Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)

Well you didn't COMPLETELY refute the film, but you definately did a good job showing that the producers used "creative journalism" during the whole "jesus" section. It just goes to show you that most of these "truthers" give you 95% truth, with the other 5% being complete bull#. If the zeitgeist film was full of any sort of complete truth and fact, then i don't believe it would've gotten the mainstream media attention that it did.

reply to post by Dajjal


i feel as though you may be on to something there...kinda like how some gnostic groups believe that god made the earth alongside the devil. what if the sun DOES sit beside an invisible companion, or "deciever" as you so put it. this may very well be the case.

reply to post by kallisti36


somebody says religon is B.S. religous people have to try and prove them wrong, does'nt matter to me, i suppose it only really matters if your religous. i stopped watching the video's, the guys voice was boring and hearing somebody recite passages from the bible to counter claim something is also boring, sorry i just could not carry on without wanting to pull my own nails out, gouge my eyes and twist my nipples.



the reason this does not matter to me is because zeitgeist came out way after i already concluded religon was B.S.
but if religous people need to debunk zeitgeist to keep their faith so be it, it is your choice what you believe in.
i don't see how zeitgeist being wrong or right would change peoples views.

all it did was give non believers something to throw at believers, so all these debunking videos are, are just something believers can throw back at non believers. i doubt people changed their views based on either video.

reply to post by lifeform11


I changed my views after seeing the religious parts of Zeitgeist. So don't be so pessimistic. Sometimes people do change their minds.

Seeing all the atheist stuff on the net and all the things people claimed over the years and all the debates. I didn't really know if Jesus was real or not. Had pretty much stopped going to church. Wasn't sure anymore. Maybe it was all some myth right?

After seeing Zeitgeist I thought WOAH! That's messed up. It was all made up! How could no one have seen this before? How come nobody knew about this? How come nobody ever told me? The only problem is, it left me wanting to know more. Oops!

So, I started doing research. Guess what I found? People have heard all this crap before and the reason nobody ever talked about it is because it wasn't true, wasn't backed up by evidence, and wasn't worth talking about. It was all just one big made up attack on Jesus by people with an alternate agenda. Which is wrong even if you don't believe in Jesus.

It's all based on crap by Freke, Gandy, and Graves and others that don't know what they're doing and intentionally mislead people and continue to do so even when their errors are pointed out to them. And it's not because someone told me. It's cause I read it all myself and found out on my own. I had been LIED TO!

Then after reading the texts to find that there were ancient writers that wrote about Jesus, some of which are talked about in OPs videos, and that Jesus probably existed even though all the atheists will tell you that's not true, and finding out most scholars on the matter ATHEIST or NOT accept that Jesus was most likely a real person and that there's more evidence for Jesus than there are for other historical figures that nobody EVER questions the existence of, well something changed.

It occurred to me that some atheists weren't looking for the truth anymore. Some of them were now trying to make the truth how they saw fit and make me BELIEVE! That if they just wanted to find the truth and prove some old ancient dude didn't exist, well there are a lot easier targets than Jesus with even less evidence backing them up. Why not bring them up? Because they're not looking for truth, they're looking to attack Jesus' message so the person they bring up must be Jesus. Just any old ancient dude won't do!

So, here's the problem. Once I had found out that I had been lied to how am I supposed to trust them again? How I am supposed to believe in the rest of the information that the Zeitgeist maker claims? I know the maker is dishonest now. I can't trust anything they say! It has become obvious to me that they will use lies to make me believe in their agenda if it suits their purpose. So what good is it?

This changes everything. Now I am a changed person. I will never doubt the existence of Jesus again. Their plan backfired. Now nobody can convince me otherwise. Now I know that the people that don't want me to believe have an agenda behind it. They want me to believe their way, true or not.

These people say faith isn't important and you shouldn't just believe, you should look at the evidence. But what are they doing? We have it right here in plain site in these videos. The very same people that tell me that faith isn't important are some of the same people telling lies for the sole purpose of making me believe in something else! Their new age movement! Why? I thought faith wasn't important?

These new agers don't care what the truth is, they just want you to BELIEVE! And many of these new agers are out there are trying to make people get rid of their belief in Jesus so they can install THEIR religion as your new belief.

Don't let them fool you. If you do and you believe them it will be no different. You will still be a slave to someone else's belief and religion and they will control your mind and therefore YOU! It'll just be a different religion and you'll just be following someone else. But no difference! No truth. No freedom! Someone else is still calling the shots.

So, this changes everything. It occurs to me that faith and belief does matter. I may not always understand why, but it must be important if people on BOTH sides are trying influence it. They say because they want me to know the truth! But that is a lie, as we see now. Truth does not matter to these people. As long as I BELIEVE it, even if they have to lie to make that happen.

So yes, my view was changed. I know Jesus was real and I know there are people out there that will lie to convince me otherwise. People that want me to believe something else or anything else. The only question left is why? Why would they do that? And that my ATS friend, is the real conspiracy!

So I hope Freke, Gandy, Graves, Acharya S, and Peter Joseph are happy with what they've done. If it wasn't for them I might still doubt Jesus existed. Thanks to them that will never be the case again and now I'm back at church.

I hope that's what they were going for.

hmmm i said religon is B.S. i never mentioned jesus or god for that matter or what ever the equivlent of god is.
at the very least i believe these concepts were hijacked and used by people as a way to control the masses and turned into religon. that does not mean there is not a god, or there was not a guy called jesus roaming around in the past. but those who created these religons could of very easily put words into his mouth, manipulated the stories here and there or even made them up. ever heard of chinese whispers? i doubt jesus or god wanted us to worship them. but by using them other people could claim they are somehow connected to god and have people worship them, give them money and power etc. and use it as a means to control people or attack people.

o.k. maybe some people changed their minds due to zeitgiest i should not of spoke in absoultes, but in the most part all this proving religon wrong and proving it right is just mud slinging from both sides. i don't see christains canging their view on mass because of stuff like zeitgiest, and i do not see those who think religon is B.S. changing their view on mass just because a religous person says it is real etc.

it should'nt matter to anybody what these films etc say. what you believe will not change what i believe, and what i believe will not change what you believe or at least it should'nt without very solid proof.

by the sounds of your post though you sound like YOU were having trouble knowing what to believe, you were confused, easily swayed. its your choice what you believe, if you base your beliefs of what other people say you will be changing your beliefs everyday.

its the same with any subject. personal experience plays a very large part in my beliefs, not what other people say.

reply to post by lifeform11


You know what? I am perfectly fine with people going after my religion, I don't get defensive and throw temper tantrums because I'm insecure. You don't like Ya'hshuah and think the Bible is hooey? Fine, I will disagree with you, shake the dust off of my feet, and leave praying you turn around. I am fine with intelligent criticism, but Zeitgeist isn't intelligent criticism, it is whitewash and LIES. This I have a huge problem with, because it leads people away from Christ from an intellectually bankrupt position. It presents it's information in such a way to make even well meaning (but uneducated) Christians wonder if everything they've been told is a lie. It's called poisoning the well. First they whitewash Christianity with fantastic (BS) claims and then mix in some truth in part two all in order to push an agenda in part three. Now unlike some people on here, I'm not worried about their anti-Christ Venus Project, all of this stuff is going to happen anyway and I am very much against Chiliastic Christians who try to project the Kingdom of Heaven onto Earth. If the whole world wants to adopt the Venus Project for their future, fine. That's all the proof I need that my home is not of this world, because the Venus Project is unworkable, impossible, stupid, and so much like Brave New World it's creepy. But I will be cold and six feet under before I let these people lead people away from Christ for lies, Chiliasm, and the Kingdom of Anti Christ.

Originally posted by kallisti36

I will disagree with you, shake the dust off of my feet, and leave praying you turn around.

nothing wrong with disagreeing, but praying i turn around? who are you to tell me i need to turn around as though your beliefs are right and mine are wrong? i do not need your prays fullstop thankyou very much.

it is whitewash and LIES. This I have a huge problem with

so do i, but i ignore it, i do not go around telling people what they can and cannot believe and i do not assume my beliefs are right and everybody elses are wrong. but my opinion is religion has been doing what you hate for centuries. so sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

maybe just maybe what we have with these films and documentries is people who have nothing better to do other than prove eachother wrong, and being intolerant of other peoples beliefs and feeling a need to enforce their own beliefs on other people.

i mean for a start even saying i need to turn around proves how dangerous religion is and how it can fool people into thinking they are better or more deserving. now put that hand in hand with weapons and properganda and we will get yet another genocide, in the name of god of course.

it is just of case of people spreading false things complaining of people spreading false things about those false things. if religion was so true, people would never doubt it, and it would not be called a belief, it would be called fact.

reply to post by lifeform11


Heh well I didn't really know to believe them or not. That's why I had to do the research myself. Cause I'm not the kind of person to just believe what other people say blindly like so many others. And that's where the problem arose. The Zeitgeist people were lying. So then I knew what was up and ended up believing the opposite of what they said because I had looked into it for myself.

What I'm afraid of though is most people won't bother. We know how myths spread rapidly and take a long time to dispel.

reply to post by meeneecat


Good luck with this one

Peace

reply to post by kallisti36


Totally *MISLEADING* title subject. I thought it was a MOD enforcing some new ban on Zeitgeist material. Can we get a MOD review of this subject title please?

Originally posted by adjensen
"Nearly everyone" indicates a vast majority, let's call it 90%. "Knows" means that there is no doubt. "almost all rubbish" means that it is fiction.

So, in simple language that you can understand:

"Ninety percent of the world's population is certain, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the Bible is a work of fiction."

Which seems unlikely, given that a third of the world's population is Christian. Ergo, the statement made is either flat out wrong, or is predicated on "nearly everyone" being limited to a census of people that the poster agrees with.

Either way, I stand with my original point, you two are still using this "numbers" game as if a "majority (of Christians)" or "minority (of atheists)" means anything, you still can't make any conclusion as to whether or not the statement "is flat out wrong" based on numbers (technically non-christians are in the majority, 66%, so it isn't predicated on "nearly everyone" being limited to a census of people that the poster agrees with)...whether one is in the majority or minority has no bearing on whether or not something is true, it's oil and water, apples and oranges, Appeal to popularity.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by meeneecat

 

Good luck with this one

Peace

Haha, thanks.

But I think I'm going to have to cut out at this point. It just gets to a point where you can only bang your head on the desk so many times before brain damage sets in, and considering I value my mental capacity...I'm going to have to take the highway.

But thanks anyway.

reply to post by kallisti36


I posted many paragraphs of information where I actually quoted what was said in the video and then actually took a look at primary sources like "the book of the dead" and others to see if what was claimed was true or not, I have seen hardly anyone do this over the course of this thread (a few did), but mostly people have just cited other people's opinion and given their own as if fact...Either way, I did come to a conclusion based on what I learned from the research I did. I found that yes, there were some dis/mis-information, but there was also truth...and for the most part Christianity is based on a variety other myths/religions that came before it, there are also many similarities to other resurrection / sun worshiping cults from around the world...and this was the essential point of the "first part". I fail to see how misinformation on some points, discounts the rest of the facts that are verifiable. Just because there are some inaccuracies, doesn't mean you discount the whole thing. I don't know why my post was ignored over the past couple pages, but apparently no one wants to talk about it? Yes? No?

And by the way, I took some graduate level courses on Christianity and Judaism through antiquity, and from what I studied, and read and researched, I would like to point out that there is very very little evidence for a historical Jesus. Science and history can't prove a negative, so yes, if you want to tell me that there is plenty of evidence for Jesus existing in the historical record, then you need to back that up with proof. I'd like to know, and so would a lot of other history scholars, where this "evidence" is.

Originally posted by meeneecat
whether one is in the majority or minority has no bearing on whether or not something is true, it's oil and water, apples and oranges, Appeal to popularity.

Who said that it had anything to do with whether or not Christianity is true? Is English not your native language, or do you just have an intense dislike of admitting that you're wrong?

Ninety percent of the world's population is certain, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the Bible is a work of fiction."

Please defend the factual basis of that statement, and save the canned "debate speak" that you seem to think buttresses your belief.

Originally posted by kallisti36
...and other such crap in every thread about Ya'hshuah. These lies are propagated by psuedo-archaeologists and charlatans who rely on Biblical, mythological, and historical ignorance to make money.

Get your mythological and historical ignorance in check. First off, ain't no "Ya'hshuah" mentioned in the texts later titled as the Novo Testamentum. Get it straight since we are speaking of a literary character in a Greek text it is only proper to use such literary character's transliterated Koine Greek name; IESOUS, titled CHRISTOS which literally means covered in oil, but is figuratively taken to mean the anointed of God.

And speaking of Greek literary characters, take the example of a Homeric hero, the very title character of the Odyssey, Odysseus. If the epic poem is to be taken with the same faith as later ancient mythological texts, Odysseus performed great feats and went on magical voyages influenced by the gods of the Greeks and such. He was known as Ulysses to the Romans when they attempted to harmonize their myths with those of the Greeks.

Much the same way as the character of Iesous the Oily appears later in the Qur'an as Īsá in a further attempt to borrow from past myths when forging new ones. Where the character of Iesous himself was forged out of the Hebrew mythology.

For the record I have never bought into half of the stuff from the Achyara S./Zeitgeist camp. But the real argument should be. Which myth constructer should be give the most credit for writing the truth?

Was it Homer? artful poetry with a purpose of illustrating morality
Was it Virgil? who at the instigation of Augustus blended the mythology of the Romans with the Greek legends.
Maybe it was the anonymous authors of the Gospels later given the authority of apostles or disciples.
Or perhaps Muhammad, whose followers purportedly memorized his sayings and recorded them later.
Or maybe it was Joseph Smith whose book of Mormon also follows the pattern.

Sure the crafters of christianity most definitely incorporated elements of other religious sentiment into their works. Although those who subscribe to the view that Iesous was based on the mysteries religion tend to stretch the interpretation to fit their premise, but do so with far less intellectual dishonesty than any christian apologist.

edit on 11-4-2011 by Philoveritas because: (no reason given)

Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown.com...

Dr. Chris Forbes on Zeitgeist part 1
www.freethoughtnation.com...

reply to post by GoldenKnight


Trying to get the last word? No you don't.

Mr. Goldenknight here joined the day I posted this thread and has not ceased to promote Acharya S and her nonsense. The links he posted are from her website and uses her dishonest and selective research to justify her dishonest and selective research. This video addresses her rebuttle:
Sorry, it's Chris White again. What can I say? He and Keith Truth do it best and no one else seems to care.

thanks for the videos. i like watching all sides of the story. sorry if im hard to understand. English is not my native language.

This guy hasn't refuted #. I recently found an old book that was written in 1893 that supports this jesus myth and it was right infront of our eyes the whole time. I wonder how it was hidden from us??????? Silly us.