Immigration DID lower our wages!

For how long have I been saying this? All the years they would take no blame.

Well finally an admission.

The Labour leader said the number of Eastern European immigrants coming to Britain over the past decade was one reason why average family earnings were squeezed.

Link

Now they've finally admitted at least some responsibility, what's their solution to the grief they've caused us?

Disclaimer: I have no problem with immigrants themselves, but I think you can have too much of a good thing.

reply to post by GodForbid


Don't look for a solution from that which caused the problem. Solutions come from individuals like you and me. Your post is part of it. The solution flows from within. Some of the things that can be done are boycott, protest, word of mouth, youtube, facebook,...... but that is my outlet. Your solutions are uniquely yours.

reply to post by GodForbid


Of course it did and for folks to suggest otherwise is completely dishonest and illogical.

Tons of the open border/pro immigration folks want to create this charactericture of the immigrant only doing the very lowest of jobs. Picking fruit, cleaning houses, cutting lawns. That, first of all is innacurate and secondly insulting to the immigrant many of which are highly skilled and talented.

There are plenty of immigrants doing high end trade work. In the US, illegal immigrants are doing skilled work as masons, carpenters, electricians, roofers, metal workers and the like. They will do this job under the table at 50% on the dollar. That obviously decreases the amount of like work for non-immigrants and drives the general wage for those skilled jobs down. It makes no sense to suggest otherwise

reply to post by yoesse


I have my own ideas for some solutions, but I'm not in a position of power. These lot are. They've admitted mistakes, I can live with that. What I want to know is what exactly they're going to do about it.

I'll do my part by pointing these things out when the chance comes to people I know, but I don't have the power alone to do anything.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Exactly and thank you. I think you'd be highly surprised by how many people cannot see this, and flat out disagree with me when I say it exactly how you did.

I remember reading articles 5 or so years back where these same politicians were assuring us it was for our best interests and would boost our economy. I've disagreed all along.

Originally posted by GodForbid
reply to post by dolphinfan

 

Exactly and thank you. I think you'd be highly surprised by how many people cannot see this, and flat out disagree with me when I say it exactly how you did.

I remember reading articles 5 or so years back where these same politicians were assuring us it was for our best interests and would boost our economy. I've disagreed all along.

Oh, goodness! You totally forgot that the "economy" is not about you, it is about businesses making money and tax revenues going up. You assumed that your welfare was considered? This economic game closely resembles sending troops off to war. guess who profits?

Interesting thread to me.

Being American, our problem is with Mexican immigrants, not eastern Europeans. The reason I bring this up, is that if an American says he is against illegal immigration, all the liberals and democrats usually infer that person is being racist. Somehow they turn the issue of Americans vs. illegal immigrants, into Americans hating Mexicans, which at least for me is not the case.

In your country, what is the propaganda used to bash those who are against illegal immigration? Do they call you guys racist against eastern Europeans? Or do they call you heartless because you don't want to hand your country over to other people?

I'd be very interested in the answer, as I just get so sick of people saying I'm a racist because I don't want illegal immigrants in this country. I wish Mexicans were white, just so nobody could call me a racist for wanting them to enter the country legally.

You really can't blame the immigrants who are only doing the best they can to provide a better life for their families.. It would be terrifying to leave your native country and culture and embark to a new unfamiliar place where the inhabitants speak a different language and openly let you know of their disdain and fear of you... It is obvious to me that it is those that profit from cheap labor the most that are the real threat to the financial well being of citizens that are losing income and even their sources of income the the immigrant workers.... Capitalism is motivated by greed and like workers everywhere, immigrants are just trying to do the best they can.... Capitalism is the real threat to the people of the world.. It is capitalist afford to buy elected officials and the governing bodies of nations are why the citizen workers of these nations are losing out to those willing to do more for less.. They can do so because they come from places where they learned to make a little go a long way, something those that have always lived in wealthier countries where workers receive better wages, feel a sense of entitlement and a more comfortable lifestyle can't do... I have a hard time believing that they would be looked down on and blamed for the things they are if they could speak the language and be of the same race and culture as the majority of people that live in the country they have migrated to.

I'm sick of hearing people blame immigrants for the mess you've all allowed yourselves to get into due to your patriotic ignorance and support of a system that doesn't benefit you.

The private owners of the means of production, the system you all love so much, is the real reason you, and immigrants, are not paid what you're really worth.

The system looks good in America because more of you have benefited from it, but that very same system in Mexico does not benefit the majority and is why they have to come to America looking for work.

Mexico is a wealthy country, but so few own the means of production they exploit the people and pay them next to nothing. They have a lower unemployment rate than the US, around 5.5% compared with 9% in the US. The only reason the U.S. is not like Mexico is because the U.S. had a stronger labour movement, so please thank your socialist friends (who have been demonized by your right wing media).

reply to post by GodForbid


Exactly what I have said too - most of our first world countries are selling out their own people to fix their books and make short term profits and deals without any regards to what the future repercussions will be - but it doesnt matter because the individuals who make these decisions are often no longer in the drivers seat by then.

Originally posted by ANOK
I'm sick of hearing people blame immigrants for the mess you've all allowed yourselves to get into due to your patriotic ignorance and support of a system that doesn't benefit you.

He is not blaming the immigrants - he is blaming his country for letting them in - as you said " for the mess you've all allowed yourselves to get into " - the OP is expressing his displeasure to his representatives for not looking after what was in the best interests of the citizens at the time.

The private owners of the means of production, the system you all love so much, is the real reason you, and immigrants, are not paid what you're really worth.
The system looks good in America because more of you have benefited from it, but that very same system in Mexico does not benefit the majority and is why they have to come to America looking for work.

I believe if you check the OP this is regarding britain not America - but either way he has a right to complain, he says has been against this for a long time - and now has the people in power admitting they messed up.

Mexico is a wealthy country, but so few own the means of production they exploit the people and pay them next to nothing. They have a lower unemployment rate than the US, around 5.5% compared with 9% in the US. The only reason the U.S. is not like Mexico is because the U.S. had a stronger labour movement, so please thank your socialist friends (who have been demonized by your right wing media).

Wow youre a nasty peace of work - this guy (the OP) expresses his fundamental right to complain that his people are losing work because too many foreigners are being let in to his country, and is showing his frustration that he has been saying this for a long time but only now his government is admitting they messed up. He feels his representatives have not represented him but somehow you apply his complaint to a different country - and you go as far as labeling him a socialist.
ANOK I think you misstyped the second letter of your name.

This is where the issue does get tricky for me.

I would hate to deprive someone in another country from seeking a better life. But at the same time, I would hate for someone in my country to not be able to have a better life, to facilitate an immigrant.

People talk as if Immigrants taking citizen's jobs is a myth. How is this possible? If an illegal immigrant is working, they are working in a position, that in their absence, would be filled by a citizen. It is a fact they are taking jobs from us. And doing so illegally.

Then they say, well immigrants only work jobs that Americans wont take. Really? If you are an American citizen, you have a legal right to earn minimum wage. Considering the hard economic times we are currently in, I don't think even minimum wage jobs would be turned down by Americans. So yet another myth.

Illegal workers don't pay taxes, and many take advantage of our medical system, and make the state pay for their children if they gave birth to them here.

I personally don't believe illegal immigrants are even close to being one of the biggest issues we face today, but they are still an issue that needs to get dealt with. How exactly I do not know.

Originally posted by James1982
Interesting thread to me.

Being American, our problem is with Mexican immigrants, not eastern Europeans. The reason I bring this up, is that if an American says he is against illegal immigration, all the liberals and democrats usually infer that person is being racist. Somehow they turn the issue of Americans vs. illegal immigrants, into Americans hating Mexicans, which at least for me is not the case.

In your country, what is the propaganda used to bash those who are against illegal immigration? Do they call you guys racist against eastern Europeans? Or do they call you heartless because you don't want to hand your country over to other people?

I'd be very interested in the answer, as I just get so sick of people saying I'm a racist because I don't want illegal immigrants in this country. I wish Mexicans were white, just so nobody could call me a racist for wanting them to enter the country legally.

No, there's little problem here with racism. People here are generally very welcoming, and the immigrants are generally good people.
Problem is that we're a small country, and this is too much too fast, we've all suffered badly from it. I think the word "immigrant" is an excuse for someone to take offence, truth is that's the word to describe it so they shouldn't.

Try to just explain your point and cover you back by saying "I have no problem with mexicans" or whatever

Originally posted by hypervigilant
You really can't blame the immigrants who are only doing the best they can to provide a better life for their families.. It would be terrifying to leave your native country and culture and embark to a new unfamiliar place where the inhabitants speak a different language and openly let you know of their disdain and fear of you... It is obvious to me that it is those that profit from cheap labor the most that are the real threat to the financial well being of citizens that are losing income and even their sources of income the the immigrant workers.... Capitalism is motivated by greed and like workers everywhere, immigrants are just trying to do the best they can.... Capitalism is the real threat to the people of the world.. It is capitalist afford to buy elected officials and the governing bodies of nations are why the citizen workers of these nations are losing out to those willing to do more for less.. They can do so because they come from places where they learned to make a little go a long way, something those that have always lived in wealthier countries where workers receive better wages, feel a sense of entitlement and a more comfortable lifestyle can't do... I have a hard time believing that they would be looked down on and blamed for the things they are if they could speak the language and be of the same race and culture as the majority of people that live in the country they have migrated to.

No one's blaming the immigrants themselves. We're blaming the government for being way too lax and completely underestimating the numbers of immigrants who've come here.

As said, we don't have a problem with the immigrants, we have a problem with the government for being unable to foresee the dangers when a lot of others could.

Originally posted by ANOK
I'm sick of hearing people blame immigrants for the mess you've all allowed yourselves to get into due to your patriotic ignorance and support of a system that doesn't benefit you.

The private owners of the means of production, the system you all love so much, is the real reason you, and immigrants, are not paid what you're really worth.

edit on 3/1/2011 by ANOK because: typo

This is a crazy post. We hate the system, no one loves it, I've never heard anyone say they love the system how ridiculous, obviously you're unable to understand the point being made here so I won't bother trying to explain it.

reply to post by byteshertz


Thanks for the understanding

Originally posted by James1982
This is where the issue does get tricky for me.

I would hate to deprive someone in another country from seeking a better life. But at the same time, I would hate for someone in my country to not be able to have a better life, to facilitate an immigrant.

People talk as if Immigrants taking citizen's jobs is a myth. How is this possible? If an illegal immigrant is working, they are working in a position, that in their absence, would be filled by a citizen. It is a fact they are taking jobs from us. And doing so illegally.

Then they say, well immigrants only work jobs that Americans wont take. Really? If you are an American citizen, you have a legal right to earn minimum wage. Considering the hard economic times we are currently in, I don't think even minimum wage jobs would be turned down by Americans. So yet another myth.

Illegal workers don't pay taxes, and many take advantage of our medical system, and make the state pay for their children if they gave birth to them here.

I personally don't believe illegal immigrants are even close to being one of the biggest issues we face today, but they are still an issue that needs to get dealt with. How exactly I do not know.

edit on 1-3-2011 by James1982 because: (no reason given)

Yeah I totally agree with you and it's the same here. Many suffer with zero income and would love a minimum wage job just to get by.

I agree that it is tricky and also that I'd hate to stop immigrants from seeking a better life, but I think the government here need to sort out our own problems first, and there's nothing wrong with trying to help the Euro block sort out their problems too if they ask for it.

Our country is too small and very over crowded, we don't have the capacity to allow for so many immigrants in such a short space of time, and the government were extremely short sighted and slow to react to this.

I am American, and the same has happened here. But the reason is this example...

My inlaws are what I consider wealthy. They make at least half a million a year and that's not including "perks" , like company car, gas card etc. I am not rich I am dead average American two income family. They constantly complain about illegal immigrants, and dis my political views and say all I want to do is support illegals with their tax dollars. They are ULTRA conservative.

So, I am at their house and the house keeper shows up...she is Latina.
I am at their house another time , and the lawn guys show up...also Latino.
And guess who cleans her pool...you guessed it.

I also know they have three large properties at different locations...where I will loosely expect that they do the same thing.

They are so cheap they squeak when they walk. And always complain about money, all the while I know they have no problems and a bank account full of money.

They hire these immigrants so they can pay them very little, and under the table.
All the while complaining about illegal immigration, unemployment benefits, and taxes used to support Medicare for children of these immigrants.

Even efter much heated debate, to the point we haven't even spoken to them since October, they fail to see the hipocracy in their actions.

Two distinct things are getting mixed up in this thread: illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. I do not see anything about illegal immigrants mentioned in the article.

As for legal immigrants, yes, they do lower wages for natives, that is simple supply and demand. More cheap workers leads to less value for an individual worker. As an eastern european, I have no problem to admit that. Immigrants do help economy when the skill they posess is highly demanded. Immigrants doing low skill jobs for low wages do not help economy, but may harm it instead.

Originally posted by Wetpaint72
I am American, and the same has happened here. But the reason is this example...

My inlaws are what I consider wealthy. They make at least half a million a year and that's not including "perks" , like company car, gas card etc. I am not rich I am dead average American two income family. They constantly complain about illegal immigrants, and dis my political views and say all I want to do is support illegals with their tax dollars. They are ULTRA conservative.

So, I am at their house and the house keeper shows up...she is Latina.
I am at their house another time , and the lawn guys show up...also Latino.
And guess who cleans her pool...you guessed it.

I also know they have three large properties at different locations...where I will loosely expect that they do the same thing.

They are so cheap they tight when they walk. And always complain about money, all the while I know they have no problems and a bank account full of money.

They hire these immigrants so they can pay them very little, and under the table.
All the while complaining about illegal immigration, unemployment benefits, and taxes used to support Medicare for children of these immigrants.

Even efter much heated debate, to the point we haven't even spoken to them since October, they fail to see the hipocracy in their actions.

edit on 1-3-2011 by Wetpaint72 because: (no reason given)

Yeah it's a funny thing, and that's the problem. People will pay as little as possible to employ someone, and when they opportunity to do so is there they will, which, of course, lowers the rate for others looking for similar work.

Rich people will rarely admit they have any money, and they usually get that rich by not spending anything. I feel like shaking them and saying "You realize you will die at some point right? ENJOY YOURSELF!" Haha.

Originally posted by Maslo
Two distinct things are getting mixed up in this thread: illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. I do not see anything about illegal immigrants mentioned in the article.

As for legal immigrants, yes, they do lower wages for natives, that is simple supply and demand. More cheap workers leads to less value for an individual worker. As an eastern european, I have no problem to admit that. Immigrants do help economy when the skill they posess is highly demanded. Immigrants doing low skill jobs for low wages do not help economy, but may harm it instead.

Exactly, my problem is why did they not foresee this when the rest of us did? Why did they flat out deny that this would happen? And what now that they have, are they going to do about it?

Opportunities for kids are far and few between here because "skilled" workers are imported to go straight into the trade, taking away the need to train the natives.

It's a shame because most of the immigrants I've met have been lovely people, and I wish them the best of lives, but I think our government is only bringing us down to the level their countries were at in the first place. It was too much too fast.

reply to post by Aliensun


Very few of the immigrants, at least in the US work for corporate interests. Farm labor is likely the largest segment with textiles being second. These people work for private citizens and it is they who benefit, not the corporations. It is the middle class gent who needs a bit of plumbing down in his house who will hire the illegal Mexican to do the work for $20/hour and not call the liscenced plumber neighbor of his and may him the $100+/hour to do the work. In this instance, the middle class is hurting the middle class and supressing each others wages.

The evil corporations only get involved here in so far as they push the government to keep the borders open, mostly for customers and in the case of agra business for the labor.

It may well be the way you say it is where you live.... If you were to have lived in Dallas or Houston 20 or 30 years ago and were to see how many corporations have constructed buildings and relocated to these two cities, how many corporate managed and owned apartment and town homes have been built you would understand that corporations do score big by hiring illegal immigrant workers... Anytime you see one gringo or black person sweating while doing very little you will see a Mexican producing 2 or 3 times more work with a big smile on his face that is begging for longer hours even if it is at 1/2 pay. Anyone in mid management that wants to climb the corporate ladder would be a fool to not take advantage of people like that..... You will never have to worry about them having a bad attitude, not showing up for work, stealing, refusing to work overtime, slacking off or going on strike for higher wages... All of these things are becoming uncommon in workers in this country.... The skylines of big cities wouldn't be so big and bright and the bedroom communities wouldn't stretch so far in every direction if these people weren't around to do the manual and skilled labor to build them.