Jesus predicted in the Vedas

The Bhavisya Purana is considered to be one of the major 18 Puranas of the Vedic canon. As the name suggests, it mainly deals with future events (bhaviysati):

“In the middle of the Huna country (Hunadesa – the area near Manasa Sarovara or Kailasa mountain in Western Tibet), the powerful king saw an auspicious man who was living on a mountain. The man’s complexion was golden and his clothes were white.” (19:22)

“I am the Son of God (isa-putra) and I am born of a virgin (kumari-garbha).”(19:23)

“Please hear from me, O King, about the religion that I have established amongst the Mlecchas. The mind should be purified by taking recourse of proper conduct, since we are subject to auspicious and inauspicious contaminations – by following the scriptures and concentrating on japa (repetition of God’s names) one will attain the highest level of purity; by speaking true words and by mental harmony, and by meditation and worship, O descendant of Manu. Just as the immovable sun attracts from all directions the elements of all living beings, the Lord who resides in the Surya-mandala (sun globe) and is fixed and all-attractive, attracts the hearts of all living creatures.” (19:28-30)

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Now mind you this pre-dates the New Testament and Jesus' arrival onto the whole Jewish-scene.

reply to post by dominicus


The only thing that makes this sound a bit like Jesus is the virgin birth bit.

The philosophy espoused is diametrically opposed to that spoken of by Jesus, specifically where he spoke of the 'heathen' who prayed incorrectly through "vain repetition" (Matthew 6:7)

Ok you do know that there are a large number of "dying and reborn" male deities all over mythology, and almost all PREDATE the Carpenter called Jesus.

Here is a short list:
Baldur (well he's not back yet, but after the Ragnarok he will be).
Adonis
Dyanosis
Attis
Mithras
Kristina

There are more comprehensive lists out there, but sorry no this was NOT predicting a rather obscure ethnic groups savior (Jesus) who actually has not saved them (the Jews think he is still on the way).

Nice idea, but no biscuit.

reply to post by Noinden

Ok you do know that there are a large number of "dying and reborn" male deities all over mythology, and almost all PREDATE the Carpenter called Jesus.

Oh you mean you saw Zeitgeist and think its still true? WOw ....the "religion" part of zeigeist has been discredited by many scholars.

Here is a short list: Baldur (well he's not back yet, but after the Ragnarok he will be). Adonis Dyanosis Attis Mithras Kristina

yeah unfortunately for you, I've researched that list in the past and found nothing about any of them being born of a virgin. FAIL!!!!! ...by the way .....you've misspelled many of them ...especially the last one ....Kristina is actually one of my aunts and No my aunt Kristina was not born of a virgin.

There are more comprehensive lists out there, but sorry no this was NOT predicting a rather obscure ethnic groups savior (Jesus) who actually has not saved them (the Jews think he is still on the way).

if Jewish is obscure, then I'm confused ...because I think everyone would agree Jews are everywhere.

Also Jesus himself says that Jews have hardened hearts and are hard headed ...that only certain folks would "get it," seems like your not one of them.

Nice idea, but no biscuit.

Should apply this to your own post..... big Ol' FAIL

reply to post by dominicus


Can you provide dating on this? The depiction of Ya'hshuah in here sounds like the India myth common among Gnostics, but he doesn't seem very Gnostic in character. There are also hints of adoptionism, which is the belief that Ya'hshuah wasn't Son of God from birth and was "adopted" at baptism when he took up the mantle of prophet hood. It sounds more to me that whoever wrote this was inspired by Nestorian monks who traveled as far east as Japan by 300 A.D. Or maybe this is true and the Nestorians were right. I personally didn't find the Nestorian heresy as bad as the Manichaean and Cathar heresies (no, I do not support the Albigensian crusade; they were wrong, not evil).

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Noinden

 

Ok you do know that there are a large number of "dying and reborn" male deities all over mythology, and almost all PREDATE the Carpenter called Jesus.

Oh you mean you saw Zeitgeist and think its still true? WOw ....the "religion" part of zeigeist has been discredited by many scholars.

Here is a short list: Baldur (well he's not back yet, but after the Ragnarok he will be). Adonis Dyanosis Attis Mithras Kristina

yeah unfortunately for you, I've researched that list in the past and found nothing about any of them being born of a virgin. FAIL!!!!! ...by the way .....you've misspelled many of them ...especially the last one ....Kristina is actually one of my aunts and No my aunt Kristina was not born of a virgin.

There are more comprehensive lists out there, but sorry no this was NOT predicting a rather obscure ethnic groups savior (Jesus) who actually has not saved them (the Jews think he is still on the way).

if Jewish is obscure, then I'm confused ...because I think everyone would agree Jews are everywhere.

Also Jesus himself says that Jews have hardened hearts and are hard headed ...that only certain folks would "get it," seems like your not one of them.

Nice idea, but no biscuit.

Should apply this to your own post..... big Ol' FAIL

Wow, you FAIL! Not all figures in the zeitgeist film were debunked, only 3 or 4. There are still PLENTY of other people throughout history that were born of a virgin birth etc.. Stop lying about things you obviously HAVE NOT researched, because if you had, instead of reading topic titles and assuming then you would know this to be true. Nice try though..

reply to post by Ear-Responsible

Wow, you FAIL! Not all figures in the zeitgeist film were debunked, only 3 or 4. There are still PLENTY of other people throughout history that were born of a virgin birth etc.. Stop lying about things you obviously HAVE NOT researched, because if you had, instead of reading topic titles and assuming then you would know this to be true. Nice try though..

sources?

that is all for now

reply to post by dominicus


Just how old are you? "Epic Fail" really? I have no idea what movie you are talking about kid, I am talking about my extensive study of ancient myths and legends. That is where my knowledge comes from.

Jesus is NOT unique in mythology (and just like them, there is no absolute proof he existed in the flesh!).

SO again I say, your point? Prove it to me. You made the claim, thus the onus is on you.

reply to post by Noinden

I am talking about my extensive study of ancient myths and legends. That is where my knowledge comes from.

Oh ok that's great !!!!! So now that we know the source is yourself and your studies, we can all now rest easy. EPIC FAIL on me .....for failure to realize Noiden as his own source. You win!!!

Jesus is NOT unique in mythology (and just like them, there is no absolute proof he existed in the flesh!).

This in itself is a whole other thread. However it easy to point out that his existence being in question is something that maybe .01% of scholars hold. But of course the source of Jesus' existence being a myth is yourself ...so again this means there is no way I can win.

SO again I say, your point? Prove it to me. You made the claim, thus the onus is on you.

There is nothing for me to prove..... its completely unnecessary since you've already made up your mind and your source is your own studies.

The point of this thread is that Jesus is predicted in the Vedas. IF you really want, we can both fly together to India and see some scholars and see the original text which predates the NT ...and shows Jesus mentioned in it....... but if your studies also suggest that there is no such thing as India, then the possibilities of trip like this would bear no fruit.

en.wikipedia.org...

Have at it bro. I'm not going to research things for you. If that doesn't help, a simple google search will bring up countless pages of information.

dominicus, thus far you've only proven how immature you are. So again, with feeling, prove it to me.

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by dominicus

 

The only thing that makes this sound a bit like Jesus is the virgin birth bit.

The philosophy espoused is diametrically opposed to that spoken of by Jesus, specifically where he spoke of the 'heathen' who prayed incorrectly through "vain repetition" (Matthew 6:7)

edit on 22/2/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

Good spotting dude, that part did not cross my mind!

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


But bear in mind that there is an underlying assumption here. Dont swallow it without thinking first.

The assumption is that the Bible always accurately reflects Jesus teachings. If there was a spiritual teacher called Jesus, perhaps what he taught was closer to that quoted in text above, rather than the Bible, or some parts of the Bible. Other texts from the period show Jesus teaching things remarkably similar to advaita vedanta. But the Bible books were carefully selected to suit a Church agenda.

Bear in mind too that there may well be a distinct difference between repetitive PRAYER in order to atempt to supplicate God and get him to give you something, or so as to appear righteous before people and, on the other hand, meditative repetition to clear and focus the mind of frivolous distractions, 'purifying' it. There is a difference that the post you quoted does not identify. Jesus was talking about people imagining they will get things from God or be heard by him by babbling on repetitively, whereas this is NOT what is described above.

reply to post by chr0naut


The 'only thing'?

Lets look again.

1. It says he is 'the Son of God'.

2. Born of a virgin.

3. He was wearing white. Need I reference all of the prophesies and descriptions of Jesus in white?

4. His complexion is mentioned as being different to someone from the region. It is said to be golden. So hes in white, with a golden face, on a mountain, hes called the Son of God. Where have I heard that before?

After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his
clothes became as white as the light... a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, This
is my Son. - Matthew 17

Yep, all the elements there.

There are many more correspondences. Its worth investigating the name too. Lots to discover for those with an open mind.

Originally posted by Noinden
Ok you do know that there are a large number of "dying and reborn" male deities all over mythology, and almost all PREDATE the Carpenter called Jesus..

Yeah, now why is that then...
...that all these preceed the Carpenter but none follow Him...
...could it be the entities knew the Hebrew predictions...
...and sought to muddy the waters a bit so the Carpenter would not look so special maybe.

Just a thought...
...you can also compile a similar list of virgin birth...
...that preceed the Carpenter...
...again, was it to dilute the circumstances of the birth of the Carpenter?

You certainly don't get too many reborns or miraculous births afterward...
...I smell a rat (or is it a serpent?).

reply to post by troubleshooter


Oh Gods above and below, you are not going to bring the old chestnut of "plagiarism by anticipation" up? I am also going to have to point out that there are a number of folks who still worship these dying and reborn men. Neopagan,s Zhorostrans, ... and yes Hindu

Could it be, that perhaps Jesus is a copy of them?

Well, to bring this squarely back on topic, I just watched the video - I was impressed after seeing it (having been unimpressed with the quoted material in the OP, insofar as it didn't really seem to back up the key claim - that Jesus was predicted in the vedas) .


In the video, the Christ-figure is quoted as saying:

I am the expounder of the religion of the Mlecchas, and I strictly adhere to the Absolute Truth.

To which the King replied:

What are the religious principles according to your opinion?

Christ responds:

The mind should be purified by taking recourse of proper conduct, since we are subject to auspicious and inauspicious contaminations – by following the scriptures and concentrating on japa (repetition of God’s names) one will attain the highest level of purity; by speaking true words and by mental harmony, and by meditation and worship, O descendant of Manu.

in response to Chr0naut's comment about the 'vain repetition':

To my understanding, simple repetition in the form of mantras, meditative chanting etc is not 'vain repetition'. The hollow, ceremonial prayers of the religious leaders of Jesus' day (Pharisees & Sadducees) are more likely what Jesus was referring to. The common Jewish folk would be very familiar with the pompous and out-of-touch religious 'snakes' chiming out their hot-air prayers, full of false piety and self-righteousness - vain and repetitious.

Regular Jewish folk probably wouldn't have any experience of the meditative chanting of mantras, as practiced by Hindu/ Buddhist monks. Occam's razor applies here - if the target audience was unlikely to be familiar with the chanting we're discussing, it is unlikely that Christ was referring to that kind of chanting.

To fully cement what I'm getting at; meditative chanting is (imho) not a vain exercise in itself - if undertaken correctly it is a means to empty the mind of earthly thoughts, to make space for a communion with God.

Having said all that it's important to note that any form of prayer can be 'vain repetition', if your heart isn't in the right place...

The principles espoused by the Christ-figure (in the vedic extract presented in the video/OP) show that there is no disproportionate focus on meditative chanting ("repetition of God's names") beyond the sort of 'self-edification' evident when a modern Christian 'prays in tongues'... A similar meditative state would be induced with either practice if done correctly and for a long enough period of time...

Christ (when he came to the Jewish people to complete the ministry which led him to the cross) said that the Holy Spirit would be sent after his death, resurrection and ascension, to be a 'helper' to all who believed in Him and his message. Perhaps the Spirit enables those without formal training in meditative chanting / mystic theology to 'attain the highest level of purity'..? It was Paul the apostle who said we should seek the gift of prophecy beyond the ability to self-edify by praying in tongues. Many modern ministers/ shepherds of the flock have interpreted that advice incorrectly (at least in part) - and imho this has led to a misunderstanding of the purpose and importance of the gift. Perhaps the ability to pray in tongues is the first gift listed simply because it is one of the most crucial? The gift that enables people to get into spiritualised meditative states - 'attaining the highest level of purity' - by focusing on God, even in the midst of daily routines.

When I pray in tongues it strengthens my resolve and 'spirit', leading me to feel a greater assurance of God's presence. I end up feeling more comfortable with my current experience of life, and if I pray in that way for any length of time (beyond ten minutes or so) I begin to feel spiritually energised, or 'anointed'. The text also stipulates the importance of...

speaking true words and by mental harmony, and by meditation and worship

So - there really is no way to suggest that any of this is out of line with Jesus' teachings as per his words in the New Testament.



Back to the video:


This next bit, quoted in the OP, is omitted (? possible misquote ?) by the person who made the video:

Just as the immovable sun attracts from all directions the elements of all living beings, the Lord who resides in the Surya-mandala (sun globe) and is fixed and all-attractive, attracts the hearts of all living creatures.”

And instead of the above, the next bit is included in the video:

Having placed the eternally pure and auspicious form of the Supreme Lord in my heart, O protector of the earth planet, I preached these principles through the mlechhas own faith - and thus my name became 'Isha-Masiha'

[NOTE - 'Isha Masiha' is translated in the video subtitles as 'Jesus the Messiah']

NB - I'm keen to know whether that translation to 'planet' is accurate, because it could indicate quite advanced astronomical knowledge if it is...

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Summary - the text seems to corroborate the suggestion that the same Christ we are familiar with appeared to the 'descendant of Manu' King. Unfortunately the OP doesn't really go into as much detail as he could or should have to support the ideas being expressed.

I would like to find out a bit more about the legitimacy of the translation of the words 'Isha Masiha', 'Mlecchas' and 'descendent of Manu'. For the time being, I'm taking them in context to mean 'Jesus, Messiah', 'Semitic peoples', and 'descendent of a patriarch named Manu' or - intriguing possibility - 'son of man'...

Last note, concerning the obscure identity of the King. In the text, Christ addresses the king as ['protector of the earth planet'] - is this king an incarnate angel/ avatar, or perhaps the mysterious Melchizedek of Old Testament fame..??? The clues are in the identity of the people he 'subdued' - the 'Sakas'. I'll be digging around a bit to find out any more I can, because I'm hooked on this one now...

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One final note - Dominicus - thanks for bringing this to our attention (I hadn't come across these verses before) - but any thread dealing with the highest ideals of religious expression and divine personages like Christ probably shouldn't turn into a back and forth mudslinging festival, incorporating phrases like 'epic fail'.... Never mind...

People follow something that (allegedly) was said many many years ago as if at that time people were saints, not knowing what was going on at that time. One will never believe 100% on others (actual people) word but they believe in something they were told to believe ?!?

reply to post by MightyWizard


I believe because of my personal experiences of the presence and power of God. I spent years looking for spiritual answers and came up with nothing, and I actively avoided a Christian path, thinking it was the least attractive option. When a very specific prayer was answered in a clear and not-open-to-interpretation manner; that was when I realised that maybe I'd been missing the point; that there was more to Christianity than met the eye. Soon after I was baptised - in water, and then in spirit.

I'm quite 'backslidden' in many ways, but I still try to speak with God on a daily basis, throughout my daily routines - I try to live according to the moral standards of Christ's teachings. I don't always agree with mainstream Christian teachers and pastors etc, and some of the doctrine I find hard to accept. I believe in lots of stuff the church won't touch with a ten-foot barge pole, but my core experiences of God are unchanged, and are most often found in Christian teaching/worship meetings during the prayer response time at the end. If you find yourself at such a meeting, and they say 'does anyone need prayer', make your way down there - it can be life-changing.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


So are you open to the idea that a 'Source' represents itself to people in various ways around the world, depending on their culture and level of understanding, and that there may not be a true religion, as such, just a mode of spirituality that is appropriate to someone for a certain time?

Do you see the spiritual core of many religions and spiritualities, the mystical experience, to be essentially the same?

After all, the OP and the idea of ancient buddhists or advaitins prophesying a teacher such as Jesus might hint at such a commonality below the apparent external differences.