Why abortion is legal - why it is not wrong, murder or genocide.

reply to post by byteshertz


I wonder if I can get extra cred two semesters later.

reply to post by Ariel

The Soul Argument:

Here's the thing: we don't have any way of knowing what God would choose to do for those who have been aborted. Maybe that was their one and only chance at life, and instead of being born as (and to) someone else, they go to Heaven . All that they were meant to do, all the lessons that they and those whose lives they were meant to impact, everyone they were supposed to love and be loved by, the children they were meant to grow up and have one day and those generations to come....

...all gone.

Well that sort of puts the kybosh on God being the all knowing, omnipotent being does it not? Why would that soul's only chance be with a host who was unwilling for whatever reason, to give birth to it? Surely God would have known from the outset that this would be the result, if the unborn soul's life path, lessons etc had been decided in advance, then it doesn't seem like the work of someone with an intentional plan.

This is the issue with the God element, on the one hand, we have the above, emotive, God had a plan for that unborn soul and now that cannot happen, but on the other, if God can do that amount of planning, then surely part of the plan would be that the child would be born, and if God knows the outcome of every situtation at the outset, then he'd know also that in the case where a woman gets pregnant in impossible circumstances, that the child never would be born.

And I was always led to believe that God's plans were always adhered to, even when bad things happen, oh well it's part of the plan to get me to where I need to be, so in that vein, it must be assumed that abortion is also part of God's plans.

reply to post by destination now


Regarding God......We have free will, We can make out of our lives what we want. Abortion has nothing to do with God. This is my opinion, We created the mess we are in and we have to get ourselves out of it. If life really is a test then our paths in life can always be changed, We chose the direction we believe in. I understand what you mean and I sometimes also think along those lines...."God must know that the child will be aborted", It's very tricky when you include religion into it.

reply to post by Serizawa


What about cases where the condom breaks? No contraception is 100% guaranteed to prevent pregnancy.

Rape?

What if it is a high-risk pregnancy?

reply to post by Serizawa


Religion is brought into it all the time though, and of course everyone is starring the post I copied based on the poor unborn soul who now cannot follow God's plan.

What if that was God's plan? And yet again we hear of free will, which only seems to exist when convenient, at all other times, it's a case of our life paths already being determined.

I'm not religious btw, but I do believe in a higher power, and I also believe in a woman's right to choose to abort in exactly the same way that nature (or God perhaps?) decides for many women that their pregnancy will end in miscarriage, or stillbirth etc

reply to post by Dendro


If the mothers life is at risk then an abortion is definitely needed. Rape? Well the decision will be based on the mother and still a very difficult situation but it should be allowed in such a case (Even though I would never promote aborting, I'm looking at it from a different perspective). As for the condom breaking, Well this may sound stupid but it is probably the oldest rule in the book, Abstain until marriage.

reply to post by Serizawa


You actually make a valid point about abstinence, and maybe this is where many people, men and women have things to learn, and if someone finds themselves with an unwanted pregnancy from a one night stand, okay the worst reason to abort, but if that event and subsequent decision to abort makes them think in future and change their life, could it not be considered that the abortion was the right thing to do?

reply to post by destination now

From a religious/Believer in a higher power point of view
If you believe in God/Higher power you probably believe in the hereafter. What we do in this world will determine the treatment we receive after death, If God is the all knowing then surely something great awaits the child in the afterlife? As for the mother she is not exempted from her selfishness and the sin of choosing to have a life taken, Unless she aborted due to a life threatening pregnancy.

maybe this is where many people, men and women have things to learn

Most people never learn, They live unresponsively .......They live for the moment and not for a better future and as human beings that is where we self destruct.

reply to post by Serizawa


How do you know that it is selfishness? Perhaps the strength required to make such a decision is character forming, leading to a better person...

And what about the women who suffer countless miscarriages, who is judged for that?

reply to post by destination now


Selfishness is stinginess resulting from a concern for your own welfare and a disregard of others. Does a life have to best lost for one to become a better person? Must the third world war take place before we all re-unite in peace?.....No. As for the miscarriages, Well its a disability to some extent and one cannot cry over spilled milk, You may adopt.

reply to post by Serizawa


Wow, I think it is extremely naive to compare abortion with stinginess. It is a flippant dismissal of the emotional turmoil that women go through when agonizing over a decision.

reply to post by Serizawa


Very often though, it is not selfishness that determines the decision to abort, it can be so many reasons, for example (and I posted this scenario in full on another thread, can't be bothered re-typing it) A woman with 3 kids, divorced from husband, accidently gets pregnant on a one night stand, she has no way of tracing the father, she will lose her job and her home if she continues with the pregnancy and her 3 existing children will suffer terribly as a result, and they've already suffered the breakdown of theirn parents relationship and don't see their father because he can't be bothered.

She decides to abort, keeps her job, her home and her remaining children happy and secure, she regrets that she was so stupid to have a one night stand and vows never to do it again, and does not. How is she selfish?

reply to post by Dendro


As i stated it depends on how you get pregnant, And we stated that before. One night stand = pregnancy = abortion = selfishness.....making a decision based on your welfare and neglecting a child who came to be due to your negligence/Ignorance however you may want to look at it, We cannot use the same word (negligence/ignorance etc) for everyone who has aborted.

reply to post by destination now

she will lose her job and her home if she continues with the pregnancy and her 3 existing children will suffer terribly as a result

Well if she had thought about this before she mingled the situation could have well be avoided. Hey "live by the gun, die by the gun" Playing with fire will get you burnt sooner or later.

I'm glad we have been able to discuss the mater rather maturely and you're views are been sincerely considered. Convince me...

reply to post by Serizawa


Life is not black - and - white and situations are never simple. There are cases that you can't account for with such a cut and dry approach. Nor are people perfect and to ask them to be accountable to every mistake they make in life is ridiculous.

reply to post by Dendro


I'm not asking everyone to be perfect, We have brains, We can use them. Some peoples actions can never be justified......Just like some abortions. It also depends on your stage in pregnancy during the abortion. In third world countries they toss the dead fetuses in large rubbish piles, Not the prettiest of sights I've had.

reply to post by Serizawa


This isn't the third world, at least not where I am.

What about the guy in the one-night stand? Are they exempt from any blame because they are not the ones who end up pregnant?

reply to post by Dendro


They share the blame equally, They are part of the problem and in many cases the cause of the problem, Are we only discussing Abortion in the USA? If so then I guess I do not have much to contribute to this thread. Step outside the box and look at the bigger picture, The best step forward is abstinence......and it will never happen.

reply to post by Serizawa


Canada, not the US, though I assumed the topic was geared more towards the US politics of abortions.

Week 5: 1.5 - 2.5 mm (fetus length) at five weeks, all basic body systems are developing, including the brain and nervous system enabling the fetus to feel pain.

This is not true.

en.wikipedia.org...

The accepted hypothesis of the means by which pain is perceived states that it requires certain physical structures and operations. These are not formed in fetuses until 20 weeks or more. The general consensus of the scientific community at this time is that only fetuses of this age or older are capable of perceiving pain.

Though many researchers in the area of fetal development agree a fetus is unlikely to feel pain until after the seventh month of pregnancy,[2][3] developmental neurobiologists suspect that the establishment of thalamocortical connections (at about 26 weeks) may be critical to fetal perception of pain.[7]

Not even talking about the active higher brain (brain waves) are not present up until 20-24 weeks of development, and without them, you cannot feel anything since there is no sentience.

eileen.250x.com...

I dont think human life (or any life) which is not also a human person or being should be protected. Otherwise we could not disconnect brain dead patients or make transplantations, since they are still alive in the biological sense.