Secret film shows Iraq prisoners sodomised

I THINK NATIVEOKIE'S AVATAR NEEDS TO BE SENT TO DEAL WITH THE GUILTY BY BLOWING OFF THE PARTS OF THEIR BODIES THAT MADE THIS "COMPASSION" POSSIBLE

Originally posted by jsobecky
You're asking him to prove a negative. The correct question would be:

What do you have to back up the < allegation that > the bush administration ordered these crimes?
Info in added for clarity.

You know, that pesky little concept of being innocent until proven guilty?
Supposedly there is a "secret tape". Let's see it, please.

[edit on 16-7-2004 by jsobecky]

No it is not, I posted the proof that the whitehouse did in fact order them. It is widely known and undisputed proof. Yet there are still people who claim the Bush administration knew nothing about it. If you read the classified memo it says specifically as long as they claim no knowledge they can't be held accountable. Do a little research and see for yourself.

Funny, jsobecky and that fox-dude claim many of you are so quick to jump on the "Bash Bush" bandwagon.

Guess what? jsobecky and the other guy are so quick to jump on the "Support Bush" bandwagon!

Profound, isn't it?

This goes WAY beyond party lines. Isn't the President also known as "the Commander In Chief", some thing like that, he's the man at the top. If you're going to take credit for what you did for the country, you've also got to take the blame when things go awry. If it was Gore in that seat right now, I'd be saying the same thing. IF these allegations turn into fact, Bush, whether he had knowledge or not, this is his puppy to take care of.

But what if proof of these alligation DO come out? Will anybody on this board be willing to actually watch a tape of gay rape?? And then give a play by play ala Nick Berg? I don't think so. The only way we're gonna know if these allegations are true is if the US does the right thing and prosecutes these sick soldiers(that is if it isn't a rumor but I highly doubt that it is).

We're Americans...we can do whatever/whoever the hell we want!!

Iraqi or Secretary. It doesn't matter.


[edit on 7-18-04 by Echo]

Ah yes, Abu Ghraib prison.

You could get a photo from 1980 and a photo from 2004 and play spot the difference.

The 'free people of the democratic world' and their finest moment.

Originally posted by Variable
lol, just because some reporter says it happened, does not make it true.
Thank God the left is so kooky.

Alleged? It was caught on tape. It's been addressed by Congress. How is this a "leftist" issue? If I mentioned how UN troops raped refugees in the Balkans, that would be OK to mention , correct? WAKE UP!

[edit on 18-7-2004 by roxdog]

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Funny, jsobecky and that fox-dude claim many of you are so quick to jump on the "Bash Bush" bandwagon.

Guess what? jsobecky and the other guy are so quick to jump on the "Support Bush" bandwagon!

Profound, isn't it?

So you're saying that it's OK to bash Bush, but not to ask for proof (or as you put it "support Bush") when allegations are made? If you go through my posts, you'll see that I don't ask for proof along party lines; I'm an equal opportunity seeker of truth.

Just the other day, I pointed out a quote that was attributed to GWB, when the actual post was made by GHWB in 1987. I knew what the response was going to be before I pointd out the lie: people would say "Well, it doesn't matter because it's Like Father Like Son".

It was easy to predict the reaction from the left because of how quickly they salivate at any chance to bash the president.

Now that's pretty profound, isn't it?

If you have the nerve jsobecky you might be willing to watch this.
It supports documents and witnesses that Bush was AWOL in Alabama, while other soldiers were fighting and dying in Vietnam. How he got bumped over several thousand other applicants to the National Guard, this with a score that was one point above failing. A witness confirms that his daddy Senator George H.W. Bush made a phone call for him. How the last presidential election was stolen by Jeb Bush his brother in Florida. The election official ends the interview when he see's the proof the reporter is holding.
caution: it is a large download.
www.activeopposition.com...

I fail to see how those last 2 posts in any way have anything to do with the topic at hand. That's Mudpit material guys.

Justmytype, you disgust me totally. What youre basiclly saying, is that if these things happened, it was justified, and that those retarded stupid @ss american rapists are innocent. PLUS you want video footage of this?

And even if whatever happened in vietnam,
in my opinion, america never had any good reason to go there.

I dont think prisoners deserve "tea and crumpets", but it seems that your also saying, is


"go ahead, rape at will. It wont matter, cuz their are others worse than us."



Worry about yourself, not what other people do. Thats americas' problem. your military goes everywhere,doing whatever they want, pointing fingers at "The bad guys" while trying to hide your own dispicable acts.


I have spoken.

Edited Bigquote and stuff

[edit on 19-7-2004 by Kano]

Isnt it funny how none of this was found necessary back in wwII. I seem to recall hearing that nazis would go out of their way to surrender to Americans because we actually treated them fairly and werent sadists like the soviets. Doesn't anyone else miss the days when Americans actually acted like Americans....

Originally posted by boogyman
Isnt it funny how none of this was found necessary back in wwII. I seem to recall hearing that nazis would go out of their way to surrender to Americans because we actually treated them fairly and werent sadists like the soviets. Doesn't anyone else miss the days when Americans actually acted like Americans....

Well, todays world is different. The concept of having the troops torture prisoners appears to have come from the top. We only get crumbs of the truth but a good indicator here is that Donald Rumdfield had the laws researched to find a way to bypass the Geneva Convention in order to torture prisoners and make sure the White House had no accountability. (read the classified memo here ) To see our children doing things like that, and to see the possibility that the president ordered them to is not the price of freedom. The rules work when everyone follows them, Al Qada does not follow them and the president is to weak minded to find a better way to deal with that than what he has already done. America will always be America, even if it is only by name. Yet it is a sad day when we elect a intellectual twit to office who can't find a better way than dropping bombs and torturing people, a sad day indeed.

Can you not get it through your heads? Our approved interrogation techniques do not violate the Geneva conventions. Secondly, very few of these detainees qualify for Geneva protections, as they do not live up to their end of the deal. (Sorry, a mask and an AK does not constitute a uniform!) This has been discussed in many other threads, and no amount of whining will change these facts.

These alleged acts have not been proven to be true to any extent whatsoever. It is possible that such a thing occurred, and if so the perpetrators deserve all scorn and punishment possible. However, this type of behavior, if indeed existant at all, is not encouraged in any manner, but an abomination perpetrated by screwed-up individuals. Jesus, people! Our boys are not running roughshod all over Iraq raping and pillaging! It saddens me greatly that everyone is so eager to villify our sons and daughters who are fighting for the freedom of another country, and indeed the whole of civilization, with no proof of the assertions.

All of this on the word of one obviously anti-American journalist giving a speech to the ACLU in San Francisco, of all places? That's right, the same city where the local government won't adequately arm their police to deal with criminals who are packing serious firepower because it might offend someone to see a policeman with an assault rifle? Gee, and some people think there may be a liberal agenda here? I wonder why?

Does anyone here really think that sodomizing someone is going to make them tell you what you want to know? I may be misjudging the rest of humanity on this one, but I know I sure as hell wouldn't! This makes no sense. There are much more effective ways of obtaining information. This would be the logical equivalent of poking a bee's nest with a stick in hopes of getting honey.

Originally posted by Q
Can you not get it through your heads? Our approved interrogation techniques do not violate the Geneva conventions. Secondly, very few of these detainees qualify for Geneva protections, as they do not live up to their end of the deal. (Sorry, a mask and an AK does not constitute a uniform!) This has been discussed in many other threads, and no amount of whining will change these facts.

These alleged acts have not been proven to be true to any extent whatsoever. It is possible that such a thing occurred, and if so the perpetrators deserve all scorn and punishment possible.

Maybe you should read the Geneva convention before you go tell people who is and is not covered.

"The rights and protections granted to POWs are enumerated in detail in the Third Geneva Convention. "Nonprivileged" or "unlawful" combatants are protected under the Fourth Geneva Convention, customary international law and, where applicable, Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions. Although the United States is not a party to Protocol I, the U.S. government accepts many of its provisions as part of customary international law; especially relevant is article 75 on "fundamental guarantees," which sets out basic standards of humane treatment and due process that is required for all persons affected by the conflict, regardless of their status"

"Humane Treatment: POWs must be humanely treated at all times. They must be protected against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults or public curiosity. POWs must be kept in facilities "under conditions as favorable as those for the forces of the Detaining Power in the same area." In particular, "the premises provided for the use of prisoners of war...shall be entirely protected from dampness and adequately heated and lighted." (Third Geneva, Arts. 13, 25, 34)."

read it all here


"2002 order signed by Bush says the president reserves the right to suspend the Geneva Conventions on treatment of prisoners of war at any time."

Why the hell would we need such an order if we weren't out to torture people? link

This one about sums it up. For the people who still support Bush and his administration who continually refuse to do simple google searches before making statements and forming opinions about the truth of the matter, please don't bother to reply until you have all the facts.

"Pentagon concedes interrogation techniques illegal
Top Pentagon officials have conceded some of the interrogation methods approved for use by the US military on Iraqi prisoners may violate the Geneva Convention governing treatment of war prisoners.

The admission came as senators investigated disclosures of sexual and psychological abuse of detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad that prompted outrage around the world and undermined US efforts to stabilise the occupied country. "

" Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who paid a surprise visit to Iraq and Abu Ghraib on Thursday, told a different Senate committee on Wednesday that Pentagon lawyers endorsed the interrogation methods used by the US military. "

read it all here


external image

Illegal Illegal Illegal Illegal

Read the laws, know the facts and you will find that the government has done these nasty things and they have no conscious about it except to cover their own butts. you take a good look at these photos and tell me if you don't think anyone was raped. In for a penny in for a pound.

[edit on 19-7-2004 by J0HNSmith]

Originally posted by Q
Does anyone here really think that sodomizing someone is going to make them tell you what you want to know? I may be misjudging the rest of humanity on this one, but I know I sure as hell wouldn't! This makes no sense. There are much more effective ways of obtaining information. This would be the logical equivalent of poking a bee's nest with a stick in hopes of getting honey.

This torture is not being used to gain info, you are right, there are better techniques to achieve that goal. This would be done to abase the prisoners. Again you are right, it makes no sense. Lowering these people in this manner will just inflame the hatred for the West.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Read the laws, know the facts and you will find that the government has done these nasty things and they have no conscious about it except to cover their own butts. you take a good look at these photos and tell me if you don't think anyone was raped. In for a penny in for a pound.

Another source is the Taguba report. It expressly confirms the fact that men were sodomized and women prisoners raped by american soldiers in abu ghraib. It astounds me that people still deny this. remember, the bulk of the photos were not released. what we have seen were the tamest of the lot.

www.agonist.org... - the taguba report. this isn't just one aclu journalist making a claim (incidentally, that journalist, Seymour Hersh, is one of the worlds most respected war correspondents- he broke the story on My Lai, so he knows the business of war atrocities and coverups). this is the summation of the findings of an investigation into the abuses at abu ghraib by a US Major General and Senior Staff Officer. where have you bush lovers been? turn of the fox network for two minutes and maybe you'll learn something!

on a seperate issue, i came across this quote:

On the Senate side, Armed Services Chairman Sen. John Warner (R-Va.) told colleagues that he feels �very strongly� that the new photos of prisoner abuse should not be made public. Defense Department officials provided members who viewed the materials with a �white paper� stating that it would be a violation of the Privacy Act to reveal the identities of any U.S. national in the photographs and that it could violate the Geneva Conventions.

www.hillnews.com...

unbelievable. invoking the geneva conventions to protect the torturers! i have no words.

-koji K.

[edit on 19-7-2004 by koji_K]

[edit on 19-7-2004 by koji_K]

To everyone who thinks that just because we are fighting "fanatics" who "don't follow the rules" we are justified in abusing them remember this. Both the nazis and the soviets believed in this philosophy and applied it in their respective wars. I'm sure we can all look at history to judge whether or not they were right in their beliefs.

I REALLY CALL THIS THE WAR ON TERROR DONT YOU???

seems seems to me that Bushl just went in,trashed the place, destroyed the lives of prisoners, raped them, and left.

Looks more to me like "Bush's reign of terror".