Yikes! The Uterus Police!

reply to post by SevenBeans

Wow. Talk about putting words in someone's mouth. You might be blowing this out of proportion if you simma down and think about this logically.

In addition, you may have missed the question about your thoughts on legislating men who drink alcohol and take drugs that cause chromosomal damage. You know, as contrasted to putting this all on the women.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Wow. Talk about putting words in someone's mouth. You might be blowing this out of proportion if you simma down and think about this logically.

He said no exceptions, even when asked specifically about parents who kill their kids... maybe you should think about this logically?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
In addition, you may have missed the question about your thoughts on legislating men who drink alcohol and take drugs that cause chromosomal damage. You know, as contrasted to putting this all on the women.

Sure if there's a willful disregard and a clear cause and effect, like I said before though only the grossest most obvious negligence could ever be punished.

reply to post by SevenBeans


So you think we need another law in order for this not to happen? Has it ever been ok to rape or beat children?

Come on dude! Why are you arguing anything here? NO ONE thinks it's ok here. We just don't need ANOTHER law to control our nation. We as a people are capable of maintaining the human condition without the police involved in our every step.

Live and let live is what I say, Karma is a bitch, and takes care of all eventually, good or bad.

Guaranteed you won't like a world where your every step is controlled, it may start here, with something most don't like, like child abuse, but it's a slippery slope opening up more and more authority and control to your govt.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Wow. Talk about putting words in someone's mouth. You might be blowing this out of proportion if you simma down and think about this logically.

He said no exceptions, even when asked specifically about parents who kill their kids... maybe you should think about this logically?

And yet, you jumped to the most heinous thing you could think of in an attempt to paint me as a monster. Fine. Get out your brushes.

No Exceptions. I do not think that our actions should be relegated to the musings of a few wealthy and powerful people of questionable ethics who deem to consider their morals better than everyone elses.

If that means there wil be communities where people rape and murder, then that's the way it is. I tend to have more faith in the families and friends who would take steps to stop such actions. If a friend of mine raped or murdered their child, I would consider it my duty to hold that person accountable.

If we lived in smaller communities where people were more involved then we would not need laws to regulate every aspect of our lives. Troublemakers would be dealt with. The problem with the "what about this" approach is that everytime you claim moral authority over an entire group of people, you open that community up to yet another seizure of rights.

I think communities are more than capable of taking care of themselves. Native tribes all over the world are doing just fine without "Fearless Leader" watching over them. When a person becomes a troublemaker and starts doing things to endanger others, they are simply dealt with.

reply to post by SevenBeans

Yes but your questions were straw men. As in this was nothing he or she said and simply things rolling around in your mind apparently without much thought. There are already laws covering most of what you are positing.

And so you would be for legislating all Americans to the genetic level? Perhaps you wouldn't really be opposed to that breeding farm after all?

And I will gladly discuss this further via U2U or maybe I should start a thread. I don't want to drift this thread further away from the original topic.

Originally posted by rogerstigers

And yet, you jumped to the most heinous thing you could think of in an attempt to paint me as a monster. Fine. Get out your brushes.

Umm, I jumped to nothing, someone asked you specifically about parents who kill their kids and you said no exceptions...

Originally posted by rogerstigers
No Exceptions. I do not think that our actions should be relegated to the musings of a few wealthy and powerful people of questionable ethics who deem to consider their morals better than everyone elses.

If that means there wil be communities where people rape and murder, then that's the way it is. I tend to have more faith in the families and friends who would take steps to stop such actions. If a friend of mine raped or murdered their child, I would consider it my duty to hold that person accountable.

If we lived in smaller communities where people were more involved then we would not need laws to regulate every aspect of our lives. Troublemakers would be dealt with. The problem with the "what about this" approach is that everytime you claim moral authority over an entire group of people, you open that community up to yet another seizure of rights.

I think communities are more than capable of taking care of themselves. Native tribes all over the world are doing just fine without "Fearless Leader" watching over them. When a person becomes a troublemaker and starts doing things to endanger others, they are simply dealt with.

Ok, what you're talking about than is not "leave them be" you just want yourself/the immediate community to be the one's to "hold that person accountable."

Thank you for clarifying...

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Yes but your questions were straw men. As in this was nothing he or she said and simply things rolling around in your mind apparently without much thought.

Read the last page...

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
There are already laws covering most of what you are positing.

Obviously... I asked him if he thinks there should be or not...

reply to post by rogerstigers

I'm not sure how far off topic this really is, though, because it goes to exactly to illustrate the kind of thinking that could well take us down some slipperier slopes someday. This issue has been percolating forever now, and it never dies. The Uterus Police is a very logical next step should heaven forbid Roe v Wade ever be overturned, and people need to be aware that there are people out there thinking this way.

Think of the effort that's been put into fighting and repealing it and fighting each other and allowing this to become such a divisive issue rather than banding together to have open dialog without all the shunning and accusations and finger pointing and ugliness and have some real communication and education to rid our society and our country of the root causes of the issue, you know?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
And so you would be for legislating all Americans to the genetic level? Perhaps you wouldn't really be opposed to that breeding farm after all?

Can you explain what you mean by legislating americans to the genetic level? What would an example of that be?

Breeding farm? No.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Hey, if these guys are so pro-life, why don't they block funeral parlors?

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Ok, what you're talking about than is not "leave them be" you just want yourself/the immediate community to be the one's to "hold that person accountable."

Thank you for clarifying...

Apologies for the confusion. I was not advocating leaving harmful people to the fates and karma, although, yeah, I can see how that might have come across that way. No, I merely live by the principles that accountability and responsibility lies at and around the local community (myself and the ones under my care, specifically).

reply to post by SevenBeans

That goes to my question to you that you answered. Chromosomal damage = genetic level.

Breeding farm or license to breed...you pick. That's where I see this leading if we follow the path you seem to believe needs to be followed.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
And so you would be for legislating all Americans to the genetic level? Perhaps you wouldn't really be opposed to that breeding farm after all?

Can you explain what you mean by legislating americans to the genetic level? What would an example of that be?

Breeding farm? No.

edit on 22-2-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)

Not to step on Luc, but a few folks have pointed out that part of the issue is the level of policing these ideas
attempt to impart on Americans.

Where does it stop???

reply to post by Janky Red

Step away...no problem at all, I mean. That's exactly right. And is exactly why so this issue is so very important to most women.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
That goes to my question to you that you answered. Chromosomal damage = genetic level.

Breeding farm or license to breed...you pick. That's where I see this leading if we follow the path you seem to believe needs to be followed.

Really or are you just being dramatic?

Law is just very inconsistent. It doesn't make sense that someone can be arrested for slapping a child and causing a superficial redmark that's gone in ten minutes etc. etc. but there is no consequence for a woman who causes irreversible brain-damage, drug addiction, deformations etc. etc. etc. to their children through willfull negligence while pregnant.

reply to post by rogerstigers


it ahs nothing to do with christianity, hes just using religion to further is cause, oh and by the way, religion is a business, it aint real if ya didint know ehehe

My first thought was

"Whats he hiding?"

He would be ripe for "Well the bible doesn't say cross-dressing was wrong so I wear stellettos around the house."

My gosh how do these people get into office.

/baffle

reply to post by SevenBeans


Maybe I'm misinterpreting your tone, and if so my apologies, but you seem unwilling to consider that harmful neglect to a fetus (and on that level a future fetus as well) could be perpetrated by both men and women. If you had reviewed my link, you would have seen that there is evidence that:

www.fasalaska.com...

"Alcohol consumed by the male can lead to a variety of problems in the reproductive system. Unlike females, whose eggs are all made during pre-birth development, males continuously make sperm throughout their lives. Some studies have shown that alcohol consumed by the male can enter the testicles through the bloodstream. The drug then seems to mutate some characteristics of the sperm. After exposure, they can end up with deformed heads or tails, hindering their mobility. Alcohol could also be transported to the ova via the semen and expose the embryo to levels of this toxicant. In addition, alcohol-affected semen could alter embryo maturation."

"Dr. Cicero sums it all up when he suggests the possibility of three factors which could be affected by male alcohol consumption. First, alcohol could affect characteristics of the sperm - perhaps mutating genetic material. Second, sperm may be "chosen" in such a way that only a few are intact following exposure to alcohol. Third, alcohol could alter the chemical composition of the semen, which may influence the activity of ejaculated sperm. In any of these ways, the sperm is harmed by alcohol, which in turn, causes a negative impact to the development of the fetus."

"Like alcohol and other drugs, cigarettes harm the human body. In males, smoking has been shown to affect the sperm. The deformed sperm are more likely to cause miscarriage and problems for the fetus. Studies in the 1960's showed that fetuses with fathers who smoked were more likely to struggle for their lives than the offspring of non-smokers. The studies also showed that the death rate was forty percent higher among a group of subjects with smoking fathers."

"Smoking can cause even more problems, both for Dad and the baby. The bodies of males who light up can produce free radicals, or molecules which damage cell parts and the chromosomes in sperm. Lower birth weight and increased risk of disease in babies has been connected with a father's smoking. Cigarettes that are smoked by a male can contribute to infertility by causing varicocele, a swelling in the veins of the scrotum, which can cause a miscarriage. Smoking half a pack or more a day has been shown to reduce sperm count by as much as twenty percent."

"A male's exposure to lead has been associated with his partner's miscarriage. This substance and others, such as Ethylene oxide, the pesticide DBCP, and ionizing radiation can negatively affect human reproduction. They may adversely affect the male reproductive system, and sperm count, which can lead to infertility, miscarriage, or still birth"

"In addition to problems from chemical exposure at work, when a male ingests coc aine before conception, the coc aine has been found to bind the sperm cells and thus expose the baby at fertilization and cause numerous problems."

So say I get pregnant, and I am the pinnacle of healthy and responsible behavior. My pregnancy partner is a) my long time bf, who has been drinking heavily on the sly, smoking even though he told me he quit, worked in pest control but said he works in an office, and doing coc aine without letting me know, or b) a one night stand who lied to me about his usual behavior to get me into bed.

Now situation A. I miscarry, a) might feel sad about it, but say better luck next time, and b) is relieved. No harm, no foul on the man's end?
Situation B. I give birth to a child who suffers from malformations, behavioral and cognitive disorders, and ends up getting childhood cancer. Can I charge the man for his inferior sperm because he was the cause of it, or is the fact that he treated his body like a trash receptacle my problem because I didn't get enough background info on the person, and trusted them to tell me the truth about their behaviors?


P.S. Sorry for the lengthy post, I just wanted to make sure the information leading up to my questions were available here, and I'm having trouble with external quotes on the iPad. I'm not sure if those quotes violated any rules, if so I'm sorry again.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


i dont know why these bastards dont stay the # out of our lives!!!!!!!!!