The "War On Drugs" is 40 years old and an abject failure.

Originally posted by SamTGonzalez
For every rule someone makes, there is always a group of people that want to break it. That's just the way the world works.

For every IMMORAL rule that someone makes, there HAS to be people that are WILLING to break it.

That is how the world SHOULD work.

Or we'd still have slavery.

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
This topic always reminds me of a vid regarding the absurdity of it all, especially when one considers the "legal" drug industry with all of their wonderful side effects and lack of effectiveness. We all know the real reason behind this is money for the agencies and prisons.
I just love this vid, it really calls it like it is.

peace,
spec

I usually edit out vid links, but I'm leaving this here. Everybody should watch it. The problem, clearly - like virtually all problems in this world - is money. Thread after thread, topic after topic, we see the same thread. Money.

And yes, here I am bringing up a new paradigm - again. Would we be horrified about cannabis if there were no money interests?

Objectively, the users range from the stereotypical goofy dude to intellectuals in discourse. They tend to be easier to get along with than the average "sober" person, a tad more thoughtful, and really, with an estimated ten million people daily in this country really, really well medicated, and a large number of them on the roads, we aren't seeing even hundreds of thousands of issues daily. In fact, cannabis alone is rarely brought up in accidents caused by medicated drivers. The drunk who hit them, medicated with cannabis or not, happens a lot.

It hasn't killed anyone, ever... So, we can't object to it on those grounds.

So the issues of having users around us lacks substance. No real problem. And then...

There are the phenomenal list of things it can do. The treating of glaucoma is VERY well established. And the biggest one, bigger than cancer (which it treats), is stress.

You know that snide comment, "You just want to get high!" Well, no. Try this phrase on for size: "You just want to relieve stress!" That's more accurate.

Looking at all this, I'm thinking society without money would just leave each to His/Her own, much like coffee. Want some? Here. Don't drink it? Cool.

reply to post by Amaterasu

No it would not clamp down on our ability or freedom to move around or travel. By actually starting to secure the border and preventing the flow of illegal drugs into the United States, then it would force those importing such into the country to look else where to sell their illegal drugs. This was has always had solutions within the grasp of the federal government, and the federal government has chosen to let it escalate out of control for the longest time. It is not the medical use that is looked at, rather it is the recreational use. The actual effects on the body needs to be studied, by an independent lab, rather than one controlled by the government, as to determine what it does to the human body and the long term effects of such. Though some studies shows that while it may have beneficial effects, there is also reported some negative effect on the human body.
There is a concern that people who have tried and used cannabis would be tempted to lead to trying the harder more dangerous drugs. Many of those who ended up addicted to other drugs such as meth, crack, coc aine, and heroin, have stated that they at one time tried and used cannabis.
The constitution is mentioned, however it does state in the Constitution that congress does have the power to regulate and raise taxes on items, control commerce and to promote the general welfare of the citizens. As what is being proposed, by the sale of cannabis, would fall under those categories, and thus under the jurisdiction of the federal government. And what of the people who do not want to smell or be around such, where is their right not to have to deal with such? Like tobacco smoke, that is considered the evil of the day, cannabis would produce a visible residue and thus have to be restricted where it can and can not be used.
Though there are some medicinal uses for such, it should not be used as a recreational purposes.
It was mentioned about the drug war, well part of that has to be put into the treatment and rehabilitation of those who are using drugs, to help them not do such, rather than imprisonment. This would serve to help all, rather than the few.

\There is no failure of the ''war on drugs''. How can there be a failure if there was never any war.

You have the pitch someone is trying to tell u about a apparent war on drugs but is this real world.

Why would someone create a war on drugs if they sold the drugs....lol

BRAVO!!

At last someone is telling things by their name. The war on drugs is an ABJECT FAILURE!!

The only thing drug gangs fear is LEGALIZATION!!

reply to post by alaskan


It's like the war on terrorism will be after 50 freakin years of "hunting nothing"...
The war on terror is a war on peace...
But this war on drugs I "THINK" IT WILL LEAVE HUMANS REALLY CRIPELD...

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

No it would not clamp down on our ability or freedom to move around or travel. By actually starting to secure the border and preventing the flow of illegal drugs into the United States, then it would force those importing such into the country to look else where to sell their illegal drugs.

It's NOT a solution. It would cost billions to maintain. It would not work - the sellers and users would find solutions. And PROHIBITION does not work. It woud force those importing to become more clever.

This was has always had solutions within the grasp of the federal government, and the federal government has chosen to let it escalate out of control for the longest time.

It has escalated because PROHIBITION does not work and only exacerbates problems. It is NOT a solution.

It is not the medical use that is looked at, rather it is the recreational use. The actual effects on the body needs to be studied, by an independent lab, rather than one controlled by the government, as to determine what it does to the human body and the long term effects of such. Though some studies shows that while it may have beneficial effects, there is also reported some negative effect on the human body.

What are we talking about? Cannabis? If so, you must be unaware of all the studies. The fact that it has been used for 5000 years without causing death - or even health issues - should clue us in. And study after study shows positive effects. Cannabis even promotes neurogenesis - more brain cells.

FYI, the "recreational" use of cannabis is people using it to relieve stress. And it is irrelevant that, after benefit after benefit was being found, that some poorly constructed (and with dubious source of funding) show some minor issues. Given the enormous benefit, locking up a million people for its use over THEM is, fully and literally, absurd. And unEthical. Sick, in fact.

There is a concern that people who have tried and used cannabis would be tempted to lead to trying the harder more dangerous drugs. Many of those who ended up addicted to other drugs such as meth, crack, coc aine, and heroin, have stated that they at one time tried and used cannabis.

This is an old argument that has been proven to be false. The only reason there is any relationship at all is that the people who sell cannabis illegally, also have other stuff available - and they push it. But in fact, out of the tens of millions who use cannabis, only a small number (like less than 1%) become users of harder drugs. Just because someone who uses harder drugs has tried cannabis does NOT follow that using cannabis leads one into harder drugs.

The constitution is mentioned, however it does state in the Constitution that congress does have the power to regulate and raise taxes on items, control commerce and to promote the general welfare of the citizens. As what is being proposed, by the sale of cannabis, would fall under those categories, and thus under the jurisdiction of the federal government.

Oh, I am fully aware of the taxation thing. They used it to control cannabis initially, because they had no jurisdiction over its legality. It has morphed beyond the realm of the Constitution. As to promoting the general welfare - heh. PROHIBITING ANYTHING causes crime, turf wars, police corruption, as demonstrated with alcohol and our present prohibition. So for the general welfare...they're failing miserably by promoting and keeping prohibition in place. And sure. Tax sales. But don't arrest a peaceful user growing a plant in his back yard. NO jurisdiction to do so.

So, no. The Constitution does NOT allow them to make cannabis - or any other substance illegal. That is for the States to decide. (Why do you think we had to AMEND our Constitution to outlaw alcohol? Because it was seen that, without an amendment, the Constitution gave no power to make it illegal, tax or no tax.

And what of the people who do not want to smell or be around such, where is their right not to have to deal with such? Like tobacco smoke, that is considered the evil of the day, cannabis would produce a visible residue and thus have to be restricted where it can and can not be used.

In public those people are free to move away. In private, they can ask the user to move away. Or we can just use the truth (no health risks) to allay fears. (FYI, in 50 years of testing organic, pure tobacco on cancer-prone rodents, NONE have shown a link to cancer - that was a lie used to cover the real reason people were suddenly getting skin and lung cancers: the Trinity nuclear device that was exploded in the upper atmosphere in the 1940's. Not wanting outrage at the testing of their weapons, they blamed it on the sun (skin cancer) and tobacco (lung cancer). To encourage cancer in tobacco users, they added chemicals, passed laws that said tobacco had to be grown in radioactive fertilizer, fiberglass (known carcinogen) filters, and saturation of the tobacco itself with carcinogenic chemicals.)

Though there are some medicinal uses for such, it should not be used as a recreational purposes.
It was mentioned about the drug war, well part of that has to be put into the treatment and rehabilitation of those who are using drugs, to help them not do such, rather than imprisonment. This would serve to help all, rather than the few.

You say, "Though there are some medicinal uses for such, it should not be used as a recreational purposes." As I pointed out, "recreational use" is relieving stress. Are you saying stress is not something we should be treating? In fact, please give me your reasoning.

I agree that treatment for those who want it should be available. By far the best solution (as illustrated in Portugal and the Netherlands) is to remove prohibition on ALL substances, promote honest information about the drugs, and help people who ask for help.

Originally posted by thirty3
\There is no failure of the ''war on drugs''. How can there be a failure if there was never any war.

You have the pitch someone is trying to tell u about a apparent war on drugs but is this real world.

Why would someone create a war on drugs if they sold the drugs....lol

Yes, there IS a war. It not on drugs, however. One cannot war against inanimate objects. Only against people. So this war is a War on (some people who use some) Drugs.

reply to post by Amaterasu

Yes it is a solution. It costs billions right now to incarcerate the people in jail on drug charges, this way it eliminates that aspect and reduces the population to keep people in jail, and assists them in such.
You are correct that prohibition does not work.
If it a person has to turn to a substance to get relief from stress, there is a deeper issue there, and the person is more likely to try harder drugs, when the first one fails to do what all it is suppose to do. So the stress relief issue, is more of an addiction than anything else, as it would be used as an excuse to do such, rather than prevent or reduce such.
The argument about cannabis leading onto other drugs is not a false one, as many who were convicted of the harder drugs, such as coc aine and heroine, all stated that they started out with cannabis, so the argument stands.

The war on drugs is not a failure. It generates huge revenue for American companies. Every time they put an American in prison for a drug related offense the government pays the company that is contracted to run the prison a fee. This is a great revenue generator and the people that came up with this great system should be given a medal. Now if we would simply legalize torturing terror suspects on American soil we can then start to reap the financial benefits of terrorism as well! :>D

God Bless America, land of the free home f the brave

do the Johnny Appleseed thing and plant small quantity in the wild. it's a weed. let it grow wild. spread the seeds, spread the word. i wonder what would be the effect five years from now.

If your government won't change, change your government.

Why does no one target their anger at the people that are pulling the strings behind the government that makes this illegal? I mean we could replace the entire staff of the government and it could still be corrupt if we have the same banksters influencing them.

Money= power
power=corruption
corruption=tyrannical laws
Prohibition of clearly positive substances=tyranny

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Yes it is a solution. It costs billions right now to incarcerate the people in jail on drug charges, this way it eliminates that aspect and reduces the population to keep people in jail, and assists them in such.
You are correct that prohibition does not work.

What I was saying is that "tightening our borders" is not a solution... It would cost billions and would be circumvented. Not a solution at all. The solution is to remove prohibition.

If it a person has to turn to a substance to get relief from stress, there is a deeper issue there, and the person is more likely to try harder drugs, when the first one fails to do what all it is suppose to do.

I disagree. Humans have been using plants and derivatives to treat stress throughout history. (What do you think the recreational use of alcohol is???) The "harder drugs" thing is and has been proven to be BS. (If there was an issue, we would see tens of millions of us on harder drugs. We don't.)

So the stress relief issue, is more of an addiction than anything else, as it would be used as an excuse to do such, rather than prevent or reduce such.

Ah. The guy who has a martini when he comes home from work is an addict. Got it. "Excuse???" Try "reason."

The argument about cannabis leading onto other drugs is not a false one, as many who were convicted of the harder drugs, such as coc aine and heroine, all stated that they started out with cannabis, so the argument stands.

That still does not follow that it was cannabis that "led" them. It means they were predisposed to use harder drugs, the cannabis dealer had harder drugs available, they tried it. For (statistically speaking) ALL users, harder drugs are NOT of interest. (Of users of "illegal" substances, over 95% of them use cannabis only.)

I think the war on drugs has been a great success....imo

Before i found it hard to locate certain things at certain times of the day depending what part of the world i was in at the time......

NOW...... no matter where i am .... i'd feel confident i could get me hands on whatever whithin an hour of landing....

Without the world governments help in making these drugs freely available, in certain cases even shipping to relevant countries that could not transport the goods themselves, i feel that getting say Afgan heroin would be next to impossible...... what with all the bullets and stuff.

So i say thank you world leaders for your continued focus on make'n these substances freely available for everyone to get there hands on...... and of course make'n a fair bit of cash in the process is just a by product.....

so..... ta very much

Smoke em if ya got em.....

It's stupid how the rich keep getting away with tax breaks. It makes total sense to keep making the poor pay for stupidity. If people want to kill themselves with drugs I say let them. The government obviously doesn't care about drunk's killing innocent people, yet they care about a bunch of junkies killing themselves. Thank you America, for proving our leaders to be oh so intelligent, and wasting our money on dung.

simple legalize mj - use the money saved to reduce taxes to boost the economy and give the illegals the boot so the jobs can go to the now released inmates.

bam - done, never gonna happen

S&F Drug war is a joke. Just like the war on terror how can you win a war on an emotion? Define the objectives? They cant. Didn't CIA get caught smuggling drugs in during Iran Contra? lol The criminals selling the drugs would have to go get jobs and we would be able to put people in hospitals instead of jail! Compassion for our brothers and sisters and mothers!!! Enough already!

reply to post by alaskan


I disagree that the war has been a failure. From a citizens perspective it is a failure, from the business sector's perspective this has been a blessing. Do you know how much money they are making off of private prisons?

As more and more programs for the poor are eliminated in America due to budget cuts, the only one left standing is the most expensive one of them all: prisons. Increasingly a privatized industry, prisons are also a growth industry in America, with a new prison opening every fifteen days over the last decade. Just in 2003, statistics from the Bureau of Justice recorded the building of prisons in America as costing $60 billion.
Prison Profiteering

While there are budget cuts for schools and public funding prisons are still being built with your taxpayer dollars. You may also include FEMA in here, the 3 meals that they get which some kids can't even afford, and they probably even get a better education that what your kid is getting.

These people live off of 20-30k a year when there are Americans who make that but also have a mortgage, car loans, 3 kids, and 1 dog.

The prison system is a very effective racket just like the drug industry is. I wouldn't be surprised if the government was fattening their pockets through both industries.

The other problem with ending the war on drugs is that the government will not admit they failed, it shows incompetence. This means many prisoners will sue for wrongful detention and the system will eventually go broke. Them admitting they were wrong will mean the end of the world for them.

Originally posted by circuitsports
simple legalize mj - use the money saved to reduce taxes to boost the economy and give the illegals the boot so the jobs can go to the now released inmates.

bam - done, never gonna happen

Give illegals the boot eye? So what, you and your friends will go work in the fields?
I didn't think so.

At least half the posts in this thread start with some variation of "It's not a failure..."

Well no crap it's been a success for the people at the top, but I'm clearly talking about it from the point of view of looking at what it was supposedly meant to accomplish - what the public is told it's supposed to be accomplishing...