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Your choices end where another human being is, so long their existence does not endanger your own..
Your choices end where another human being is, so long their existence is not immediatly going to end your own..
Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Sinnthia
So are smokers, so are factory workers, etc etc. Welcome to humanity. We risk our lives to do things. That's no reason to change. By having sex out of free will you are accepting the risks and dangers. And if those risks and dangers are assured to lead to your death, you have the right to opt out at that moment. You don't have a right to terminate life that comes about as a result of that free will and pursuit of happiness because it's annoying or an inconvenience. We conveniently provided many sources of protection for both you and the man involved. If you chose to ignore them, tough luck. But if you're about to die, we have to act to save A life. You have a right to life liberty and a pursuit of happiness, You have no rights to be happy, you must reach that through your choices and wise decision making.
Originally posted by Gorman91
Ergo, your point is nor valid, as the choice was made to take on that risk a long long time before the child became a risk.
Originally posted by Gorman91
Technically my existence at this very moment is endangering you. At any moment an electrical signal might come off my body, by random chance hit you, and by random chance kill you. This is not warding off topic. it's simple common sense. Risk and danger is not the same as "holy crap I'm going to die if this pregnancy doesn't end today". Please do not twist my words, you should know full well what they mean.
Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Sinnthia
Welcome to the wonderful world of logic based thinking. Get morals out of your way and any need to defend your own points and make it precisely true or false. Maybe looking at the world in black and white is a bad thing. But I've not yet come up with any real problems with it. There can be no gray.
Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by byteshertz
Nice, ATSters making threads in my honour!
I understand your arguments, but my opinion is simple, Murder is wrong, murder is abortion, abortion is wrong.
I cannot defend the murder of what I see as innocent children, yet I have been flamed for these views on the thread I authored that the OP is discussing. I must commend the OP however as s/he has not taken part in the flaming, trolling and insults that have plagued that thread.
Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by Gorman91
You constant shifting and personal attacks are unconvincing at best.
Beginners Biology
Please educate yourself a little because you are saying some very uninformed sounding things. I can only handle so much abortion talk at a time. Not quite the fan some of you are. I will give you some time to learn at least some basic biology. Specifically consentrate on reproduction.edit on 26-2-2011 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by vjr1113
Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by byteshertz
Nice, ATSters making threads in my honour!
I understand your arguments, but my opinion is simple, Murder is wrong, murder is abortion, abortion is wrong.
I cannot defend the murder of what I see as innocent children, yet I have been flamed for these views on the thread I authored that the OP is discussing. I must commend the OP however as s/he has not taken part in the flaming, trolling and insults that have plagued that thread.
oh for crying out loud a spec of unconscious lifeless goo is not a child quit being so dramaticedit on 26-2-2011 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Sinnthia
Welcome to the wonderful world of logic based thinking. Get morals out of your way and any need to defend your own points and make it precisely true or false. Maybe looking at the world in black and white is a bad thing. But I've not yet come up with any real problems with it. There can be no gray.
Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by igor_ats
Sperm and egg do not have full human dna...left to natural processes....sperm nor egg will ever develop into a human.
Originally posted by MindSpin
You tell me...what is a good enough qualifier???
Originally posted by MindSpin
How is cold hard science not good enough for you???
Why should we grant personhood to sperms and eggs? They're both human and alive right? As for the unique DNA angle see previous link.
Originally posted by MindSpin
NO...they are not.
Originally posted by MindSpin
You will find no biologist that will claim that sperm and egg are human and alive.
Originally posted by MindSpin
When was the last time a sperm or an egg by themselves developed into a human???
Originally posted by MindSpin
There is a specific point when the proccess of life begins...it's the same in every animal and plant....there is no other marker. If you believe there is...please tell me what that criteria is.
Originally posted by MindSpin
And from your other source....unique DNA as distinguished from the parent...that is what the word "unique" means in my argument. It has to be used, or people will foolishly try to claim the fetus is just a growth in the female, similar to a tumor.
Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by byteshertz
The baby has life once it's heart beats and when u deny it that...you murder it
Well when the baby is forming and u get an abortion it is still alive...u cant say that it is not alive or does not have life so yes its murder.
Originally posted by randomname
we all start out life when the egg is fertilized. before that you wouldn't exist. preventing someone from existing is murder. it's that simple.
and you can't deny it's life, because if it was dead it wouldn't grow.
Originally posted by randomname
well, the nazi's passed law and implemented the mass murder of millions of jews. according to their laws it was not illegal. therefore it was not murder.
See this link about the natural process fallacy:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
IVF is not a natural process, neither is cloning.
I answered this here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Unique DNA is not a good enough qualifier for personhood status since we can create people via cloning technology (iow not unique DNA).
That's a question for you. Why should unique DNA be the basis for personhood status for the reasons given in the above link?
They have human DNA and are alive. Human. . . "a human". A human ovum, a human toe. . .
They're not persons though.
They have human DNA and are alive.
When was the last time a zygote in a test tube developed into a human by themselves?
Something that has the potential to become a person does not automatically become a person. A skin cell has the potential to become a person. See this link for the fallacy flowchart:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
After all, you do know that spontaneous abortion is humanities biggest killler if the pro-life logic applies.
Unique DNA argument is a fallacy. . . with future cloned technology, a cloned person is a still a person. A brainless organism such as a zygote embryo or fetus is not a person. See IVF.