Abortion, Genocide, what’s THE difference?!?!?!?!?.... do you condone murder???

Originally posted by kalamatas
I feel abortion is wrong as well, but also feel terrible for the kind of life a child might endure who was unwanted to begin with. In situations other than rape every woman has a choice to be responsible and to NOT get pregnant.

****Only the Woman has a choice to be reponsible? So who actually got her pregnant? She got herself pregnant? Like another poster said?

If you are going to have sex for anything other than it's sole intended purpose, you'd better darn well be responsible enough to take the necessary precautions that will prevent another life from being created and destroyed, be it in the womb or through a crappy life.

****So we should only have sex when we entend to create another life?
Are you allright with that?
How about your significant other?
If the sole intended purpose of sex was procreation, that why is it that there only only about 7 days of the month when this is likely to happen? Why aren't humans like other creatures that have a specific breeding season?

And while I don't think abortion is right, and definitely should in the least have term limits, we should rest assured that God will hand down the punishment for those that choose abortion as a method to remedy their irresponsible actions.

****I guess you didn't read the part of the bible where god destroys pregnant women and rips the babies out of their bellies.

Heres a very real scenario for the religious fundamentalists to think about.

A friend of my family was raped and became pregnant when she was 17.

Due to extreme pressure from the fundamentalist christian church she was a member of (which coincidentally, the rapist was a member of too) she kept the baby because "abortion is murder".

She suffered EXTREME post natal depression as this child was a constant reminder of the pain and suffering she had endured, however raised the child to the beautiful age of 16, when the child learnt through gossip and rumors in the church that they were the product of rape. (The mother had until this point, not mentioned the conception of the child).

The child then went and hung themself in the garage. They didnt want to be alive if they were the product of a horrible brutal sexual assault.

The church blamed the mother for not "living a proper christian lifestyle" and for "living in sin" with her boyfriend - who was providing financial and emotional support for both the mother and child.

So as far as I'm concerned? A foetus conceived through anger and assault, might as well be sent back to god before they have to endure a world of guilt, confusion and emotional trauma.

I love bailouts!
Let's bail out all the banks that made horrible decisions!
Too big to fail!

Also, while we are at it..
Rape aside, let's bailout all the people that made bad life decisions and didn't use protection
Too Innocent to fail, allow them to abort

I mean personal responsibility is so cliché
We would succeed in life and progress way more if we bailed out more bad decisions!!!

Originally posted by kalamatas
reply to post by MindSpin

 

So when someone is declared dead in a hospital, do they do this by monitoring cell division under a microscope?
An ovum has no heartbeat, and is not functioning of it's own personal mechanism yet. Isn't an ovum still the replicating of the cells of the mother and father?

Yes the ovum is life, but I believe it could be argued as to wether or not it is an individual life yet. Could it be that the soul is placed in the life when the heart beat begins, and then the spirit begins to come in when the brain begins to function?

I have not mentioned the "soul" one time in this conversation...I am not dealing with the "soul" here...just the biological process of life.

An Ovum is an egg...we aren't talking about eggs here...we are talking about fertilized eggs...which is then called an embryo.

Basic biology here.

reply to post by Cybermerc


Oh so you don't believe me, you want me to put my childrens details up on here?

Sorry. I choose to post on here they don't so I won't go into details.

reply to post by Ezekiel

Heres a very real scenario for the religious fundamentalists to think about.

Which religious fundamentalist are you talking to???

I haven't seen any....you know you can disagree with abortion without having religious reasons for it...right???

reply to post by SevenBeans


How many of those are conservative, pro-life Christians?

Originally posted by eletheia
I bet finiance is WAY, WAY, WAY, down the list of priorities of ANY woman who makes a

decession on abortion.

It's actually near the top.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Let's bail out anyone that's not a small-government, tea-drinking leech.

They can enjoy their canned yams and beet juice.

reply to post by MindSpin


My example of the brainless body is that the brainless body would still undergo cell division. So by your definition this brainless body is still a living human being?

It is not a question of mere artificiality, it is a question of what constitutes a living human being, and that is a functioning brain (even in the least), something a pre-10 week baby does not have and is compared to any other cell. Just because it can become a human being, does not necessarily mean it is a human being yet, just as a living human being can die, does not mean it is dead. It is not a time traveling baby, when signs of brain activity begin to occur, it becomes a living human being.

Your perception (and the general) that any organism undergoing cell-division is a living human being, can have quite wide-ranging resultant perceptions and questions; are bacteria on a petridish that are undergoing cell-division a living being?

reply to post by OhZone

So we should only have sex when we entend to create another life?
Are you allright with that?

I'm alright with that.

I use contraception, but am aware that it isn't 100%. If my actions result in pregnancy...I fully take responsibility for my actions.


Personal responsibility people...I think a lot of people need more of it.

reply to post by MindSpin



Yes I do - and admittedly I stopped reading through this thread when I read a post along the lines of..

"God will punish those blah blah blah"

I understand that people can have non religious reasons for opposing abortion, though I would struggle to accept an argument from someone suggesting a child conceived through rape should not be aborted or that the mother should not at least have THE CHOICE to abort it.

If the mother chooses to keep the child - that is fantastic.

If she chooses not to, that is a shame and a waste of a life but its the mothers choice what to do and until someone has been through a rape pregnancy, I dont feel they have any right to tell someone else what they should do.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I love bailouts!
Let's bail out all the banks that made horrible decisions!
Too big to fail!

Also, while we are at it..
Rape aside, let's bailout all the people that made bad life decisions and didn't use protection
Too Innocent to fail, allow them to abort

I mean personal responsibility is so cliché
We would succeed in life and progress way more if we bailed out more bad decisions!!!

What???? How are you/we bailing someone out, when they make a choice to terminate a pregnancy? It seems to me the "bail out" comes when the mother goes on welfare, because they decided to keep it.....

Too innocent to fail, is the newborn baby. Someone who makes the decision to terminate is taking control of their destiny.

reply to post by SevenBeans





HOW WOULD YOU KNOW are you privvy to the anguish and thoughts of every woman

who has had or contemplated an abortion ??

Originally posted by OhZone

Originally posted by kalamatas
I feel abortion is wrong as well, but also feel terrible for the kind of life a child might endure who was unwanted to begin with. In situations other than rape every woman has a choice to be responsible and to NOT get pregnant.

****Only the Woman has a choice to be reponsible? So who actually got her pregnant? She got herself pregnant? Like another poster said?

If you are going to have sex for anything other than it's sole intended purpose, you'd better darn well be responsible enough to take the necessary precautions that will prevent another life from being created and destroyed, be it in the womb or through a crappy life.

****So we should only have sex when we entend to create another life?
Are you allright with that?
How about your significant other?
If the sole intended purpose of sex was procreation, that why is it that there only only about 7 days of the month when this is likely to happen? Why aren't humans like other creatures that have a specific breeding season?

And while I don't think abortion is right, and definitely should in the least have term limits, we should rest assured that God will hand down the punishment for those that choose abortion as a method to remedy their irresponsible actions.

****I guess you didn't read the part of the bible where god destroys pregnant women and rips the babies out of their bellies.

Sure it takes two to tango, but if you , as a woman, are the one who may end up with a child in your womb, damn right you'd better be responsible. That includes putting a rubber on your partner if he's an idiot, or don't do it if the idiot refuses.

Sex should be a part of a relationship, not a casual encounter outside of a committed relationship. If sex, in a committed relationship is done without the intent to create life, get a vasectomy, get your tubes tied, or be okay with it if you do get pregnant in spite of wearing a condom, diaphragm, taking the pill etc. etc..

What I was meaning by the God comment was that regardless of wether we outlaw abortion or not, for those who have religious views about it, they shouldn't be too concerned since God will handle those who've committed true murder in the end.

Originally posted by Conciliatore
reply to post by geekyone

 

And , did you made anythings to prevent rapes ?

Imbecile !

Your arguments are even less constructives than mines.

Abortion is a RIGHT, your misogynism is insulting, womens have the right to have the choice to give birth or NOT.
Why are you thinking, in your arrogance and ignorance you can judge a woman who abordted, as a whore ?

Are you yourself a saint ?

Do you consider yourself as better than anyones to judge others choices.

The fetus is nothing more than a piece of flesh , its not like killing millions of peoples.

Can you for a second, imagine how does it feel to get raped and have to carry a kid from that trauma?

With my heart, i wish your daughter, girlfriend, mother, wife , get raped and get pregnant from it.
So this way, you might be able to tell me how does it feel to live with it

You clearly have not read any of my posts, I am not a man.
I have been to court and seen a rapist locked up, I take in unwanted children,
This may be an excuse for an arguement for you but to some of us this is real life. So tell me what have you been doing?

I have tried to be nice and have a reasonable discussion. I have tried not to insult anyone.
You have upset me and I am logging off.
Thanks to all the posters that were civil even if we disagreed

reply to post by Somehumanbeing

My example of the brainless body is that the brainless body would still undergo cell division. So by your definition this brainless body is still a living human being?

What happens to that brainless body the second it is taken off artificial life support???

Like I said...you are inserting an artificial process into a discussion about the natural process of life. It seems to be your only argument.

But again...I am speaking of the natural process of life...and you are talking extreme unethical science experiments.

It is not a question of mere artificiality, it is a question of what constitutes a living human being, and that is a functioning brain (even in the least), something a pre-10 week baby does not have and is compared to any other cell. Just because it can become a human being, does not necessarily mean it is a human being yet, just as a living human being can die, does not mean it is dead. It is not a time traveling baby, when signs of brain activity begin to occur, it becomes a living human being.

Will those cells develop into anything else besides a human being??? Do some start to turn into dogs? Do some start to devlope into an extra heart?

No...if the process is left to it's natural process...the cells develop into a fully formed human being.

And yes..you are worrying me about your logic...because there are patients in a coma with no brain activity kept alive on life support. Some of those patients have recovered. You are suggesting they are not human and free to be killed. Scary stuff.

Your perception (and the general) that any organism undergoing cell-division is a living human being, can have quite wide-ranging resultant perceptions and questions; are bacteria on a petridish that are undergoing cell-division a living being?

No, not ANY organism undergoing cell-division...I never said ANY cell-division is a living human being. I said once a human sperm fertilizes a human egg and THOSE cells start dividing...it is a human life.

When a dog sperm fertilizes a dog egg and cells start dividing...it is the start of a new dog life.

Is bacteria alive...yes...at the basic level it is alive. And if you believe in evolution...I would think you also think a bacteria is "alive".

reply to post by Ezekiel

Yes I do - and admittedly I stopped reading through this thread when I read a post along the lines of..

"God will punish those blah blah blah"

I most of missed those posts...a direct quote or a link to the post would be nice

You seemed to suggest that the thread was filled with posts like that...so it shouldn't be too hard for you to provide at least 5-10 examples in 18 pages of posts.

reply to post by MindSpin


Basic biology? I miscarried at 8 weeks with a blighted ovum. No heartbeat yet.

Originally posted by eletheia
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW are you privvy to the anguish and thoughts of every woman

who has had or contemplated an abortion ??

They've asked.

www.johnstonsarchive.net...