Jared Loughner the alleged Tucson shooter - So many questions - so few answers .

Since I know you're reading this, I'd like to say Hi Doom, my fallen comrade, we're still fighting the good fight, and I hope you're doing well in heaven but seriously throw me an email [email protected] we'll keep up with the case.

Crazy Jared is off to FedMed. Ostensibly it's only for 30 days, until you read the fine print:

www.news-leader.com...

If the psychiatrist finds that Loughner is incompetent and exhibits no signs that situation could change, the court could determine that Loughner is a danger to himself or others. Then, he would be remanded to the Bureau of Prisons -- until something in his mental outlook changed.

In other words, they can keep him indefinitely (until he shows 'progress' by taking responsibility for his crime--i.e., agreeing that he is guilty).

Donald Lewis, the chief of psychiatry for the BOP, recommended the Springfield prison -- an MRC -- because it "has medical staff available for neurology and other organic testing...

"Neurology and organic testing"--that sounds sinister. I wonder if that includes things like brain surgery to put in a chip, or that frontal lobotomy the doctors agree would improve his condition. Or maybe they'll put him on a continuous Thorazine IV drip. His memory will leave, and not come back.

Jared Lee Loughner will soon join the list of noted inmates past and present to reside in the U.S. Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield.

The walls of the Springfield prison have seen some of the biggest names in the criminal world.

John Gotti, the New York Mafia Boss, was convicted for racketeering and six murders. Gotti was transferred to the Springfield prison in 2000 while he battled cancer. He died there in 2002.

Omar Abdel-Rahman, known as the "blind sheik," was convicted for his part in the first World Trade Center bombing. He has stayed in the medical center several times, beginning in 1995.

Robert Stroud, the subject of the 1962 film "Birdman of Alcatraz," came to the medical prison in 1959 from Alcatraz. He died of natural causes there in 1963.

Hustler Magazine publisher Larry Flynt arrived at the medical center in 1984 for a medical evaluation. During a hearing in Springfield, Flynt said he was not receiving proper treatment at the prison.

Leonard Peltier was convicted of killing two FBI agents in 1975 at the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation is South Dakota. His case made international news when the then-Soviet Union highlighted his charges as an alleged human rights violation. He was moved to the Springfield prison in 1984.

I get the feeling that, if they really, really hate you, you get to go to this place.

reply to post by starviego


Sonofabitch.... This does not seem like good news to me.

i bet that's the last we (not)see and hear from him.
the system continually screws everybody.

Judy Clarke's possible intention for defending Jared Loughner

One has to ask why a mentally deranged loner could wind up with a prominent lawyer that practices law in California. The entire motive of Loughner shooting Giffords due to irrational hatred, tea party ideology, anti-semitism, 9/11 conspiracy theories, Zeitgeist, improper logic, obsession with mind control, satanic ritual mounds is dismissed because he pleaded not guilty. Obviously the intention of Judy Clarke at a glance is to spring for some type of plea for insanity, to pardon him from the death penalty due to temporary insanity and allow him a nice long stay in prison at the tax payer's expense. But underneath the media manipulation such as the smiling mugshot and the epitome of the "neo-nazi" skinhead demeanor, Judy Clarke may be interested in an entirely different angle with Loughner. Having served on cases before involving high levels of government sensitivity, such as the 9/11 fall guy (the "20th hijacker" that survived, ignoring the other ones that survived), Clarke could be acting as a "gatekeeper" preventing defendants from accusing the government and CIA of mind control. The 9/11 fall guy Zacarias Mousoui at first pleaded not guilty and then changed to guilty accepting life in prison. As other posters pointed out, perhaps the psych tests will convince Loughner he is guilty. Clarke could eventually convince Loughner to take a plea bargain and change his vote from innocent to guilty.

Also, since the media has already implanted in the public mind that Loughner is crazy, and even so called skeptics of ATS claim undyingly to think so, if he ever testifies during trial about CIA mind control the public will have already lost interest and/or think he's crazy.

To make fun of Loughner's own logic

If the government says he is crazy,
Then the people think he is crazy
Therefore he is crazy

If Loughner had anything at all to say about himself being a patsy, he should have had Judy Clarke say it now, strike while the iron is hot and the media is all over the story, but instead she is letting the situation calm down, asking for a trial in 2013! So the public will lose interest and he'll turn into just another Sirhan Sirhan, some reject lunatic with a strange name.

Mark Hernandez On Piers Morgan Last Night. A good part of the show was about Giffords aides and how they have been conducting life since here incident. Just a clip to get whomever going.

Mark Kelly At a NASA press conference yesterday, Mark Kelly basically just rehashed what Giffords doctors said nearly two weeks ago from a script. Really a script for that and this was supposedly the first question asked to the whole crew of the new shuuttle?

Their is more complete video of both of these scenarios and I just wanted to stop by and post these to help keep the thread alive and rolling for Doom and all of you who have put so much time and effort into it.

Keep it up and Thank You


That is all

Trowa Barton

Originally posted by TrowaBarton
Mark Kelly basically just rehashed what Giffords doctors said nearly two weeks ago from a script. Really a script for that and this was supposedly the first question asked to the whole crew of the new shuuttle?

I saw Mark Kelly on CNN, and he was reading from a script but trying to make it seem like he wasn't, like an 8th grader taking a vocational class who is taught to speak from memory but has to check the script every now and then. If I was reporting on my wife recovering from a near fatal gun shot I wouldn't be checking no script.

I'll check out your first link and make a comment on it.

And everyone who is researching this case, keep coming to this thread for new updates, even if you want to make new threads, post any pertinent information here. I will be reading it. Just because Doom is gone don't think this case is lost. I'm a true believer in every sense of the word on this case, and I will be here. PM me if you want.

reply to post by TrowaBarton


So this guy valiantly ran towards Giffords as soon as he heard the first gun shots, because he says that he knew Giffords could be a target, but Giffords was the first one shot! This seems to be a contradiction in his story with the official story. Usually when someone walks up to a politician and shoots them there are videos of it and multiple witnesses, no one has yet to describe actually being there while Loughner was a few feet away from her and shoots the gun. I doubt the surveillance video shows anything clearly.

Originally posted by kroms33

Turns out they won't let Doom back, unfortunately - I can't discuss why because of T&C

Let's continue the work that Doom was doing about Jared Loughner - I am sure he would want it that way.

I don't know about that. Doom is the one who brought me to post in this thread. I came here to support his research in an genuine ATS member gesture of friendship. I find it difficult to continue posting in a thread when its author has been not simply sanctioned, with the usual removal of points or temporary measures, but was outright banned permanently. What becomes of friendship between ATS members? What does ATS become? A place where you weave ties and meet kindred souls only to find them weeded out? I personally will BOYCOTT this thread from now on. May the light never be made in the Giffords Shootings. ATS will have its way.


Getsmart

reply to post by Getsmart

I don't know about that. Doom is the one who brought me to post in this thread. I came here to support his research in an genuine ATS member gesture of friendship.

It is a sad time indeed. Doom is awesome. He brought out a lot of info about Jared's case - stuff that I didn't even know, and he showed me a lot of stuff that peaked my interest.

Hewlett is alive BTW, we (well, I) phoned him. Didn't talk to him at all - but he called my phone back and left a message wondering who I was. He sounded okay... but I still would love to know what he was doing chanting...

When I googled the "we are the chosen ones" reference - I came up with a bunch of Barak Obama slogans... perhaps he was alluding to that? But WHY? Weird.

The story so far is that Loughner was basically a crazy loner whose previous behavior was not enough to warrant any law enforcement action. But some stray comments and news articles may point to a more serious previous contact with the police, and that Loughner may have been acting as part of a larger clique of individuals:


www.npr.org...
“As we understand it, there have been law enforcement contacts with the individual where he made threats to kill,” Dupnik said during a press conference Saturday evening. But he wouldn’t say who those threats were aimed at.

Two possibilities here: Loughner was investigated by police for threatening to kill someone, or Loughner threatened to kill someone while he was talking to the cops. Either way this is not consistent with the known contacts Loughner had with the school cops at Pima Community College, which involved no overt threats of violence. If Loughner had threatened Giffords before the shooting, you can be sure this fact would have been publicized. Thus from this quote we can surmise the target was someone other than his congressperson.

And this quote suggests there were others who were being investigated for threatening Giffords:

www.azcentral.com...
A Pima County detective called (CA state senator)Sen. Leland Yee's chief of staff on Monday to inquire about some racist faxes Yee received in March or April after he checked into payments made by a California state university to Sarah Palin for a speaking engagement.
"I'm not certain if there is a definite connection" between the threats received by Yee and the Giffords case, (Yee's spokesman Adam)Keigwin said. "He referenced that they are seeing similar faxes in their investigation. I think it has similar terminology. I don't know for sure, but he said they are getting very similar faxes."

Note the Sarah Palin tie-in, again. Once gets the feeling the mass shooting was part of a covert effort to demonize the tea party. Though that link has since been hushed up, as it might implicate a larger group of people, and not just one lone nut. Who would have motivation to marginalize a burgeoning new political movement? TPTB, and the covert operators who were given the task. Interestingly, the following quote suggest Loughner might not have been the isolated loner he has been portrayed as:

www.kpho.com...
Prosecutors asked a federal judge to order the suspect in the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 18 others to submit handwriting samples to compare with documents seized in a search of his home.

18 others? Assuming his parents were asked to submit handwriting samples, you still have 16 people who were close enough to Loughner to be considered as possible co-conspirators. That's a lot more than the handful of firends and ex-girlfriends they have trotted out who admit knowing the accused.

Loughner is an example of how corrupt the court system is. A fake is planted in place of Loughner and no one is the wiser. We are chasing a dead end, literally, because Loughner is already dead. No way would a "conspiracy theorist" kept silent for so long. He would have reported to the media or alternative media by now. At the very least he would share his story of being entrapped to do it. This is sentencing a dead horse.

Originally posted by filosophia No way would a "conspiracy theorist" kept silent for so long. He would have reported to the media or alternative media by now. At the very least he would share his story of being entrapped to do it.

Ever since Lee Harvey Oswald was trotted before the cameras and he blurted out "I'm the patsy!" the authorities simply do not allow the accused to speak out once they are arrested. Try to visit Loughner in jail to get his side of the story. The defense lawyer controls all access and she, of course, is part of the conspiracy.

RELATED:

NASA delays Endeavour Launch

So much for speculation on date. Perhaps Gifford's rehab process hit a glitch?

This whole thing gets curiouser and curiouser.

Hi ATS friends,


I'm still not at all happy about Doomzilla being permanently banned for using quotation marks instead of the dedicated 'EX' feature for quotes at ATS. Apparently the words he was quoting were ATTRIBUTED TO HIM and he was therefore considered the author of politically incorrect remarks and banned from ATS. It appears that in the middle of their political campaign, this site's PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES lost all perspective about their roles as mere discussion forum moderators and KILLED Doomzilla's membership permanently for invalid reasons. If I'm banned for saying this, remember why and by whom. Until that fateful moment arrives, for which in advance I bid the farewell, I shall pursue the quest for truth while upholding the ETHIC OF TRUTHSEEKERS which includes defending JUSTICE at the risk of one's own personal safety and comfort.


reply to post by kinda kurious

Kinda Curious,


It is claimed officially that NASA is scared of sending up a Shuttle at the same time as a SOVIET (yest that isn't a TYPO the KGB having gone underground behind a fake capitalist government) launch of their Memorial Gagarin mission to the Space Station. I guess that Outer Space is so small and minute that there's too great of a statistical chance that they'll smash into one another in the trillions of square miles of space directly surrounding our planet in its close vicinity.


NASA Delays Final Launch of Shuttle Endeavour to Avoid Space Traffic Jam


In the above article it is LEAKED that they are undertaking some mysterious and undisclosed "biological experiment" in the International Space Station. We can wonder if it might have something to do with the strife that was seen to occur during a Space Walk in which it appeared that there was a struggle between an Astronaut or Cosmonaut and some sort of Humanoid Biological Entity.


Alien activity onboard the ISS ?


Are they using the ISS for bizarre OFF PLANET experimentation ? Is there some reason why KGB Colonel Vladimir Putin happened to make a Galactic Phone Call to Gifford's brother in law, one of the TWIN NASA ASTRONAUTS right after the Gifford's shooting ? Is there some sort of ALIEN connection with extraterrestrial mix-ups happening on the site of this structure ? Given the total media blackout and the substitution of propaganda in the place of news, we are entitled to speculate wildly, because if we are totally off base we will be less off track than when believing their purposefully deceptive reports.


There is something deeply bizarre about the Gifford's Shootings and it appears that the tie-in with her husband's profession, Space based Star Wars weapons and various Extraterrestrial aspects of our Earthly affairs, are definitely something to investigate more fully regardless of the efforts of NASA and the NSA to prevent us from learning the truth.


Getsmart

reply to post by Getsmart


Wow, that is a lot of stuff that I haven't heard. More to look into, maybe you are on to something there with the ISS connection...

so Erad says

Was one of your favorite toys a plastic NASA Space Shuttle?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe Erad had an affinity with NASA until he realized it was a hoax. If Erad was Jared, he could have targeted Giffords out of some sort of strange revenge for her husband being connected to NASA, but that still doesn't explain why he would go after Gabrielle and not the astronaut.

Originally posted by Getsmart
There is something deeply bizarre about the Gifford's Shootings and it appears that the tie-in with her husband's profession, Space based Star Wars weapons and various Extraterrestrial aspects of our Earthly affairs, are definitely something to investigate more fully regardless of the efforts of NASA and the NSA to prevent us from learning the truth.

Admittedly, I've monitored this thread with great interest but had dismissed many claims presented and shrugged them off as pure coincidences.....until now. Wow. I do find the connection to Shuttle pilot husband etc to be too fantastic to dismiss in light of recent developments.

If it is any consolation GS, I've archived your post for safe keeping. I too value ultimate truth above personal safety. You've connected som rather interesting dots here. Wow.

Originally posted by filosophia
so Erad says

Was one of your favorite toys a plastic NASA Space Shuttle?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe Erad had an affinity with NASA until he realized it was a hoax. If Erad was Jared, he could have targeted Giffords out of some sort of strange revenge for her husband being connected to NASA, but that still doesn't explain why he would go after Gabrielle and not the astronaut.

To make him suffer. I know for a fact that I would rather die than have to live without my fiance or see any harm befall her. I think that many people would agree with this. So if this was the case, then perhaps he figured that Making him suffer/ruining his family would be better than killing him outright.

That is all

Trowa

reply to post by Getsmart


hey man, doom has a message for you. doom = GhostViking on GLP, look for the thread on Brian Hewlett