Bradley Manning could face death: For what?

reply to post by nonnez


Bull, ill agree that not all americans are bad, ive no problems with them. But, for example, war in iraq. Who did it help? Wasnt the people of iraq anyway. Everybody has a fair idea why they went there, short answer.....oil. Its things like this that make people dislike america.

reply to post by RustyShakleford92


This is illegal? you forget so soon about Watergate?
yes the man is a hero, but yet again with a glass ceiling at about 2 inch high, even a mouse would hit his head on the rules and regulations of this international fascist state that has been forced into place

Originally posted by GovtFlu

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by GovtFlu

 

He is subject to the UCMJ, not civilian based courts.
His crimes is hirer in status due to being a military member.

I didn't mention which court.. he is still innocent.

Wouldn't surprise me if Manning ended up in Fed court one day tho. I'm sure a Kangaroo military court will sentence him to die.. then some politicians pet Federal prosecutor crony being groomed for a higher purpose will yank Manning off death row and file dozens of federal charges.

He will not go before a Fed court. He will go before a military tribunal.
How is he innocent?
I think maybe more people need to read up on UCMJ laws and policies before opinions are slung around as fact.

This is just wrong, this is a young kid who thought he was doing the right thing.

Bradley has been held 23 out of 24 hours a day in solitary confinement for over 280 days, apparently for the last two days they striped him naked for 23 hours and he has been told this will happen again tomorrow (apparently this has come through his lawyer). Maybe they are trying to kill him of natural causes, sure sounds like it.

The last picture I saw he looks like he is suffering from malnutrition and muscle wasted.

Does anyone know when the trial will be?

Also when is the trial for project rendition, will that be at the hague? it is a war crime to kidnap people around the world and to take them to secret prisons and tortue them, isn't it? or do they just do a little investigation and not worry about little stuff like that?

"I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand ith him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong"

Abraham Lincoln

reply to post by Liquesence


Who am I to determine what is labeled this or that, classified etc? For the sake of argument lets assume I have "Classification Authority" over certain technologies, or projects. There are aspects of applied-science that to many are very obscure. One thing I can do reasonably well is see the connections, and a "thing, system, device" on the other end. For example, a paper on "Boundary layer surface tension" may give me a way to reduce friction on subs and ships. But that in the end is small potato's. What do I not want someone to get there hands on? How about codes that allow an enemy to access military/diplomatic/intelligence communications? Or the secret of how a very advanced technology works, or an older one like stealth. It cost's Tens if not Hundreds of Billions of $ and sometimes a decade to come up w/something, like stealth technology. We found that secret in an obscure Russian scientific paper by they way, but we had to do the grunt work. Stealth came as close as WAS possible to render every air defense system near obsolete, in one fell swoop. Motivation to spy on ones country? Maybe your native country sucks. Surprisingly few people recruited (though this is anecdotal) actually spy for the US only for the cash. Even if it's JUST the money, which seems a consistent pathology of US traitors I should add, it can cost more then just cash but could be a potential disaster in a military confrontation if certain names, dates, codes and a host of other areas are compromised. John Walker USN, assigned a to work in a category called "CRYPTO" among THE MOST SENSITIVE "stuff" of any nation gave the Russians what are called "key lists", that gives you the "key" to read our codes, we know and even confirmed by the Russians to a degree after the cold war, had there been a war around 19**, we would have lost. Meaning we would have run out of all but strategic nuclear options. Thats WW-3. Important enough for you? Aldrich Ames (CIA) blew our whole fricken spy network in the USSR that being his "desk" You want to know what really enraged me about that? Try to use your imagination as to how those people suffered. Former KGB General Olig Kaluegin (name most likely misspelled) stated openly on TV that he considered the tactics and "ways" of the KGB, at least when he was a spook in the US (For the USSR), as "worse then the Gestapo". Thats hard for even me to imagine.

Or take a diplomatic cable labeled "SECRET". The kid who "gave it up" to Wikileaks had that access level. It might have something to do with an observation of another nations leader, or top commander in a country is say a fruit loop. As in unpredictable, psychotic, an addiction problem. Maybe he's a child molester. People in country need to be blunt and to the point with Washington. The agencies and administration need facts. Even the ugly ones. They need people to open up. Who the hell is going to trust us with speaking with them under these circumstances? No one, if we can't keep something as basic as diplomatic traffic fricken diplomatic? The main goal of both diplomats and spy's starts and ends with protecting the country. Wars can happen for many reasons but the thing that keeps so many up nights is a war thats A MISTAKE. I lost count how many "mistakes" of that kind we came so close to. Actually most information thats very useful is Open Source. Newspapers, and like that Russian paper technical journals. The Russians who made the mistake of considering everything secret fortunately for us some how missed that one.

I said before "Secrecy" has often been used to prevent embarrassment, or for some "tacky, cheap" objective. But publishing the order of battle in places like Iraq (and NO I don't think we should have gone into Iraq, but thats not the point) which the Wikileaks group did is dangerous to our troops, and requires a lot of changes on our part, and that takes time. There is a known saying by a former Secretary of State who closed the US Cryptological service after WW-1, what was called the "Black Chamber" it's above desks, water coolers, inside gym lockers next to pictures of the pretty ladies, everywhere. It is the apex of stupid, and simply was "Gentlemen do not read other persons mail" What a moron. It's not the "gentlemen" among us that I worry about, but those who are not. Thats why we have secrets.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
My question is why did he let himself get caught? I mean seriously, he is involved in information security he knows how not to get caught, why did he do it. That really pisses me off. He coulda got away scot free.

We do not know whether or not he is actually guilty of any crime, whether or not he actually did this and then was "caught" is still yet to be seen. For all we know he was uninvolved. The national news media and the pentagon tell us it was him, but implying that they could not lie/be lied to is silly. This is what due process of the law is intended for, did Manning do any of what he is alleged to have done?

We'll never know because it's clear that he's not going to get an actual fair trial, he's already convicted as far as the public and the military are concerned, and nothing is going to change that.

For instance the Pentagon may have no idea who did it, but wanted to immediately catch a scapegoat to intimidate others into not doing it. Manning could be 100% innocent and he could be being used as a tool for the government to say, "We will catch you!"

Even though the real hero is still an unknown face. It could also be bait (the investigation is ongoing, and this is cited as the reason why Federal employees can't access wikileaks material on federal computers), since Manning will go down in history as the leaker this way, instead of the (possible) real leaker's.

Sure, he is going to be convicted and probably murdered, but this doesn't mean he's actually guilty.

Looks like I'm not the only one... (see links below).

I think the whole world is disgusted by the treatment of this young lad, I think viewing all that information must have really freaked him out, I think this is a huge faliure of the US military for probably not giving him enough training to be able to deal with stuff he saw, they should get him into onto a hospital ward and treat the kid humanely.

Anger at Mannings 'naked' punishment

Bradley Manning and the Stench of US Hypocrisy

Anger at Mannings naked punishment

and they should do it now before he dies.

Retired air force Lieutenant Colonel James Wilbur Fondren got a job working Federal Civil Service for the Pentagon as the deputy director of the US Pacific Command's Washington Liaison Office.

He got caught selling secrets to China. His punishment?

36 months in a low security prison. He gets paid to work in the prison, even gets paid overtime. He has a commissary to shop at, gets internet access, watches cable tv. Has rec areas to play in. He gets to have visitors and gets private skin time to have a little fun with his female friends.


Notice how Officers get punished....and how enlisted get punished in America?

Manning should be in that low security prison with Colonel Fondren. 36 months max. That's all Colonel Fondren got....and he REALLLY WAS selling secrets to the enemy for $$$$$$$$.

reply to post by Pervius


Being an Officer does have its privileges.

As for Manning not doing it? Isn't he on record with his lawyer admitting that he did it by stating he new it was wrong to leak the info?

Again, I have to say wow; the ignorance and obsession speak volumes. I have to say that I see so many strong arguments about Manning that I am rather excited to participate in the discussion. I can hardly contain myself, however, I am very incapable at this moment in time to evaluate and respond to them with their deserved respect. BTW, I never stated in ANY way, shape, or form . . . that I represented all Americans . . . your post . . . in particular, is deserving of my full, utmost, and well researched attention! When more able . . . and after consideration, I fully intend to respond to your apparent wisdom.

μη ζεν, λέει ότι ξέρετε λίγο

reply to post by macman


"He will not go before a Fed court. He will go before a military tribunal. How is he innocent? I think maybe more people need to read up on UCMJ laws and policies before opinions are slung around as fact. "

Ok, you win. My crystal ball is in the shop so I will defer to your future telling skills and accept you know everything that's going to happen.

"How is he innocent?", uh, well, because even applying the draconian UCMJ, which I'm well aware of from "Captain's mast", Manning has been "proven" guilty of nothing.

Manning is facing what are called "charges".. Google define:charges

Defined: "charge - blame for, make a claim of wrongdoing or misbehavior against"

Govt officials, clowns who call themselves politicians, and establishment media lackeys are epic liars.. they can "claim" and "blame" all day, it doesn't make anything they say true...

reply to post by GovtFlu


He is on record with his lawyer stating that he knew what he was doing was wrong.
Captains mast is slightly different from UCMJ trial. Come on, we both know that. Yes they are similar.
Yes, he is innocent until proven guilty. I am waiting for the trial to start.
Now, if he is sentenced without trial, then we have a major issue.
If he proceeds through the trial process, and found guilty or not guilty I will accept it either way.

Just like to point out that by "the letter of the law" here in the UK it is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British monarch upside-down (which I have done).... should I rot in the tower of London or have my head chopped off?

To anyone who still supports Private Bradley Manning for his extremely courageous act and for what he stands for, please view the following articles and do what you KNOW is right. For those who are up-to-date and support Bradley Manning: Why should we ever deserve to live in a better world to raise our children in if we don't even support someone who has done what most of us only wish to have the guts for?
I for one would have done the exact same thing and even more IF I was in his shoes.
Even if it would cause me a lot of suffering.
Even if it would be the cause of my execution.
Even if it would make me go down in the history books as a "traitor".
Paying the price of my life is nothing if it means bringing the people who have, and are continuing to rape our planet and civilization for their own selfish desires, to justice, and mark my words: Justice Will Be Served! Be it now, in ten years, in 50 years- It will happen.

Enough ranting. Please read the following articles [NY-Times - Salon.com - Wired.com - Washington Post (Further read)----> Amnesty International USA] and please TAKE ACTION!
Please send the e-mail from that page, it's the least we can do.

IT--

reply to post by edog11


State Dept Spokesman Slams DoD for Treatment of WikiLeaks Prisoner