The MoD and its errosion of the British Armed Services

www.flightglobal.com...

This is just another nail in the coffin for the British Armed Services. With the global situation as unstable as it is and the continual reduction of the British military, I really do not see how we will be able to meet our commitments. We have no carrier force, our Harriers are now in mothballs, 2 Tornado Sqaudrons to go. No Nimrod fleet. Oh, by the way, please correct me if I am wrong, but are these the same Tornados that were meant to cover the anti-ship role left open by the Nimrod retirement?

5,000 personnel to be cut from the RAF, over 100 trainee pilots. I am sure this is not the end either.
Please, someone enlighten me as to the future of Britain.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


It could turn out that we don't start invading countries willy nilly.

Maybe the US will turn out to be the boss it has always been since Blair.

That coupled with other policies ...

Ask the queen to stop wedding preparations and save Britain?

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


There is only one way I see this going and that is we will need protection from a stronger world power. that power is the USA which is trying to become the be all and end all of power on the planet, in fact the US government probably ordered the dumbing down of our armed forces. If I have offended any US citizens I havn't meant too, this is just my opinion. Your government is there to protect the institution not the constitution, just look at 9/11 and the so called plane hitting the Pentagon. If it can lie to its own people it can lie to the world about its intentions to be a one world power, the one world order.

Hopefully other countries will follow suit. minimal forces in every country means minimal fuss and minimal war. lets just stay out of everyone elses business and use what little millitary forces we have left to keep everyone else out of ours. We need to help our own country not others.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


It seems to me shoestring, sticky tape and a blue peter badge has always been the mainstay of British service men and women.. and down through the ages been screwed by those in power for political gain at times of economic distress.

Britain has been through this process before.. 90% layoffs in the services during the economic distress of the mid 19th century, a move that bled into the Swing riots/Chartist movements that brought reform (albeit limited) to Britain.

I kinda think we are going through the same kind of reform process.. albeit at the early stages, with the Gov doing all they can to be the agents of reform THEY want (hence Clegg calling for a reform bill equivalent to the Great reform bill of the 1830s) as yet again the Military bare the brunt of it..

But going on previous examples the services seem to come through the mess admirably, and I have great confidence they will do the same this time around.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


I hope that you are right. Times have changed since then. Obtaining manpower and equipment is not so easy anymore.

It is sad indeed. Our military is of such a high standard and our soldiers are incredibly professional. Our navy and RAF are fantastic also. We should be encouraging more to join with jobs stil being scarce in the country. The military also gives training to personel who can then take these skills to be used as a civillian, putting something back into our economy and helping people become skilled workers.

Before the start of WW2 the British military had been reduced and we were a lot weaker than people ever knew.. Our aircraft were still Bi-planes and equipment levels were poor as Germany decided to invade countries in the late 30's........ Not saying that that will happen again (I actually like the German people) BUT recent world issues have illustrated a NEED to have mobile, swift and effective forces to help our citizens in trouble (Even if , as I Believe, those Oil employees earning tax free salaries - should contribute to their rescues !!)

What really Disturbs me is that I keep hearing 'there is no money left' yet we GIVE £270 Million per year to India to help that nations people when the Indian Government then spends £750 million on the Indian Space Program....... hm Priorities ??? There are more Indian CASH millionaires than there are the equivalent British Cash millionaires YET we support them with donations ???

Big Business and my very own BarclaysBank use every which way to AVOID paying taxes so as to reward their share holders and Big (deserved ?) earners / employees......

STAR ? Footballers Elbow other players (all in the name of goodwill in sport ??) and others 'shoot' trainees on the training pitch ?????( illegal ??) and they both WALK AWAY and still earn 100's of 1000's of pounds per week..

We still pay stupid sums to supposed 'Celebrity' and stars on Film and TV and YET they will ALL EXPECT to be kept SAFE by our Government and Armed Forces............

WHEN WE WILL ALL WAKE UP and stop this stupidity !!!!!!!!!

We need to stop this ridiculous culture and start to do something about it, wether it be NOT WATCH Man United or fecking Chelsea, STOP worshipping those stupid little overpaid sports people or celebrities !!!!

WE ALL need to take responsibility for ourselves and the SOCIETY we live in and quickly ...

PDUK

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


Totally agree with what you have said, if a freind stole lots of money off us and blew it all in a casino would we then bail him out when he came back to us and wanted more money from us, its the same thing on a much larger scale. In the end we all complain but suffer from that well known syndrome the ostrich effect. Time we got our heads out of the sand and screamed HELL NO, NO MORE! Before someone says you get your chance to have a say in the elections, I think they do not count, it is in house where the elected are chosen, last elections thousands did not have a say because the doors closed while people were waiting to vote, no one complained about that.

I find it amazing that a story / post here which is of great importance to OUR national security ATTRACTS less interest than a deformed baby post or some other NON story........

Priorities i guess ??



PDUK

It's quite sickening that we're being left open like this due to the "cuts."

But really, is it surprising to anyone? Look at how soldiers are treated when they are wounded. Look at the complete lack of support they receive when they reenter the civilian world. This government has it in for the forces, no doubt about it. All the wasted investments in Nimrod and whatever else they want to get rid of, they're needing their heads looked at. It does make you wonder if they have been asked to dissolve the UK armed services by... others.

And where is the furore?!?! People complain, and nothing gets done because this is swept under the carpet. We've turned into a nation of mugs and pushovers. I try my best to keep these issues at the forefront with people I know, and I get a reaction of apathy! Not just on this issue, but cuts in general.

The mode of thought seems to be "Okay, we need to do what they tell us to do. We have no other options."
Well, you're not going to have other options if you lie back and take it.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


The Tornado in RAF service hasn't carried any anti-ship missiles since 1999. The Sea Eagle anti-ship missile was withdrawn from UK service in 1999 without replacement.

www.publications.parliament.uk...

TJ

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


Maybe we have space based weapons and don't need such a big defensive force? I'm being serious!! BTW....

On a positive note IMO, any revolution in surveillance UK would need the Army on the peoples side (the cuts and demoralisation may achieve this) tied in with all the cuts to the Police force and hopefully the ingredients 'may' be nearly there....!!!!

From what I can gather since the Labour government passed a law saying that parents couldn't chastise their children, and that teachers would be sacked if they even raised their voices to unruly kids, ex forces soldiers ar now being asked to enter are warzone schools as teachers..! If this corrupt government Isn't stopped soon it will leave this country undefended and open to attack... When you attack your own people and its ideals Isn't that called treason!?
One thing is for sure, if another Falklands happened tomorrow the UK could do absolutely nothing about it...

reply to post by CholmondleyWarner


The difference is that the Argentina doesn't have the capability to retake the islands and they know it. The garrison on the islands is of sufficient strength to oppose aggression from the current Argentine forces. They have to take RAF Mount Pleasant intact in order to support and invasion. They have no amphibious forces in strength to make and support a landing. Argentina still has no solution to UK nuclear powered hunter killer submarines. Back in 1982 the Argentine Navy retreated back to territorial waters due to the UK subs.

Remember this is democratic Argentina. No Argentine administration is going to drag the country into such a situation they know that they can't pull off. It would be political suicide. It would take a military coup and months of preparation in order to get their forces back up to mount an invasion. Any prolonged large scale military exercises are going to be met with re-enforcement of the islands by air bridge.

This isn't 1982 when there was only a small number of Marines to oppose their invasion. Argentina knows this and simply wouldn't be able to handle the losses that would be imposed on them if they tried to take RAF Mount Pleasant. The airbase would be key to any invasion and it has to be taken intact for them to create an air head and re-enforce. It would take major investment and expansion of the Argentine forces in order for them to pull it off and that is money that Argentina hasn't got.

TJ

reply to post by tommyjo

I agree with you... I kind of meant that if the same political situation that exists now existed back in 1982 in the Thatcher years then we couldn't have done anything about it.

Originally posted by invetro
It's quite sickening that we're being left open like this due to the "cuts."

It's not as dramatic as being made out, all these cuts. We're slightly exposed for the next few years but come 2020 we'll have most of our bang back. People forget that throughout history, the British military has always done things on a shoestring. We built the worlds largest ever Empire on the cheap.

Originally posted by invetro
But really, is it surprising to anyone? Look at how soldiers are treated when they are wounded. Look at the complete lack of support they receive when they reenter the civilian world.

Do they really? Because the forces have several dedicated hospitals for the wounded, the NHS provides fantastic care for them also and there are fantastic programmes for those leaving the services. What exactly are you referring to?

Originally posted by invetro
This government has it in for the forces, no doubt about it.

No, but we have to make cuts due the massive overspending of the previous Government. I coudl rattle on for ages about how exactly the Labour Government spunked your tax money up the wall if you want. We're kind of left with no choice but to make cuts.

You do know that when Labour left office, we were coughing out twice the Defence budget in interest payments on the national debt, don't you? And when Tony took office in 1997 he had a £10 Billion budget surplus....

Thanks Labour for the current situation with their social engineering, jobs for votes (doubling of the civil service to create client voters reliant on the Government for their livelihood) and making 50% of the nations economy dependent on Government spending. Like I said, I can go on if you like.

Originally posted by invetro
All the wasted investments in Nimrod and whatever else they want to get rid of, they're needing their heads looked at. It does make you wonder if they have been asked to dissolve the UK armed services by... others.

It's hardly a dissolution and you're being massively over dramatic about it. I agree that Nimrod should have been kept, however. But we have some prgrammes coming down the line that could make the Nimrod obsolete anyway.

Originally posted by invetro
And where is the furore?!?! People complain, and nothing gets done because this is swept under the carpet. We've turned into a nation of mugs and pushovers. I try my best to keep these issues at the forefront with people I know, and I get a reaction of apathy! Not just on this issue, but cuts in general.

The cuts are necessary and with the massive amount of waste one could argue they are long overdue. Media hype based on nothing and Labour run councils using them as a political tool do not help.

Why is it my local council (Tory run) has made no job losses and made efficiency savings as requested, but nearby Labour councils are sacking workers in the hundreds but keeping their Executive pay and bonuses nice and high? Because it is a way to ensure that those jobless view the Government as at fault and therefore vote for Labour next time round, despite the fact it was a Labour council that laid them off

Of course, it's just a thought, but you can always apply for Statehood with the US.

Instantly, you'll have all kinds of military, carrier battle groups, and so on.

I think Canada has dibs on becoming the 51st State, but not if you Brits jump quickly enough!

One, big, happy family.

Originally posted by FarArcher
Of course, it's just a thought, but you can always apply for Statehood with the US.

Instantly, you'll have all kinds of military, carrier battle groups, and so on.

I think Canada has dibs on becoming the 51st State, but not if you Brits jump quickly enough!

One, big, happy family.

Thanks for the kind offer but its bad enough being # on by the British elite, I dont need the American elite doing likewise, especially considering how big you lot are!