Buying or selling guns at Gun Shows???

If you attend your local gun shows, like I do...here's some info you need to know as a private party buying or selling guns. I searched this topic and didn't find a thread on this, if there is a previous post have mercy this is my first thread. This info is from my local paper and found at the BATFE web site....don't believe me, look it up!

Private party sale and transfer of firearms across state lines: Federal law allows the sale of a long gun or a handgun between private parties of the same State as long as the purchaser is 18 years of age.
An individual who does not possess an FFL (federal firearms license) may not sell a modern firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer ( FFL ) in the purchasers state.........there's more to this law, but what I've presented is most important.

I've been doing gun shows for more than 14 years as a private buyer and seller....here's some tips and things to be careful of.


1. If you rent a table at a gun show to buy and sell.... always ask for an I.D.
a. Let's say you purchased a gun from someone and want to put it on your table to resell...you must wait til the next day to put on your table... or you'll be breaking the law .
2. Let's say you're just walking around the gun show and haven't rented a table
a. If you buy a gun from someone you don't know is from your state, ask for an I.D....same goes for if you sell a gun
b. if you buy a gun and want to resell it ...you have to wait til the next day.
3. When you're buying or selling a gun , it's yours and nobody elses...ie... your not selling or buying for anyone !!
I know these seem like vague technicalities, but people have been busted in Wisconsin by the BATFE. for not abiding by these.

Mods if this is in the wrong category, please move.

reply to post by conspiracytheoristIAM


S & F. Lots of people have no clue. Being a gun owner, I think it's important to know the BAT Frack & Excrement laws intimately. Thanks!

OUTSTANDING POST!!!

As someone that buys/sells and trades often at shows this is good info for those not familiar. Remember ALWAYS ask for ID. A few tears back when NYC mayor Bloomberg had his "goons" at shows here in OHIO...I ran into a couple. Both were women, their tactic was as follows (summerized)...One would say "I have the money but forgot my ID, I'll give my friend the money because she has ID". I don't know of ANY woman that leaves the house without ID, especially when attending a gun show where ID might be needed. The bags they were carrying were quite large (as they held video/audio equipment). I watched them "do a deal" next to me, I could see into the bags to confirm my thoughts on their actions. When they made their way to me (I was sitting in the food area) and asked to see what I had for sale, I promptly closed my case, and walked away. Once I noticed the pair leave the area, I informed the individual that the pair had dealt with beforehand who and what I believed them to be up to. ALWAYS ask for ID...and if in doubt about a transaction - WALK AWAY.

One of the major reasons they are getting stricter is because Mexican cartels are getting 90% of their assault rifles, from people at gun shows. There was a special on last week about the drug war over territory and how the sinaloa cartel is competing with the Juarez seven, for trade routes and influence.

The violence has spread so far as into Arizona and Texas among other border states. Gun trafficking is the direct result of cartel violence over drug trade. Just do a search and hundreds of murders each week can be found. More people die in mexico due to drug violence than all casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, civilian included.

reply to post by ADVISOR

I've heard that 90% assertion on MSM, sorry I'm not buying it.

reply to post by ADVISOR


If you're gonna use figures like "90%" please back it up with actual data.

You can't buy Selective Fire M16A2s, grenades, and other full auto weapons from run of the mill gun shows. That's what these cartels are using..

YOU CAN get these weapons from armories in Mexico though, and many of these cartel members are former and CURRENT Mexican Army and Mexican SF members.

Reply to post by ADVISOR

Thanks to project gunwalker Mexican cartels are getting their guns from the ATF.

Who needs a gun show when the ATF is hand delivering military weapons.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by ADVISOR


its actually more like 12% of the weapons can be traced back to the US - www.nssfblog.com...

the majority of the AK's are coming from china and frag grenades and M 16's from south korea and many other US weapons have made their way into mexico via honduras and guatamala as left overs from reagans attempts to stall leftist regimes in central america.

www.spokesman.com...

www.neontommy.com...

reply to post by ADVISOR


Advisor, maybe you should use some of that research specialization before spouting statistics. That 90% number never applied to gun shows. It was actually an intentionally misleading statement to get more funding for "Gun Runner." The real number of guns that can be traced to America from Mexico is between 17% and 34% depending on your source. You can check Fox News and FactCheck.Org for different numbers.

Narco News and the LA Times have don't great stories in the past about what type of weapons are used in Mexico. They also covered the origins of many of these weapons. They have North Korean anti tank weapons, South Korean grenades, M2 Carbines that are fully automatic surplus rifles from South Korea, M16 surplus rifles from Vietnam, and fully automatic AK47s from China. The list goes on and on.

When you consider that the ATF let at least 700 guns, that we know of, cross the border it looks less like a gun show problem. It looks like governments around the world are having trouble controlling their military weapons and bureaucrats.

You cannot get a ASSAULT RIFLE at a gun show of from a FFL dealer or any other legal way because a Assault rifle is a MACHINE GUN !!!!!!, has been since 1943 when the germans can out with the MP 43,and established the assault rifle concept, with the 5 specific criteria that make up an assualt rifle.not all machine guns are assault rifles ,but all assault rifles are machine guns.please dont start lieing or deciving people like the mainstream "news" media does, they dont need anymore help when it comes to ruining this country.also FTF (face to face) transactions are not legal in every state,last i heard from NRA only 26 states allow FTF.so check first to see if its even legal an ask around at gun shows from the guys selling at a table about specific laws in your city or state,you cant expect to get the truth from a cop.

reply to post by madokie
unless you have a class 1 or 3 en.wikipedia.org... and that the person that your are gunsmith for is FFL to have full auto seen here www.atf.gov... it is not that hard pass back ground and have the funds.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
One of the major reasons they are getting stricter is because Mexican cartels are getting 90% of their assault rifles, from people at gun shows. There was a special on last week about the drug war over territory and how the sinaloa cartel is competing with the Juarez seven, for trade routes and influence.

That is a complete and utter myth.

See this link for complete article

As we discussed in a previous analysis, the 90 percent number was derived from a June 2009 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report to Congress on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico.

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.

The remaining 22,800 firearms seized by Mexican authorities in 2008 were not traced for a variety of reasons. In addition to factors such as bureaucratic barriers and negligence, many of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities either do not bear serial numbers or have had their serial numbers altered or obliterated. It is also important to understand that the Mexican authorities simply don’t bother to submit some classes of weapons to the ATF for tracing. Such weapons include firearms they identify as coming from their own military or police forces, or guns that they can trace back themselves as being sold through the Mexican Defense Department’s Arms and Ammunition Marketing Division (UCAM). Likewise, they do not ask ATF to trace military ordnance from third countries like the South Korean fragmentation grenades commonly used in cartel attacks.

Of course, some or even many of the 22,800 firearms the Mexicans did not submit to ATF for tracing may have originated in the United States. But according to the figures presented by the GAO, there is no evidence to support the assertion that 90 percent of the guns used by the Mexican cartels come from the United States — especially when not even 50 percent of those that were submitted for tracing were ultimately found to be of U.S. origin.

There's lots more information in the article. This extract was puiblished with permission from Stratfor.com

reply to post by schuyler
how true and most of them were stolen from legal owners! You will not hear nor read that, for that would put a dampener on this, www.un.org... you what to ban guns make everyone surrender theirs army's and Leo's not just the citizen.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by ADVISOR

 

If you're gonna use figures like "90%" please back it up with actual data.

You can't buy Selective Fire M16A2s, grenades, and other full auto weapons from run of the mill gun shows. That's what these cartels are using..

YOU CAN get these weapons from armories in Mexico though, and many of these cartel members are former and CURRENT Mexican Army and Mexican SF members.

edit on 27-2-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-2-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Way to go ADVISOR!

Project Gun Walker

The above link explains ATFE's attempt to undermine gun sales to and from US citizens by lieing about how firearms enter the Mexican cartells!
ADVISOR,
The AVERAGE price of a full auto weapon like and M-16 or a Thompson or a FAL is between 15,000 and 60,000 depending on condition. Why would a cartel pay that amount here when they can buy AK's by the crate for 200 a piece with 35 per crate? When they can pay some underpaid Mexican officer or soldier to use their own issued weapon to do harm to others in the cartel war? The MSM that your quoting have an agenda and you fell for the lies!

Zindo

Why go to a gun show, if you already have a weapon... Besides, you never know if the weapon was used in a criminal act. I'd rather buy a new one, at least I won't be accused of a possible murder / homicide

Originally posted by SilverGST
Why go to a gun show, if you already have a weapon... Besides, you never know if the weapon was used in a criminal act. I'd rather buy a new one, at least I won't be accused of a possible murder / homicide

It's a great way to get that "throwaway gun" or to have something that won't show up in any databases or other records as being yours in case they ever come knocking at your door.

I bought a shotgun at a gun show once and the girl behind the counter scratched the barrel when she moved it to call in the background check (FFL dealer and compliant)....It is a Franchi LAW-12 to go with my SPAS-12.

reply to post by SilverGST

If you collect guns you wont necessarily find what you are looking for "new" in a gun shop. Let me know if you know of any new 44 Auto Mags or 475 Mag Wildey's.