets see, they could've 1) let the idiot hang himself if he hinted at suicide and embarrass the little piece of . . . . or 2) could've went in an beat the (blank) out of him. I think they showed remarkable restraint.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

So let me get this right, you're saying it's "good" to automatically follow orders and regulations even though you might as an individual feel the moral need to disobey them ? I think that came up in the nuremburg trials but that arguement didn't work out so well for those that used it.

I don't know maybe i've missed your point

This just shows a lack of knowledge of how the military works. I said he could have and should have given every thing to the provost marshal
In the United States Army and United States Marine Corps, the senior military police officer is the Provost Marshal General (PMG) (Army) or Provost Marshal (USMC). The PMG was a post that was reinstated in 2003, having being abolished for 29 years. The PMG is in charge the United States Army Military Police Corps, U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command (CID) and United States Army Corrections Command (ACC) policy and procedures from an office in The Pentagon.

The senior MP officer at the theater level and for each garrison is known as a provost marshal. In European garrisons, the provost marshal is called the Director of Emergency Services, responsible for the provision of fire as well as law enforcement services.

We in the Army have our own chain of command that is out side yours.

The United States Constitution authorized the creation of a system of military justice. Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution permits the U.S. Congress to "make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces." Congress has issued these rules in the form of the now-superseded Articles of War and, at present, the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

The UCMJ is federal law, found in (Title 10 United States Code, Chapter 47) and implemented by the Manual for Courts-Martial, an executive order issued by the President of the United States in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief of the United States armed forces.

Its given to us thru the constitution if any one would like to know lol.. he has his chance to go thru the proper channels and did not. what is happening to him is what should happen he is not being disrespected nor mistreated.

reply to post by Reaper2137


Is there a proper channel for leaking information in the US army ? I'm guessing that his complaint was that not enough information about the war was getting out so he took it upon himself to release his data. I'm fairly sure his commanding officer wouldn't take his complaint seriously so what other option did he have. Asuming that his motivations were based on a moral principle he has a right beyond military doctrine to share his concerns with the world.

Also you said he was being treated fairly but US state department spokesman PJ Crowley seems to disagree with that notion seeing as he's just resigned over his recent statements over pfc Bradley Manning treatment.

Personally i think he was right to do what he did but i am assuming he did it for moral reason rather than attention seeking - if im wrong then he is a fool but the info's still illuminating

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

Is there a proper channel for leaking information in the US army ? I'm guessing that his complaint was that not enough information about the war was getting out so he took it upon himself to release his data. I'm fairly sure his commanding officer wouldn't take his complaint seriously so what other option did he have. Asuming that his motivations were based on a moral principle he has a right beyond military doctrine to share his concerns with the world.

Also you said he was being treated fairly but US state department spokesman PJ Crowley seems to disagree with that notion seeing as he's just resigned over his recent statements over pfc Bradley Manning treatment.

Personally i think he was right to do what he did but i am assuming he did it for moral reason rather than attention seeking - if im wrong then he is a fool but the info's still illuminating

Once again lol.. its ok your not in the military so I'll try and clear it up for you.

Remember when I talked about the provost marshal? Well there is an open door policy in the Army to were if you think that your unit will treat you badly for telling on them when you think they did some thing wrong.

The provost marshal is there to make sure that you can not be harmed or any thing else bad happen to you. The Army has a channel for War crimes as well as any thing else its Called Army C.I.D or military police. There are just like normal cops and FBI in the case of C.I.D

They would have reviewed the information taken it through their chain of command and all the way up thru the chain of command who would in turn take it to one of congress defence panels and so on and so forth.

just pointing out that it still would have come full circle. and been out to the public he did some thing wrong and leaked it to a out side source. when it would have been better to give it to any number of groups with in the federal government.

reply to post by Reaper2137


You're right I'm not in the military, thankfully. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

You're right I'm not in the military, thankfully. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I'm not disagreeing with you or saying your wrong just trying to teach a bit about how our military works is all I didn't mean to insult you if I did.

reply to post by smthngmssnghr


This is a disgrace, and just goes to show that the legal system in the US is seriously flawed. After all those months, he's still not convicted of anything...yet has to spend time in a tiny room naked like an animal. What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"??

Let's have a look:

- US media: seriously bad and biased
- US legal system: Gitmo...do I have to say more?
- US politicians: now work for corporations and NOT citizens

Good times