Secret film shows Iraq prisoners sodomised

Young male prisoners were filmed being sodomised by American soldiers at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to the journalist who first revealed the abuses there.

Seymour Hersh, who reported on the torture of the prisoners in New Yorker magazine in May, told an audience in San Francisco that "it's worse". But he added that he would reveal the extent of the abuses: "I'm not done reporting on all this," he told a meeting of the American Civil Liberties Union.

He said: "The boys were sodomised with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war."

He accused the US administration, and all but accused President George Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney of complicity in covering up what he called "war crimes".

news.independent.co.uk...

If this is true then I just don't know what to say. This has just gotten beyond ridiculous.

[edit on 16-7-2004 by Jonna]

Raping boys. Absolutely amazing. There are still people who think all that happened was some underwear on the head, and that Bush administration never authorized torture. How much more disgusting things will come out among the thousands of pictures and video tapes? A few bad apples? This abuse was systemic, and indicitive of how this administration lacks any kind of moral compass .

So this is what hey meant by our armies of compassion and the coalition of the willing? (1)Make no mistake about it the orders for torture came from the top. I think Bush's concept of being gods annotated not only falls short but it makes you wonder if ordering homosexual rapes is really saving the Iraqi people from the evil Sadam regime. In the face of the facts it is no great wonder why George W. Bush is the but of nasty jokes here and abroad and why billions of people hate him. I think a good metafore for the Bush administration in part comes from the apple computer logo.

oppress different

(1) www.dailytimes.com.pk...
www.washingtonpost.com...
www.able2know.com...
story.news.yahoo.com.../usatoday/20040623/ts_usatoday/rumsfeldokdharshtreatment&e=4

After you read all of those, if this was a joke here is the punch line:

www.cnn.com...



[edit on 16-7-2004 by J0HNSmith]

Not to be flippant about this but, are we really surprised?
Have you not ever met anyone who has served time in an American Prison?

I have worked with men who have been raped in the US prison system. it is a very common practice, happens far more often than is reported and many time we have seen evidence that the guards either participated or were in fact allowing it to happen.

I am not saying this is not a very bad thing, I am maybe just less surprised than others.

they said during one of the hearings that there were 1000's of photos and dozens of videos yet to be released (if they ever will be). wait till the pics with female iraqis in them start coming out.

i am not saying this because i think all troops are rapists or something as stupid as that. the vast majority of our troops are good people trying to do good in a hard place. i am not trying to slander our troops in iraq, i have great respect for them as a whole.

but i just think it's logical, given the sheer amount of material they claim to have. if they are sodomizing men, they can just as easily be raping or humiliating women. when these come out, if they do, rightly or wrongly it will make the torture pics seem like a coloring book in the public eye.

-koji K.

Abuse of prisoners is vile, and sodomising of boys is abhorrent. The filming of such activities [if this is indeed true] is a terrible indictment of brutality.

But I wonder why this abuse, the worst of all, was not mentioned earlier? And is it the more shocking to us because it involved the rape of males? Rape of females was long regarded, until comparatively recent times, as one of the "spoils of war".

Sorry, I just had to say that. But I do agree with you whole-heartedly, Jonna.

mmmm If I saw one of my boys killed in Iraq maybe I would turn in the same direcion...those people have lost there minds...

Seymour Hersh spoke about this at the ACLU 2004 America At A Crossroads conference.

The video of Hersh's speech can be found here:


stream.realimpact.net.../aclu/conf2004/20040707_aclu_AmericaAtACrossroads_300.rm

It's long - Hersh begins speaking at the 1 hout 7 minute mark.

Originally posted by nativeokie
Not to be flippant about this but, are we really surprised?

Now as many here know, I do not have the most positive outlook on the human world, but I am still surprised, confused and disqusted every time I hear of things like this and probably will be in the future as well. To me rape is a more hidious crime then murder. At least when you're dead, the emotional pain ceases.

Huuummm... Rumsfeld's last idea of "torture method"? No, I have never heard of anything similar during other "war" or occupation by the USA. I am totally disgusted but somehow, not that surprised. I thought we would probably hear that along along the news sometime, since they've found all thoses awfulls videos.

Go USA

Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by nativeokie
Not to be flippant about this but, are we really surprised?

To me rape is a more hidious crime then murder. At least when you're dead, the emotional pain ceases.

I agree with you 100 percent on this one. And the punishment for these crimes are just ridiculous - at least in Sweden. Castration anyone?

Children! That's the part that boggles the mind! Raping children. Were they trying to get information from the parents? Or was it just a power thing?

You people don't realize that pedantry is quite normal in that region.

Our Western point of view says it to be horrible but they don't. Afghanis put make up on the boys first!!

Yes it is bad but they see it as normal

By the way... George Bush did not order this crime. He did not participate. Cheney was not there filming. They are not evil.

The local translators were doing these crimes NOT THE TROOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by crmanager
You people don't realize that pedantry is quite normal in that region.

Our Western point of view says it to be horrible but they don't. Afghanis put make up on the boys first!!

And what does being pedantic have to do with this? Did you perhaps mean pederasty?

Regardless, did you imagine this BS would go unchallenged?

This is unacceptable behavior all the way around!! This is an abomination, it makes us no better than anyone else, which I guess we know anyway "but" U.S. proclaims to be "the good guys". As a survivor of severe childhood sexual abuse, I can tell you will never get completely over it...NEVER, it haunts you in your dreams, follows you everywhere you go. These men, and those filming it are sub human....This is my not so humble opinion here, and yes, I guess some of it is coming from emotional response....but even if you take my past out of it, it is unacceptable! I would be ashamed to know these men/woman, much less have one of them be my child, brother, husband.....

Let's note that they are refered to as boys not children in the article. Some might still call young adults boys.


I say this because I believe there should be different punishments for crimes against children. If these are 10 year olds vs 19 year olds it is different and the punishment these sick individuals deserve should be adjusted accordingly.

Also I am interested in the fact we only have this one accounting of it and there is very little detail offered such as when it occured, how many people were involved, were they US soldiers or Iraqi translators, who the victims are, why they were detained, etc. Yes I know someone from the ACLU mentioned it but they have lost a lot of crediblity with me and probably many other Americans.

These are very very serious allegations and before a mob mentality occurs we just need some facts.

Oh and on my previous post I was not trying to make it seem like a non issue when I asked if anyone was really surprised. I was mostly commenting on the use of rape in prisons as a form of control. It happens here in the US and I was not surprised it might happen in another country.

lol, just because some reporter says it happened, does not make it true. Until we have credible evidence it sounds like election year bs. Anything to pile on is fair game right? Just read the posts on how terrible the Administration is because of an alleged incident, lol, one towering bastion of intellect has now claimed the raping of children! The Americans are raping children right now, Damn them, Damn them to Hell! We need more suicide bombers to defend the children of Iraq!! Wake up America!



Thank God the left is so kooky.

Originally posted by x_y_no
Seymour Hersh spoke about this at the ACLU 2004 America At A Crossroads conference.

The video of Hersh's speech can be found here:


stream.realimpact.net.../aclu/conf2004/20040707_aclu_AmericaAtACrossroads_300.rm

It's long - Hersh begins speaking at the 1 hout 7 minute mark.

A transcipt is HERE if you want to read it.

Since those victims were prisoners and will no doubt be released at some point, I'm surprised those horrible soldiers didn't consider the fact that they've just put another nail in the coffin of Americans in general.

If I'd been treated like that in prison during a war, and I got out.... I'd make *#@$*! sure I'd punish the abusers and anyone associated with them (like all of America!) one way or another!

They either just created a new breed of terrorist or cemented the determination of existing ones.

What I don't understand is the mind of the actual soldier(s) commiting these heinous acts. How can they lose their connection to their own soul? It's hard enough having to go to war and shoot and bomb and kill and maime.... but to attack a defenseless person in captivity is just cowardice!




[edit on 16-7-2004 by Cattlespy]

Originally posted by crmanager
You people don't realize that pedantry is quite normal in that region.

Our Western point of view says it to be horrible but they don't. Afghanis put make up on the boys first!!

Yes it is bad but they see it as normal

By the way... George Bush did not order this crime. He did not participate. Cheney was not there filming. They are not evil.

The local translators were doing these crimes NOT THE TROOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do you have to back up the the bush administration didn't order these crimes? I have a 50 page classified memo directly from Rumsfield himself stating that they can torture prisoners, the memo was leaked to the washington post and put on-line. Back in the day when the administration publicly was saying they had no desire to torture people they were writing this up. Ask them about torture today and everyone including bush will have no comment. The proof speaks for its self, the types of torture they try to find a legal means to do the memo are the same EXACT things they have pictures of. Sounds evil to me, Cheney may as well been holding the camera and Bush may as well have been torturing these people.