Value to an advanced sentience

This is intended to be a journey in thought.

You are a sentience that has managed to travel across the vast distances of the cosmos, phase into other dimensions, or some other feat that we would consider to be quite advanced. Any of these likely requires some fairly sound understanding of engineering/manufacturing, power generation and control, and physics. You have access to virtually unlimited amounts of resources.

What could you possibly need?

When you have reached a point where existence and survival is all but guaranteed - where you are genuinely post-scarcity... what floats your boat?

I'm sure the answer to this will be found to be as diverse as the life in the universe - however, I believe one trend will be rather common.

It can be seen in how we deal with other life forms on our planet - a form of symbiosis. Rather than an anatomical or biological symbiosis, it is a researched or engineered symbiosis. We look to bacteria to learn how to make better chemical processing facilities (if not culture those bacteria specifically for chemical processing) - and have even found ways of making higher fidelity communication equipment in the dynamics of bacteria.

We are always looking at birds to find solutions to our aerodynamic challenges, and to insects for our networking and math/cognitive models.

We regard them as "how nature has solved problems."

Why should another sentience regard us any differently? Or - why should WE regard another sentience any differently? At the end of the day - we are all products of nature (whatever you believe nature to be - be it the divine or probability). Thus, it makes sense that another sentience would look at us not for our resources or biodiversity per-se, but for the solutions our behavior and creations can provide to their problems. Perhaps they have somehow not even discovered solid-state semiconductors, composite materials, or paid much attention to bio-medicine and the idea of studying and using plant-derived extracts to engineer their own physiology is a rather unique idea amongst other species.

Thus - I assert that an advanced sentience would not seek out other forms of life for some kind of resource need, but for the ideas that another species' way of life and technological accomplishments foster within the minds of those who observe.

I think we get too caught up in looking at things from our human perspective of predator-prey relationships and a resource-driven existence. While that's not necessarily a bad thing - it is certainly a mental-block, of sorts, when discussing the values and motives of a sentience that has achieved engineering feats that, at least in theory, should place them in a post-scarcity category.

I was thinking that when Stephen Hawking was saying Aliens would want to conquer us for our resources. I mean, its fair to tell people to be wary of them because, we honestly don't know, but you'd think that a civilization that mastered inter solar system, maybe even inter galactic flight would need the resources we have? Even if they did, why don't they go to some of the other millions of planets that are uninhabited throughout the galaxy to get what they need instead of wasting more resources attacking a civilization and potentially destroying more resources?

/rant done

Interesting topic OP, I like you're thinking

this belongs among the topics that deserve a star & flag. the kind of topic that gets you thinking. sad to say that lately a lot of topics on ATS have gone the way of the tabloids with bold and loud claims but with less content and even lesser time and thought taken into creating them. i'm glad to see that not everything and everyone on ATS has become that way. S & F for you OP.

If I was of a race that had such a command over mind and matter that the ongoing existence of my people was guaranteed, I guess I could go a few different ways with the 'what next'.

I may decide to take the philanthropist avenue and help a lot of less advanced cultures get over their problems, or I may intentionally hold other cultures back so that our position can never be challenged or endangered. I guess the third option would be to simply do nothing and let cultures rise and fall or their own accord... survival of the fittest, law of the jungle and all that. There are obviously pro's and cons to all approaches. If I had to choose one though, I'd probably choose the later... ala Star Trek's Prime Directive.

Well most likely if I had all that stuff and power at hand, I would find some backward planet and go play God

reply to post by Aim64C


There are a few things that come to mind reading this that I wish to share...

It is wrong to assign human emotional attributes to any alien life forms. Negative or positive. That is to say, even thinking of them as malevolent or benevolent, either one, could be entirely inappropriate. Our very understanding of morality and "right and wrong" could be a uniquely human attribute, not shared by any visitors we might entertain.

IE an alien might, for example, save your life one minute, and then kill you the next, simply because each act was the most expedient option available at each given moment. There are countless variations of this that might apply. So, trying to understand them in these terms is, to me, a lost cause.

Until we meet them, we just won't know what to expect.

Another factor, I think, is an abstract of cost/benefit analysis - how hard it is for ET to get here... how much they have to expend in the process. This, I think, is just basic logic. Resources, be it materials or just time, are limited for, I would think, all species. Therefore the expenditure of those resources has to be considered in the decision of how to utilize them.

And frankly the "human zoo" idea doesn't work for me... We spam the universe with signals already. ET could sit in his living room to study our sociology. He can even get our DNA from television broadcasts. Moreover, if he wanted to speak to us, the same thing applies. He could just send us back a message over the same frequencies that we use. For my money this implies that if he does come here, there has to be a more compelling reason than simple education.

Part of our humanity is that we'd brave the coldness of space simply to validate ourselves... to see an alien life form and to know, for certain and finally, that we are not alone. We have a need to believe that even if we should perish, life will prevail. Let us hope that ET shares this quirk with his human cousins.

~Heff

In a sea of turds every now and then I find a good thread on here. You know, the kind of threads that don't make you feel embarrassed for being surrounded by so much willful and deliberate ignorance.

It is a good point. If one's society has full command of their existence and everything it going good for them, what would "float their boat"?

I would like to think that once they reach that level, it would float their boat to help others reach that level. But I don't think that means they are here doing that now. They might have a 10,000 year life cycle for all we know. They may have become immortal. They might be taking their time working their way through the universe because they observe time differently and have a far different perspective of it.

Either way, I don't think they are here making stupid lights in sky youtube videos or butt-diddling people while they sleep.

Originally posted by Aim64C

When you have reached a point where existence and survival is all but guaranteed - where you are genuinely post-scarcity... what floats your boat?
.

If past the point of worrying about day to day survival, if evolved either technologicaly or biologicaly to the point of self sustaining perpetual replenishment of energy reserves , then I would have thought that the only thing that would have value to me, would be knowledge , for its own sake. For the joy of having it.
I would literaly spend EONS charging around the universe, logging every single planets life forms, where sentient life is to be found, how those species vary from planet to planet, system to system, galaxy to galaxy , and perhaps see an over arching structure to life as a whole , or marvel at the apparant lack of any pattern whatsoever, whichever might be the case.
I would literaly turn my existance into a voyage of discovery , since the only thing that is left to do once all fleshly needs are dealt with, is to nourish the one thing that no amount of resource aquisition can replace. That is of course, the desire to understand the environment within which lifes game is played, and all the myriad factors that affect its continuity.

Originally posted by SpreadLoveNotHate
... but you'd think that a civilization that mastered inter solar system, maybe even inter galactic flight would need the resources we have? Even if they did, why don't they go to some of the other millions of planets that are uninhabited throughout the galaxy to get what they need instead of wasting more resources attacking a civilization and potentially destroying more resources...

Do you think the native Americans asked the same question about the Europeans?

Why would advanced people who could sail half-way around the world need the resources in the Americas? Plus, the Americas were a wide-open land. Why not just use the resources/land that the native inhabitants were NOT using.