Pentagon VIDEO Battle - Perspective 77 vs National Security Alert - 9/11 Pentagon Attack

reply to post by Ligon


Great information Ligon - thanks for posting the correction and pics of the East Dock.

Originally posted by Soloist
We're talking about mundane details of the event people are trying to remember years after 9/11. Some people say it was banking left some say right. Some say it was flying fast, some say it was slow.

However all that were in position to see all claim the plane hit the building.

No one saw the plane "fly over" the Pentagon, nor is this the case in the Double Tree video.

You should really watch the CIT video ( NATIONAL SECURITY ALERT - 9/11 PENTAGON ATTACK ) before making comments like this. Your comments are simply incorrect so either you're purposefully trying to derail the thread or you haven't watched the video.

* The people interviewed were interviewed just weeks after 9/11 and were recorded in the government agencies mentioned in the OP, it states this clearly in the first few minutes of National Sevurity Alert.
* The placement of the plane is NOT a mundane detail.
* All people interviewed who saw it bank, ALL saw it bank right.
* A Pentagon policeman, at the East loading dock, saw the plane fly over.
* Most of the people could NOT see the explosion site (alleged impact site) or were running or diving for cover.

just FYI - the DoubleTree video DOES NOT help your case gosh there was an explosion but no airplane there... uh ya, that's the way I see it too!

Originally posted by trebor451
Attention to detail is something long lost on Truthers,

and your attention to objectivity obviously.

I will assume all these following people are lying as well as Pentagon employee's and all the Mexican landscapers and yard workers??... They are ALL CIA/FBI agents? LMAO.




"On a Metro train to National Airport, Allen Cleveland looked out the window to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. 'I thought, "There's no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,"' he said. Before he could process that thought, he saw 'a huge mushroom cloud. The lady next to me was in absolute hysterics.'"
- "Our Plane Is Being Hijacked." Washington Post, 12 Sep 2001


"I was supposed to have been going to the Pentagon Tuesday morning at about 11:00am (EDT) and was getting ready, and thank goodness I wasn't going to be going until later. It was so shocking, I was listening to the news on what had happened in New York, and just happened to look out the window because I heard a low flying plane and then I saw it hit the Pentagon. It happened so fast... it was in the air one moment and in the building the next..."
- "U.S. Under Attack: Your Eyewitness Accounts." BBC News, 14 Sep 2001


"As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead. ... Seconds before the Pentagon came into view a huge black cloud of smoke rose above the road ahead. I came around the bend and there was the Pentagon billowing smoke, flames and debris, blackened on one side and with a gaping hole where the airplane had hit it."
- "Eyewitness at the Pentagon." Human Events, 17 Sep 2001


"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002


"USAToday.com Editor Joel Sucherman saw it all: an American Airlines jetliner fly left to right across his field of vision as he commuted to work Tuesday morning. It was highly unusual. The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. 'My first thought was he's not going to make it across the river to [Reagan] National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction,' Sucherman said. 'It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angle—almost like a heat-seeking missile was locked onto its target and staying dead on course.'"
- "Journalist Witnesses Pentagon Crash." eWeek.com, 13 Sep 2001


"'I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings, went right there and slammed into the Pentagon,' eyewitness Mike Walter said of the plane that hit the military complex. 'Huge explosion, great ball of fire, smoke started billowing out, and then it was just chaos on the highway as people either tried to move around the traffic and go down either forward or backwards,' he said."
- "Witnesses and Leaders on Terrorist Attacks." CNN, 11 Sep 2001


"'(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious target,' said Fred Gaskins, who was driving to his job as a national editor at USA Today near the Pentagon when the plane passed about 150 feet overhead. 'It was flying very smoothly and calmly, without any hint that anything was wrong.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001


"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001


"'I saw the tail of a large airliner. ... It plowed right into the Pentagon," said an Associated Press Radio reporter who witnessed the crash. 'There is billowing black smoke.'"
- "America's Morning of Terror." ChannelOne.com, 2001


"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001


"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001


"A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "'It added power on its way in,' he said. 'The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001


"Steve Eiden, a truck driver, had picked up his cargo that Tuesday morning in Williamsburg, Va., and was en route to New York City and witnessed the aftermath. ... He took the Highway 95 loop in the area of the Pentagon and thought it odd to see a plane in restricted airspace, thinking to himself it was odd that it was flying so low. 'You could almost see the people in the windows,' he said as he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke. Then he saw the Pentagon on fire, and an announcement came over the radio that the Pentagon had been hit."
- "Sept. 11, the Day America Changed." The Baxter Bulletin, 2001


"Traffic is normally slow right around the Pentagon as the road winds and we line up to cross the 14th Street bridge heading into the District of Columbia. I don’t know what made me look up, but I did and I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating. My first thought was just 'No, no, no, no,' because it was obvious the plane was not heading to nearby Reagan National Airport. It was going to crash."
- "September 11 Remembered." University Week, 4 Oct 2001


"Father Stephen McGraw was driving to a graveside service at Arlington National Cemetery the morning of Sept. 11, when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. 'I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars.' McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. 'The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. I saw it crash into the building,' he said. 'My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression,' he said. 'There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.'"
- "Pentagon Crash Eyewitness Comforted Victims." MDW News Service, 28 Sep 2001


"'I glanced up just at the point where the plane was going into the building,' said Carla Thompson, who works in an Arlington, Va., office building about 1,000 yards from the crash. 'I saw an indentation in the building and then it was just blown-up up—red, everything red,' she said. 'Everybody was just starting to go crazy. I was petrified.'"
- "Terrorists Attack New York, Pentagon." Los Angeles Times, 12 Sep 2001


"I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke."
- Steve Anderson, Director of Communications, USA Today


"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
- "Hell on Earth." UU World, Jan/Feb 2002


"Northern Virginia resident John O'Keefe was one of the commuters who witnessed the attack on the Pentagon. 'I was going up 395, up Washington Blvd., listening to the the news, to WTOP, and from my left side-I don't know whether I saw or heard it first- I saw a silver plane I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet,' said the 25-year-old O'Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. 'It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I'd just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, "That's not going to make it to National Airport." And then I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the Pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black, thick smoke.'"
- "Terrorist 'Situation'." American Lawyer Media, 11 Sep 2001

where were the bodies and body parts of the passengers?

reply to post by CanadianDream420
Of all those 'eyewitness' accounts, there is one who 'saw impact'. And because he's a pilot, he could at 535 mph, see wings move forward at impact. What a guy! Better eyes than Chuck Yeager.

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
* The placement of the plane is NOT a mundane detail.

Of course it is, especially by such a small percentage of the people who witnessed the event. Everyone still says it crashed into the Pentagon.

* All people interviewed who saw it bank, ALL saw it bank right.

Well according to Steve Anderson -

I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball.

* A Pentagon policeman, at the East loading dock, saw the plane fly over.

No he didn't. Since the plane did not flyover according to every other single witness to the event. He saw the C-130 that was following AA77 which was actually seen by others as well and even identified as such.

Allen Cleveland

Soon after the crash(Within 30 seconds of the crash) I witnessed a military cargo plane(Possibly a C130) fly over the crash site and circle the mushroom cloud. My brother inlaw also witnessed the same plane following the jet while he was on the HOV lanes in Springfield.

Scott P. Cook

Directly in back of the plume, which would place it almost due west from our office, a four-engine propeller plane, which Ray later said resembled a C-130, started a steep decent towards the Pentagon.

John O'Keefe

The first thing I did was pull over onto the shoulder, and when I got out of the car I saw another plane flying over my head, and it scared ...me, because I knew there had been two planes that hit the World Trade Center. And I started jogging up the ramp to get as far away as possible. Then the plane -- it looked like a C-130 cargo plane -- started turning away from the Pentagon, it did a complete turnaround.

Phillip Thompson

Then a gray C-130 flew overhead, setting off a new round of panic.

The hilarity of this all is that if you followed CIT before they found this "flyover" witness, who they desperately needed to keep people buying into their theory, they actually were spatting over even calling Roberts their guy. But in the excitement they had built up by announcing they had a secret "flyover" witness they had no choice and are stuck to it, since Craig will NEVER ever admit to being wrong, even though I have called him out on it on several occasions.

* Most of the people could NOT see the explosion site (alleged impact site) or were running or diving for cover.

The many eyewitnesses totally destroy your argument.

just FYI - the DoubleTree video DOES NOT help your case

gosh there was an explosion but no airplane there... uh ya, that's the way I see it too!

So you don't see a plane "flying over" correct? Which is what's expected since it didn't happen.

No one saw the plane "flyover" the Pentagon.

CIT is nothing more than a sad joke.

reply to post by dillweed


Only one said they saw it hit? I counted 10 people that watched it hit. I didnt read anyone mentioning it fly over. Hell it wold have been pretty easy to see it fly over if the saw the plane going down and then a huge fireball going up, with the plane climbing over it.

Something like this:



Or a 757 doing this right after the explosion:



You cant hide the fact that the plane has to completely avoid being knocked out of the sky by the force of the blast, or the debris being launched the explosion, or ingesting debris, or impacting the building itself.

Originally posted by Soloist
I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball.

amazing that even though this one guy saw the wing hit the ground there was no damage! I woulda thought an airplane hitting the ground would leave a mark learn something new everyday.

Originally posted by Soloist

* A Pentagon policeman, at the East loading dock, saw the plane fly over.

No he didn't. Since the plane did not flyover according to every other single witness to the event. He saw the C-130 that was following AA77 which was actually seen by others as well and even identified as such.

AGAIN... watch the video, please! Roosevelt Roberts jr states clearly and precisely it was a "commercial airliner". A policeman, trained to notice detail, working a mile from airport is able to recognize the difference between a C-130 and a commercial airliner.
Soloist, now you're just making things up to fit your agenda... there's this thing called "integrity" you should look it up. Deny ignorance mate, this isn't some argument you can win or lose, it's about peoples' lives and the state of our world.

Just as a side note... the point of this thread is to compare the two movies, not just rehash the same old arguments about who saw what or who didn't see what or why there's no airplane in the one non-government video released to the public.

Perspective 77 is using a false premise of perception while using witnesses that are half mile away. They also state 4 people saw the plane go over the cloverleaf, allegedly based on the CIT video, when in fact there were not people in those locations who saw that. Perspective 77 is a fraud.

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
amazing that even though this one guy saw the wing hit the ground there was no damage! I woulda thought an airplane hitting the ground would leave a mark

learn something new everyday.

And even more amazing is that he isn't the only one who claims the wing hit the ground.

However your attempt to distract against an eyewitness who destroys your earlier statement has been noted for all to see.

Roosevelt Roberts jr states clearly and precisely it was a "commercial airliner".

And he was wrong.

It happens.

All the other witnesses to the event agree. The Double Tree video does not show the plane flying through and above the explosion like CIT theory suggests, which also would be in plain view according to where Robert's says the plane was.

Another clue that this wasn't a "flyover" and in fact was the C-130 is his quote :

Roosevelt: It would've t- it would've taken about ten seconds, because after impact I stepped out the little, uh, booth that I was in.

10 freaking seconds? How slow was that flyover jet going???

You are simply towing their line for them, it's one that has been laughed out of here for quite some time. You want to talk about denying ignorance? Then stop attempting to spread it around, it's not working on those of us who have some sense.

Originally posted by Soloist

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
amazing that even though this one guy saw the wing hit the ground there was no damage! I woulda thought an airplane hitting the ground would leave a mark

learn something new everyday.

And even more amazing is that he isn't the only one who claims the wing hit the ground.

However your attempt to distract against an eyewitness who destroys your earlier statement has been noted for all to see.

oh... I see your point. It's plain as day! why, oh why didn't I believe the blog posts over the Center for Military History recorded interview to begin with...

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
"I was supposed to have been going to the Pentagon Tuesday morning at about 11:00am (EDT) and was getting ready, and thank goodness I wasn't going to be going until later. It was so shocking, I was listening to the news on what had happened in New York, and just happened to look out the window because I heard a low flying plane and then I saw it hit the Pentagon. It happened so fast... it was in the air one moment and in the building the next..."
- "U.S. Under Attack: Your Eyewitness Accounts." BBC News, 14 Sep 2001

The only one that says they saw it hit, but it doesn't say where they were.

I don't think you could see where the plane hit from the most of the road around the pentagon, due to the dirt mounds that appeared just before 9-11.







stevenwarran.blogspot.com...

reply to post by Thermo Klein


Thermo Klein, great thread S&F

This all boils down to which eyewitness are lying?

Are we to believe the government OS witness or are we to believe in these credible professionals such as police officers who certainly have no reason to lie? Most of the OS of 911 is hogwash, so why should anyone believe in the witnesses that support the OS?
This is no different from debunkers who are desperate in supporting the OS, in this thread who post excerpts from “unknown sources” and flat out refuses to post the source.

reply to post by ANOK




So let me guess, somehow the plane just vanished into thin air the second it just got out of sight? Or did it somehow hit the cloaking device on board that was stolen from a Klingon Bird of Prey? But those that were right next to the Pentagon are all lying about it smashing into the building right? Or somehow they all just missed it doing an amazing high speed climb mere inches from the building, just barely avoiding the blast, shrapnel and debris of the "explosion" and nobody noticed it, thanks to the cloacking device installed by the NWO?

ANOK, you keep getting funnier and funnier!

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by ANOK

 

So let me guess, somehow the plane just vanished into thin air the second it just got out of sight? Or did it somehow hit the cloaking device on board that was stolen from a Klingon Bird of Prey? But those that were right next to the Pentagon are all lying about it smashing into the building right? Or somehow they all just missed it doing an amazing high speed climb mere inches from the building, just barely avoiding the blast, shrapnel and debris of the "explosion" and nobody noticed it, thanks to the cloacking device installed by the NWO?

ANOK, you keep getting funnier and funnier!

edit on 3/3/2011 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)

you have just described the official version of 9/11. right?

reply to post by GenRadek


Did you come up with that all by yourself? You clever boy.

I have yet to read a post from you that adds anything to a discussion. Anyone can be can sarcarstic [sic], yer a funny guy, oh wait let me rephrase that, yer a funny troll...

I guess bringing up the dirt mounds hit a nerve huh? You didn't even attempt to refute the claim, just made up some nonsense. I guess when you are paid per word it doesn't really matter what you type? (I'm kidding btw)

reply to post by ANOK


Aww ANOK, cant take a joke?

Did you notice the HIGHWAY signs right behind the mound of dirt? Yeah lets hide the view of the Pentagon from people farther away, but lets have cars stuck in traffic drive right next to the Pentagon impact site and give them a ringside seat, including for the people in all the buildings that are higher than one story.

Oh ANOK, have you ever been there at the Pentagon? That is no temporary dirt mound. It is something they call LANDSCAPING. You really should go beyond the conspiracy sites and do some of your own thinking for once. I cant be holding yoru hand and fixing your errors every step of the way:

Take a look at streetview of the same site from google maps:

View of "temp" berm

If you cant see it, it is on Joyce Street. That mound has been there since Sept 2001 and maybe earlier. Its landscaping ANOK, not temporary. Its been permanent. Ouch. Real research beats fake 9/11 research again!!


Also do you really think a 4ft high berm of dirt is going to impede the view of a 757 hitting the side of the Pentagon? Yeah because those evil NWO masters calculated it will be more than enough to hide a 757 doing a secret flyover which NO ONE saw thanks to the cloaking device.

And I'll bet it really blocked the people's view driving down VA-27 right here:
Ringside seats

Yes ANOK. that five foot berm at the Citgo really will stop these folks from seeing "what's really going on". And I'm sure the people that were in the position above saw something like this over their car:

No one mentions a plane doing this:


But rather than me just ridiculing and pulling apart your argument, how about you explain what the significance is of these "dirt mounds" around the Pentagon?

Well I was interested until I read....

Perspective 77 focuses primarily on three men standing in the workyard of Arlington National Cemetery and that perspective can be inaccurate.

So your rebuttal to the NSA presentation is a practice in the fallacy of omission. Excellent! That is exactly what debunkers do repeatedly over and over and over again and those who questions the OS are extremely tired of it and tired of pointing it out.

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by ANOK

 

So let me guess, somehow the plane just vanished into thin air the second it just got out of sight? Or did it somehow hit the cloaking device on board that was stolen from a Klingon Bird of Prey? But those that were right next to the Pentagon are all lying about it smashing into the building right? Or somehow they all just missed it doing an amazing high speed climb mere inches from the building, just barely avoiding the blast, shrapnel and debris of the "explosion" and nobody noticed it, thanks to the cloacking device installed by the NWO?

ANOK, you keep getting funnier and funnier!

edit on 3/3/2011 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)

You left this out...

Or the plane was not even cared about because planes flying over the Pentagon are a COMMON DAILY OCCURRENCE and have been for years!! Duh!

Lets see....what are you going to watch? An explosion or a common daily occurrence? Then again, do you have the FBI phone records from the region from that day or are they still being withheld? ROFLMAO@U Those might shed a little light on what people reported to authorities that day.

Seriously, why, as a debunker, do you omit facts?